The Demerit System... the Bane of Holiness

[FSSL]

Let's face it: Bible Colleges that use the demerit system do not know how to help our kids grow in holiness. You cannot argue against this point. Demerits are a shortcut to behavior modification and do ZERO to help kids grow in holiness. In fact, they do quite the opposite. They prevent holiness.

For decades, since the onset of the Bible College era, these institutions have established demerit systems to control the behavior of their students. These points are given (often capriciously) when you fail to live up to a code (stated or unstated).

You leave dust on your desk in the dorm room - 10 d's
You get to class 10 minutes late - 20 d's
You get caught holding your girlfriend's hand - 50 d's and a warning that the next infraction is a social.
150 d's means you get expelled (at least at my former institution)

Why have Bible Colleges, institutions established to raise up the next godly generation, relying on techniques more related to Pavlov's experiments than the Bible? Because "giving d's" is much easier and less messy than helping your fellow brother/sister along with wise biblical teaching. You can mark a slip of paper in 10 seconds and be done with those who have gone awry.

Here are some thoughts to help these institutions rethink their Pavlovian ways. Just get rid of your demerit system and start doing the following;

• Revamp your orientation courses. Who cares about a class on proper etiquette? Who needs a class on that subject? How about teaching your new students about the sufficiency of Scripture?
• Have a Bible conference on Colossians 3.
• Have deans that are committed to exemplifying Galatians 6 and working diligently through issues with those who are going wayward.
• GET RID of those tablets! Do not allow students to be bullied by legalist hall monitors who need to learn what the phrase "progressive sanctification" means.

Okay... this is a start... do you have further recommendations?

 

[rsc2a]

• Focus more on teaching your students how to read the Bible instead of what the Bible says.
• (Considering the above Teach principles, not practices.
• Require your students to interact with people not like them. (Compare to "separation".)
• Regarding holiness: focus on spiritual disciplines (e.g. prayer, silence, solitude, worship, service, fellowship, frugality, chastity, confession, etc...), not a rulebook.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Very good points. I would also add to it that such a system has leaked into parenting. In my observance, I have seen parents use rules and discipline to dictate behavior in their children. They don't understand that this process is not the actual TRAINING of kids. It is easier for the parent to give a kid a whack on the behind for throwing his glass against the wall in a tantrum instead of making him clean up the mess, re-paint the wall, take his allowance money, drag him to the store and buy mom a new glass. One takes a minute or two of a parent's time whereas the other is an effort.

There is a difference between discipline and training (although there can be a connection between the two).

 

[Binaca Chugger]

Agreed.  Teach Bible living, not simply compliance to rules.  Some of the rules are silly.  Some don't like being reprimanded for being a slob.

However:
HAC moved away from the demerit system when JS took over.  How is it now?  Any more holy?
GSBC was started without much of a demerit system and they quickly realized the need for stating expected behavior among Christians coming together from different backgrounds.
My kids attended a Christian school that did not have a demerit system - bullying reigned and teachers were powerless to enforce expected behavior.  The public school system had more discipline. 

I am a fan of the demerit system when it is working properly.  Just like the Bible: plainly stated expectations with plainly stated consequences.  Discipline provides opportunity for counsel and recognizes trends in students that are pulling away from Christ-likeness.

 

[raised2walk]

Very good points. I would also add to it that such a system has leaked into parenting. In my observance, I have seen parents use rules and discipline to dictate behavior in their children. They don't understand that this process is not the actual TRAINING of kids. It is easier for the parent to give a kid a whack on the behind for throwing his glass against the wall in a tantrum instead of making him clean up the mess, re-paint the wall, take his allowance money, drag him to the store and buy mom a new glass. One takes a minute or two of a parent's time whereas the other is an effort.

There is a difference between discipline and training (although there can be a connection between the two).

I agree. It's like treating kids like they're toddlers until they're 25. ridic.

However, Smellin Coffee gets 10 demerits for not hanging around the super secret group like he used to.  I miss yelling at you!

 

[JrChurch]

Now you've done it.  Each one of you----go to your rooms. 







I heard that. 

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Very good points. I would also add to it that such a system has leaked into parenting. In my observance, I have seen parents use rules and discipline to dictate behavior in their children. They don't understand that this process is not the actual TRAINING of kids. It is easier for the parent to give a kid a whack on the behind for throwing his glass against the wall in a tantrum instead of making him clean up the mess, re-paint the wall, take his allowance money, drag him to the store and buy mom a new glass. One takes a minute or two of a parent's time whereas the other is an effort.

There is a difference between discipline and training (although there can be a connection between the two).

I agree. It's like treating kids like they're toddlers until they're 25. ridic.

However, Smellin Coffee gets 10 demerits for not hanging around the super secret group like he used to.  I miss yelling at you!

;D

I'm not a Facebooker much. I'm becoming more crusty in my old age!

 

[cave_dweller]

Let's face it: Bible Colleges that use the demerit system do not know how to help our kids grow in holiness. You cannot argue against this point. Demerits are a shortcut to behavior modification and do ZERO to help kids grow in holiness. In fact, they do quite the opposite. They prevent holiness.

For decades, since the onset of the Bible College era, these institutions have established demerit systems to control the behavior of their students. These points are given (often capriciously) when you fail to live up to a code (stated or unstated).

You leave dust on your desk in the dorm room - 10 d's
You get to class 10 minutes late - 20 d's
You get caught holding your girlfriend's hand - 50 d's and a warning that the next infraction is a social.
150 d's means you get expelled (at least at my former institution)

Why have Bible Colleges, institutions established to raise up the next godly generation, relying on techniques more related to Pavlov's experiments than the Bible? Because "giving d's" is much easier and less messy than helping your fellow brother/sister along with wise biblical teaching. You can mark a slip of paper in 10 seconds and be done with those who have gone awry.

Here are some thoughts to help these institutions rethink their Pavlovian ways. Just get rid of your demerit system and start doing the following;

• Revamp your orientation courses. Who cares about a class on proper etiquette? Who needs a class on that subject? How about teaching your new students about the sufficiency of Scripture?
• Have a Bible conference on Colossians 3.
• Have deans that are committed to exemplifying Galatians 6 and working diligently through issues with those who are going wayward.
• GET RID of those tablets! Do not allow students to be bullied by legalist hall monitors who need to learn what the phrase "progressive sanctification" means.

Okay... this is a start... do you have further recommendations?

Any instituion that governs over a body of indiviudals must have rules to create a certain standard of living. People are still going to to do what they want to though. With that being said, there must be rules. If we used your logic then lets just throw away speed limits and traffic laws, because they do not produce safer drivers.

 

[qwerty]

I am going to have to tell this to the judge next time I get a ticket.

 

[FSSL]

Any instituion that governs over a body of indiviudals must have rules to create a certain standard of living. People are still going to to do what they want to though. With that being said, there must be rules. If we used your logic then lets just throw away speed limits and traffic laws, because they do not produce safer drivers.

This is just purely secular.

What proper standards of living are not directed in Scripture? Our standard of living is neither based nor promoted on the whims of a demerit system. Our standards are biblical interaction where each person involved is actively working to encourage sanctification, love for God and appreciation for the body.

There is a certain fear that if the demerit system is taken away, the students will...

1) let their hair grow over their ears
2) leave their bed unmade because they had to rush to class
3) listen to Sovereign Grace music when only Bach is allowed.

 

[cave_dweller]

what are you proposing then? There must be rules.

 

[rsc2a]

what are you proposing then? There must be rules.

• No plagarism.
• No sexual harrasment.
• No criminal behavior.
• No alcohol on campus.
• No tobacco use on campus.
• No opposite-sex overnight guests in the dorms.

You know...the same kind of rules that were given at my State U.

 

[Anchor]

Okay, let's keep some perspective.

Any time you deal with a crowd, large or small, there must be some guidelines (rules for those of you in Rio Linda)

Rules are only good if there is accountability, otherwise they are mere suggestions at best, or, more likely, make a mockery out of anything resembling legitimate authority.

Demerits are a means of accountability.  No more.  No less. Best? Maybe; maybe not.  Depends on the situation. 

It's time to grow up people.  Life is made of rules and accountability.  Deal with it, whether in college, work, home, church, or wherever. 

 

[cave_dweller]

Okay, let's keep some perspective.

Any time you deal with a crowd, large or small, there must be some guidelines (rules for those of you in Rio Linda)

Rules are only good if there is accountability, otherwise they are mere suggestions at best, or, more likely, make a mockery out of anything resembling legitimate authority.

Demerits are a means of accountability.  No more.  No less. Best? Maybe; maybe not.  Depends on the situation. 

It's time to grow up people.  Life is made of rules and accountability.  Deal with it, whether in college, work, home, church, or wherever.

That is basically what I am trying to say here. To question the importance of rules and accountability that is pure sillyness. Try to doing that at your work and see how far you get.

 

[raised2walk]

Very good points. I would also add to it that such a system has leaked into parenting. In my observance, I have seen parents use rules and discipline to dictate behavior in their children. They don't understand that this process is not the actual TRAINING of kids. It is easier for the parent to give a kid a whack on the behind for throwing his glass against the wall in a tantrum instead of making him clean up the mess, re-paint the wall, take his allowance money, drag him to the store and buy mom a new glass. One takes a minute or two of a parent's time whereas the other is an effort.

There is a difference between discipline and training (although there can be a connection between the two).

I agree. It's like treating kids like they're toddlers until they're 25. ridic.

However, Smellin Coffee gets 10 demerits for not hanging around the super secret group like he used to.  I miss yelling at you!

;D

I'm not a Facebooker much. I'm becoming more crusty in my old age!

Bah! =D

 

[FSSL]

Any time you deal with a crowd, large or small, there must be some guidelines (rules for those of you in Rio Linda). Rules are only good if there is accountability, otherwise they are mere suggestions at best, or, more likely, make a mockery out of anything resembling legitimate authority.

Demerits are a means of accountability.  No more.  No less. Best? Maybe; maybe not.  Depends on the situation.

Demerits are the worst means of accountability. Any rule enforced by mere behavior modification is straight from the secular psychoanlaysts. Colossians and Galatians provide excellent basic strategies for accountability. We don't need no Pavlovian method whereby capricious dorm monitors play the penalty game.

The fallout of a demerit system is:
1) Creates and fosters a tattletale system
2) Gives a false indication as to where a person's heart is.
3) Capricious. Immature Christians with demerit pads are destructive.

It's time to grow up people.  Life is made of rules and accountability.  Deal with it, whether in college, work, home, church, or wherever.

Demagoguery much ?

I am talking about the mature approach. It is the biblical approach to helping our brothers and sisters grow in sanctification. A demerit system gives the false impression that hearts are growing in sanctification.

I had ZERO demerits throughout my Bible College experience. However, I can testify  that did not work toward my sanctification. All the rules with behavior modification did was give me a false impression of Christianity that I eventually abandoned.

I never had a demerit system at home, work or anywhere else but at a Bible College.

 

[qwerty]

Lo

Any time you deal with a crowd, large or small, there must be some guidelines (rules for those of you in Rio Linda). Rules are only good if there is accountability, otherwise they are mere suggestions at best, or, more likely, make a mockery out of anything resembling legitimate authority.

Demerits are a means of accountability.  No more.  No less. Best? Maybe; maybe not.  Depends on the situation.

Demerits are the worst means of accountability. Any rule enforced by mere behavior modification is straight from the secular psychoanlaysts. Colossians and Galatians provide excellent basic strategies for accountability. We don't need no Pavlovian method whereby capricious dorm monitors play the penalty game.

The fallout of a demerit system is:
1) Creates and fosters a tattletale system
2) Gives a false indication as to where a person's heart is.
3) Capricious. Immature Christians with demerit pads are destructive.

It's time to grow up people.  Life is made of rules and accountability.  Deal with it, whether in college, work, home, church, or wherever.

Demagoguery much ?

I am talking about the mature approach. It is the biblical approach to helping our brothers and sisters grow in sanctification. A demerit system gives the false impression that hearts are growing in sanctification.

I had ZERO demerits throughout my Bible College experience. However, I can testify  that did not work toward my sanctification. All the rules with behavior modification did was give me a false impression of Christianity that I eventually abandoned.

I never had a demerit system at home, work or anywhere else but at a Bible College.

The are many schools, including military and public schools that utilize a demerit system.

I  realize that you're fixated on the failures of Bible colleges, specifically IFB/KJVO schools, but there are more grievous flaws that could be found than this soap box your on.

You are sounding like one of those folks that don't care much for rules, probably thumb your nose at laws, feel that you shouldn't pay your financial obligations , or don't spank your children because " Any rule enforced by mere behavior modification is straight from the secular psychoanlaysts".

 

[FSSL]

The are many schools, including military and public schools that utilize a demerit system.

I  realize that you're fixated on the failures of Bible colleges, specifically IFB/KJVO schools, but there are more grievous flaws that could be found than this soap box your on.

Sure. I know there are plenty of issues with the IFB/KJVO schools. This thread highlights another one of their failures.

We are 16 replies into this discussion that I have never yet discussed. If that is a soapbox, pray tell... what do we call your posts?

You are sounding like one of those folks that don't care much for rules, probably thumb your nose at laws, feel that you shouldn't pay your financial obligations , or don't spank your children because " Any rule enforced by mere behavior modification is straight from the secular psychoanlaysts".

We have here two competing ideas:

I am issuing a call to Bible Colleges to actually implement Colossians and Galatians as the basis of restoring those in error.

You are determined to focus on demerits to modify behavior.

I am arguing from a biblical perspective.

You are arguing from a secular perspective.

The Apostle Paul was likewise criticized for sounding like one of "those folks that don't care much for rules."

 

[qwerty]

The are many schools, including military and public schools that utilize a demerit system.

I  realize that you're fixated on the failures of Bible colleges, specifically IFB/KJVO schools, but there are more grievous flaws that could be found than this soap box your on.

Sure. I know there are plenty of issues with the IFB/KJVO schools. This thread highlights another one of their failures.

We are 16 replies into this discussion that I have never yet discussed. If that is a soapbox, pray tell... what do we call your posts?

You are sounding like one of those folks that don't care much for rules, probably thumb your nose at laws, feel that you shouldn't pay your financial obligations , or don't spank your children because " Any rule enforced by mere behavior modification is straight from the secular psychoanlaysts".

We have here two competing ideas:

I am issuing a call to Bible Colleges to actually implement Colossians and Galatians as the basis of restoring those in error.

You are determined to focus on demerits to modify behavior.

I am arguing from a biblical perspective.

You are arguing from a secular perspective.

The Apostle Paul was likewise criticized for sounding like one of "those folks that don't care much for rules."

Demerits are a punishment for not following rules. If the rule is to make your bed, then make your bed. If the rule is not to hold hands, you will receive demerits if you are caught. If your child violates the rules of the house, then there is a punishment. If you are caught speeding, you can receive a ticket. If you violate a law, you can go to jail.

The Bible is filed with punishment for those who did not follow the rules. Some punishments are dealt by God, some by man, and some are dealt with by their own hand.

Now it is up to the person if the breaking the rule is worthy of the punishment. Some do not agree with the seat belt laws and have to problem risking the ticket. Some folks want to sneak a kiss on the dating bus and risk the demerits. Some secular students risk expulsion for violations at their schools whether it is academic or athletic.

Life has rules, biblical or secular, rules are rules.

The best advice I heard was from Dr. Jorgensen.  He was telling the guys they were stupid for not making their beds. The punishment for not making your bed ten times is the same as getting caught kissing your girlfriend. Make your bed, kiss your girlfriend.

 

[BandGuy]

Very good points. I would also add to it that such a system has leaked into parenting. In my observance, I have seen parents use rules and discipline to dictate behavior in their children. They don't understand that this process is not the actual TRAINING of kids. It is easier for the parent to give a kid a whack on the behind for throwing his glass against the wall in a tantrum instead of making him clean up the mess, re-paint the wall, take his allowance money, drag him to the store and buy mom a new glass. One takes a minute or two of a parent's time whereas the other is an effort.

There is a difference between discipline and training (although there can be a connection between the two).

I Do both.