The Asbury Revival.

[Baptist Renegade]

According to David they need to get right with God because there was contemporary music.
Kevin wonders why revivals aren't happening in churches that have it all right.

Maybe the churches and people who think they have it all right really don't.

Remember also that GOD IS SOVEREIGN and any true revival COMES FROM GOD! It is not based upon some formula or methodology and whether we have "Done everything right" so God is duty-bound to send revival!
I believe revival can and does take place among individuals and sometimes it has an affect on others around him or her but God is in charge of where or how far a revival will go.

Kent Brandenberg raises some good points about Jack Hyles and I have seen him a good number of times. He does know how to "Work a room!" But most of the time, the auditorium is filled with Hyles sycophants who swoon over anything he says. How would Jack Hyles fare in an auditorium of people who have never heard of him?

 

[IFB X-Files]

How would Jack Hyles fare in an auditorium of people who have never heard of him?

The first time I heard him I had never heard of the man before. I wasn't a Baptist and was attending a Bible church. I was blown away! I had never heard anything like that before in my long, alien life.

 

[Rockson]

During my Navy training in Millington, TN, I attended an IFB Church that showed the "Thief in the Night/Distant Thunder/Mark of the Beast" trilogy and many of my Navy and Marine Corps buddies professed Christ as a result. It also marked the beginning of my time in the IFB world as I started attending regularly and was baptized there. Got my first Scofield Bible while I was there along with a few Larkin books and Ruckman Commentaries!

I have not changed my eschatological position (not by much anyway) but I am much less stressed by those having differing views. I believe that orthodoxy demands the belief in the literal, physical return of Christ. I would like to add to this that Christ's coming is IMMINENT as it has been since his ascension from the Mount of Olives but not sure if such is a requirement for orthodoxy. Those who are IN CHRIST are waiting and longing for his appearing!

And the scripture says,

"Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. 3And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure." 1 Jn 3:2

In 1 Cor 16:22 we see they used the word Maranatha in their writings meaning "O Come Lord" or "The Lord is Coming"

I wonder if we said to each other repeatedly when leaving fellowship....instead of say, "See ya later" if we'd say to each other, "Remember now...the Lord is Coming" or "Maranatha" if we'd find we'd impart a strong word of exhortation which would always linger within our consciousness motivating us to stay pure. Oh Yes Jesus is coming back! Always our minds would be focused on BE READY and Stay Ready!

I think we live in a period now where many would view that as a negative thing....stop trying to keep people in fear! There is however a difference between the healthy fear of the Lord knowing that he is God and we'll be accountable to him as compared to someone walking in paranoia. I think we DO need this good motivation to stay faithful and to keep pure and not to allow the seriousness of meeting the Lord to be thought of as oh yeah I believe that theology but is one allowing it to move them and to inspire them? That is a different question.

So Maranatha my friends...the Lord is Coming!

 

[AverageJoe]

Kent Brandenburg's critique of the Asbury Revival:

"The Asbury leaders say that God brought a revival there starting on February 8. They also say they can’t stop it, since God brought it, even though they did stop the regular meetings there just this last week in part because of a case of measles. As you might comprehend already, I don’t think the Asbury 'Outpouring' or the Jesus Revolution were revival. I don’t need to wait to see on those two. I’m saying right now. They’re not."

Brandenburg says that Jack Hyles was a lot better than Asbury at whipping up a "revival," but he's not impressed with Hyles' revivals, either.

"When Jack Hyles was alive and in his heyday, in many instances I was in meetings where almost everyone in massive auditoriums came forward at his invitation. They streamed forward with only a few people left in their seats. I would think that Hyles could easily vie with any revivalist in his production of effect. If immediate outward manifestations measured revival, Hyles did better than anyone I’ve ever seen and on a more consistent basis. At one point, independent Baptist, revivalist churches in the Hyles movement were the largest churches in the world. Huge crowds gathered to hear a line-up of revivalist preachers. They were pragmatic and doctrinally errant, but people felt intense closeness to God."

This evaluates the Jesus Revolution the Asbury "Revival."

This post evaluates the Jesus Revolution and the Asbury Revival. Men call them great and good. I'm calling them fake and dangerous, worse than nothing.

kentbrandenburg.com

Check out the interesting comments at the bottom. David Thompson says, "I watched a few hours of the livestream so I could give first hand account of what was taking place. I never heard the gospel preached. There was an assumption that everyone there was saved. They emphasized ecumenicalism. And the music was all contemporary. My thoughts were, that if they are truly revived, they will have to reject everything they’re doing right now in order to get right with God."

"Kevin" says, "It’s easy to discredit stuff because we see somethings wrong. But let me ask, why isn’t revival happening in our Independent Baptist churches? Why isn’t revival happening at the churches that have it all right? . . . I happened to tune into one of the services and I heard a very clear Gospel presentation. Much scripture was given. Repentance was even addressed. Would I have done things a little different? Yes! But the fact is Christ was preached."

Kent Brandenburg is usually pretty straight up on things. Having gone to college with him, and his mother, having been my boss....I have to say that he was brought up right! I think he's spot on concerning this.

 

[AverageJoe]

I took Kevin’s response to be in the same vein as the latter portion of yours.

And maybe it’s due to all of my recent participation in the Calvinism threads, but maybe part of the problem in this paradigm is with the people’s expectations that God must do their bidding. So in the cases of Brandenberg and David being somewhat censorious towards those Christians not just like them, regardless of how much the IFB School of Elijah potentially have right or think they have right, their unrealistic expectation seems to be that God moves only on their blueprint cookie-cutting machine.

One thing I can say in your calling Brandenburg's position censorious...that's totally incorrect. He doesn't expect us to be cookie-cutter Christians...but he DOES expect us to be CHRISTIAN. You may say I'm bias because I know him, but I KNOW HIM, and I know that's not his belief, nor his intention.

 

[ALAYMAN]

One thing I can say in your calling Brandenburg's position censorious...that's totally incorrect. He doesn't expect us to be cookie-cutter Christians...but he DOES expect us to be CHRISTIAN. You may say I'm bias because I know him, but I KNOW HIM, and I know that's not his belief, nor his intention.

It is certainly true that we can get an incomplete picture from people that we only know through distant biographical snapshots and I am certainly more than willing to admit that I may have his perspective mischaracterized. All I can do is go by what I read, and my slight bias of having read much of the materials in the realm of Hyles style fundamentalism. Faultfinding, and being critical with things like hair length on man, pants on women, musical genres like CCM, etc, are often times marks of censoriousness. I hope I’m wrong about Kent, but after reading his follow up response to Kevin it is hard for me not to see his perspective as hypercritical.

I only say that at the end of my commentary because it seems that he is not willing to acknowledge that God works through other people that don’t fit that cookie cutter IFB style. I may not care a lot for certain cultural affectations of the Calvary Chapel and Jesus people movement, but I won’t deny that something major happened in American culture that brought many people to Jesus in a way that I would not have foreseen. Whatever happened there to the hippies in the 60s and 70s may not fit his definition of revival, which is a part of the problem in the difficulty of nailing down an absolute definition (which he acknowledges in his own analysis) but I don’t think it can be argued that the Jesus Revolution could not fit within the definition of revival. As we have all said here on this forum about the Asbury situation, well, time will tell. And I happen to agree with Mr. Brandenberg, that it probably will show that this was much Ado about nothing and a flash in the pan. That doesn’t have anything to do with a particular disdain for Wesleyan theological trappings, but more to do with a suspicion for their historical penchant for manufactured revivalism with a little long lasting effect.

 

[illinoisguy]

Ken Ham of Answers in Genesis sent a staff member to report on the Asbury Revival, and this is her report. She is somewhat positive about it, and believes that the students are sincere and that the revival was not manufactured or worked up. Like many other commenters, she says, "time will tell."

"So far, there seems to be room for cautious optimism based on the students’ testimonies. At this point, however, I personally prefer to err on the side of calling the phenomenon a remarkable student worship movement rather than prematurely applying other labels. We will know more by the long-term fruit. . . .

"I think 'cautious optimism' is a good way to describe how we should feel about the worship that is taking place at Asbury. Sadly, though, Asbury (as we learned from viewing its website) teaches theistic evolution and appears to be quite “woke,” promoting CRT-based resources, for example.2

1. While this is certainly not exhaustive, here and here are samples of some of this material from their website.

"Certainly the school as a whole needs a 'revival:' a return to the truth of God’s Word in Genesis! So, as you are reminded about the students and visitors at Asbury on your social media feeds and in conversation, I encourage you to pray for the students, visitors, and the leadership of that school."

Is Revival Breaking Out at Asbury University?

Over the past few days we’ve been asked for our opinion on what’s been called a revival at Asbury University. The questions we’ve received include: is it revival, is it sincere, is it something else?

answersingenesis.org

 

[illinoisguy]

Here is Scott Aniol's take on Asbury. He is a conservative, Calvinist SBC leader and BJU graduate.

"The role of emotion and music in worship today has departed considerably from biblical precept and example. . . . This reality is clearly evident with recent events like the faux revival at Asbury University, the global popularity of worship music of groups like Hillsong, or, frankly, the entire contemporary worship movement. . . .

"John MacArthur summarized the reason well in the recent Shepherd’s Conference Q&A session when he described what happened at Asbury as 'chords over Christ.' 'Shut off the music and see what happens,' he challenged. . . . Charles Finney was among the first to urge those leading his revival services to use music to create 'feelings of spirituality.' Believing it was the preacher’s responsibility to create the proper conditions for revival through raising excitement, a kind of music designed to quickly manufacture such excitement was the ideal stimulant. . . .

"The use of music to manufacture 'feelings of spirituality' is exactly why Hillsong and the whole contemporary worship music movement are so popular—take away the music, and you eliminate the 'feelings of spirituality.' In fact, the Hillsong documentary that came out last year made this very point . . . The use of music to manufacture 'revival' is what drove the events at Asbury—take away the music, and you eliminate the 'revival.' Since when is a bunch of college kids swaying to music for multiple consecutive days revival?"

Christ or Chords? The Manipulated Emotionalism of Hillsong, Asbury, and Pentecostalized Evangelical Worship | G3 Ministries

When Christ was asked about the great commandment in the Law, he answered without hesitation: “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind” (Mt 22:37). True worship of God is centered in our affections for him. As Jonathan Edwards rightly...

g3min.org

 

[illinoisguy]

Kent Brandenburg endorses Scott Aniol's view of Asbury:

This continues a series on recent fake revivals in America.

This is part three of a series about recent attention on fake revivals in America, one the Jesus Revolution and the other the Asbury so-called revival.

kentbrandenburg.com

I watched the earliest posted meeting at Asbury and zoomed through a very long period of Charismatic style emotionalism, repetitious, rock rhythmed, sentimental, superficial, doctrinally ambiguous, led by women, ecstatic music before getting to the “sermon,” which was nothing like Edwards or Whitefield. Maybe the aesthetic and spirit of the so-called worship means nothing to you, but it clashed with the biblical nature of God. It more reminded me of a Corinthian style revival.
If Charles Finney were alive, he would likely be proud of it. Everyone appeared in the egalitarian, postmodern casual, sloppy, and disordered dress (ripped blue jeans, etc.), giving no indication of anyone in authority. The man I heard used a few verses from a modern version, but at best you would be unsure what salvation was. It sounded more like Jesus as therapist. His list of sins that you put into your makeshift cup to give to Jesus included racism and terrorism. No one would even know who Jesus was, why or what it meant to believe in Him.

"I heard no biblical exposition. This is an updated kind of revival for today’s generation, like one of those Bibles with a hippie cover, to show how relevant the Bible could become. All of what I saw and heard conformed to the spirit of the age, would not dare distinguish itself, probably could not do that and be acceptable to that crowd."​

 

[FSSL]

With Aniol, the focus will be on the music. That is his study. He has carved out a narrow perspective on music in worship. We could debate those opinions... One aspect of worship (as Christians have honest/differing opinions on the subject) should not be singled out as the entirety of the revival. Even Macarthur, historically, has had what IFBs consider "strange fire."

Did Brandenburg or Aniol visit the revival? Have they discerned a greater theological perspective than the opinionated anti-contemporary anything issues?

I appreciate Mark Snoeberger's (a thorough theologian) perspective: https://dbts.edu/2023/02/17/what-should-we-make-of-the-events-at-asbury/