The 47% Comment

[Timothy]

Weeks before Romney's 47 percent comment my boss and another coworker got into a debate over people on welfare. My boss said that people on welfare need to work harder .... then nationally we all heard Romney say "... there are 47 percent ... I'll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives."

My boss is a Romney supporter.

Since then I have thought about this 47% and how not everyone on welfare is unemployed. My family takes advantage of WIC, MCHIP, and a few other programs. At my income I am eligible and I am not ashamed to use these programs.

So, for all those who down the so called 47% on welfare or getting government assistance for health insurance I have a message:

Without some of us you could NEVER run your business. If we all were like you and your millions who would do the dirty work? Perhaps some of you should look at your own workforce and increase wages and prove you don't want us on welfare.

I feel better.

 

[samspade]

Actually, I believe that he said 47% of Americans don't pay any income taxes. And that statement is probably true given the fact that many lower income people get back everything they paid in (and sometimes more) as a refund. He didn't say that 47% were on welfare.

 

[Castor Muscular]

Actually, I believe that he said 47% of Americans don't pay any income taxes. And that statement is probably true given the fact that many lower income people get back everything they paid in (and sometimes more) as a refund. He didn't say that 47% were on welfare.

Exactly.  He said 47% don't pay income taxes (and as far as I know, that's true).  Consequently, he wasn't going to get their votes by promising them lower taxes, since they don't pay taxes anyway. 

 

[rsc2a]

I don't know which is worse: assuming anyone getting government assistance is a lazy schmuck or assuming anyone who wants the welfare system reformed is a millionaire business owner who pays slave wages.

 

[Timothy]

The Quote "There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. All right, there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it -- that that's an entitlement. And the government should give it to them. And they will vote for this president no matter what. ... These are people who pay no income tax. ... [M]y job is not to worry about those people. I'll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives."

It seems clear to me that he said more than just 47% of Americans don't pay any income taxes. He said much more than that. Probably anyone who doesn't pay income taxes is eligible for health care or food from the government.

Like I said, I take offense at this mindset I see in my candidate and my employer. I take personal responsibility and care for my and my family's life - just because I am not the other 53% doesn't make me any less a person who cares.

 

[rsc2a]

So you're saying you are part of the 47%...

...and you consider yourself a victim...

:-\

 

[Timothy]

I don't know which is worse: assuming anyone getting government assistance is a lazy schmuck or assuming anyone who wants the welfare system reformed is a millionaire business owner who pays slave wages.

I didn't say slave wages. Okay, I was being a little fanatical about the millionaire business owners comment. But, when my boss said within my office room that people like me on government assistance are lazy, no good, people who suck off the system I take offense - and then to read a quote from someone I was thinking of voting for having the same attitude ... how many other people who pay taxes, vote republican, and have a plush life have such a mindset?

 

[Timothy]

So you're saying you are part of the 47%...

...and you consider yourself a victim...

:-\

Victim of a bias view of who I really am, and others in the same boat.

 

[rsc2a]

I don't know which is worse: assuming anyone getting government assistance is a lazy schmuck or assuming anyone who wants the welfare system reformed is a millionaire business owner who pays slave wages.

I didn't say slave wages. Okay, I was being a little fanatical about the millionaire business owners comment. But, when my boss said within my office room that people like me on government assistance are lazy, no good, people who suck off the system I take offense - and then to read a quote from someone I was thinking of voting for having the same attitude ... how many other people who pay taxes, vote republican, and have a plush life have such a mindset?

You don't think there are people who are on the system doing precisely that? Your grand generalizations are just as out-of-line as the statements you are criticizing.

* I am not at all for dismantling the welfare system but it is in need of major reform. It should be a safety net of last resort for individuals that need it.

 

[rsc2a]

So you're saying you are part of the 47%...

...and you consider yourself a victim...

:-\

Victim of a bias view of who I really am, and others in the same boat.

Irony, thy name is Timothy.

 

[Timothy]

I don't know which is worse: assuming anyone getting government assistance is a lazy schmuck or assuming anyone who wants the welfare system reformed is a millionaire business owner who pays slave wages.

I didn't say slave wages. Okay, I was being a little fanatical about the millionaire business owners comment. But, when my boss said within my office room that people like me on government assistance are lazy, no good, people who suck off the system I take offense - and then to read a quote from someone I was thinking of voting for having the same attitude ... how many other people who pay taxes, vote republican, and have a plush life have such a mindset?

You don't think there are people who are on the system doing precisely that? Your grand generalizations are just as out-of-line as the statements you are criticizing.

* I am not at all for dismantling the welfare system but it is in need of major reform. It should be a safety net of last resort for individuals that need it.

Surely there are people who are abusing the system. I just know that the generalizations from men like my employer and Romney shows a frightening view of what they would/could do to a system that helps me and many many others. Many of these government systems are not just handouts - but programs to help people get what they never could benefit from in the public system.

I personally don't see how I could survive without the government health insurance program for my children. Without it my children would not have the care they get from their doctor. I am not convinced that if I found a way to double my income (along with everyone else) the problem would be solved. You will always need low and medium income jobs in a society.

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=Timothy]Surely there are people who are abusing the system. I just know that the generalizations from men like my employer and Romney shows a frightening view of what they would/could do to a system that helps me and many many others. Many of these government systems are not just handouts - but programs to help people get what they never could benefit from in the public system.[/quote]

And Greece shows a frightening view of what the other extreme would do.

Of course if both sides *cough* would stop acting like the outliers are the norm, then there could be dialogue instead of manufactured indignation.

[quote author=Timothy]I personally don't see how I could survive without the government health insurance program for my children. Without it my children would not have the care they get from their doctor. I am not convinced that if I found a way to double my income (along with everyone else) the problem would be solved. You will always need low and medium income jobs in a society.[/quote]

First: health care ≠ health insurance

Second: they are called teenagers, college students, and those looking for extra income. (as a general rule)

 

[Timothy]

[quote author=Timothy]Surely there are people who are abusing the system. I just know that the generalizations from men like my employer and Romney shows a frightening view of what they would/could do to a system that helps me and many many others. Many of these government systems are not just handouts - but programs to help people get what they never could benefit from in the public system.

And Greece shows a frightening view of what the other extreme would do.

Of course if both sides *cough* would stop acting like the outliers are the norm, then there could be dialogue instead of manufactured indignation.

[quote author=Timothy]I personally don't see how I could survive without the government health insurance program for my children. Without it my children would not have the care they get from their doctor. I am not convinced that if I found a way to double my income (along with everyone else) the problem would be solved. You will always need low and medium income jobs in a society.[/quote]

First: health care ≠ health insurance

Second: they are called teenagers, college students, and those looking for extra income. (as a general rule)
[/quote]

Not true. Many people, along with their spouse, work a job like mine and are the norm. I'm not talking about McDonalds, i'm talking $45,000 per-year income. I don't believe there are enough jobs at $100,000 per-year income out there for the general American population.

And back to the other point, my boss mocks people like me and yet he establishes that $45,000 is acceptable and many times expresses his need for me. Interesting, he will hate my need for assistance on one side of his mouth and yet love my contribution to his company on the other. I am sure he isn't the only one - or am I mistaken that $45,000ish is norm for most folks in America.

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=Timothy]Not true. Many people, along with their spouse, work a job like mine and are the norm. I'm not talking about McDonalds, i'm talking $45,000 per-year income. I don't believe there are enough jobs at $100,000 per-year income out there for the general American population.

And back to the other point, my boss mocks people like me and yet he establishes that $45,000 is acceptable and many times expresses his need for me. Interesting, he will hate my need for assistance on one side of his mouth and yet love my contribution to his company on the other. I am sure he isn't the only one - or am I mistaken that $45,000ish is norm for most folks in America.[/quote]

I-phones are the norm. Cable is the norm. Larger homes are the norm. Car payments are the norm. Dining out is the norm. Credit cards are the norm.

Want me to go on?

*Again - I am not saying that some people aren't struggling. I'm saying many times that struggle is self-inflicted and teaching budgets/sacrifice would be better for them than cutting a check would be.

 

[Biker]

[quote author=Timothy]Surely there are people who are abusing the system. I just know that the generalizations from men like my employer and Romney shows a frightening view of what they would/could do to a system that helps me and many many others. Many of these government systems are not just handouts - but programs to help people get what they never could benefit from in the public system.

And Greece shows a frightening view of what the other extreme would do.

Of course if both sides *cough* would stop acting like the outliers are the norm, then there could be dialogue instead of manufactured indignation.

[quote author=Timothy]I personally don't see how I could survive without the government health insurance program for my children. Without it my children would not have the care they get from their doctor. I am not convinced that if I found a way to double my income (along with everyone else) the problem would be solved. You will always need low and medium income jobs in a society.

First: health care ≠ health insurance

Second: they are called teenagers, college students, and those looking for extra income. (as a general rule)
[/quote]

Not true. Many people, along with their spouse, work a job like mine and are the norm. I'm not talking about McDonalds, i'm talking $45,000 per-year income. I don't believe there are enough jobs at $100,000 per-year income out there for the general American population.

And back to the other point, my boss mocks people like me and yet he establishes that $45,000 is acceptable and many times expresses his need for me. Interesting, he will hate my need for assistance on one side of his mouth and yet love my contribution to his company on the other. I am sure he isn't the only one - or am I mistaken that $45,000ish is norm for most folks in America.
[/quote] Does your boss know you are partaking of that assistance? He may be so aloof he is not aware of the implications of his words. It's too bad he doesn't act more professional in the office, at least avoiding political discussions. It's went that direction in our office and I always politely shut down the conversation.
You are working, you are not lazy. No shame in getting assistance

 

[Biker]

each time your boss brings it up, tell him you need a raise 

 

[Izdaari]

Romney's remark was not that 47% of the folks are on welfare and are lazy bums (the media spun it that way, but it's not what he said), but that 47% are unlikely to vote for him because they are at least to some degree dependent on federal money, and receive more from the government than they pay in. That's probably quite accurate. It wasn't a gaffe and it wasn't Romney hating on poor folks. It was simply the truth. Granted that it is a little shocking to actually hear the truth from a politician. We aren't used to that.

 

[Timothy]

each time your boss brings it up, tell him you need a raise 

He says when money grows on trees ....  :

 

[samspade]

[quote author=Timothy]Surely there are people who are abusing the system. I just know that the generalizations from men like my employer and Romney shows a frightening view of what they would/could do to a system that helps me and many many others. Many of these government systems are not just handouts - but programs to help people get what they never could benefit from in the public system.

And Greece shows a frightening view of what the other extreme would do.

Of course if both sides *cough* would stop acting like the outliers are the norm, then there could be dialogue instead of manufactured indignation.

[quote author=Timothy]I personally don't see how I could survive without the government health insurance program for my children. Without it my children would not have the care they get from their doctor. I am not convinced that if I found a way to double my income (along with everyone else) the problem would be solved. You will always need low and medium income jobs in a society.

First: health care ≠ health insurance

Second: they are called teenagers, college students, and those looking for extra income. (as a general rule)
[/quote]

Not true. Many people, along with their spouse, work a job like mine and are the norm. I'm not talking about McDonalds, i'm talking $45,000 per-year income. I don't believe there are enough jobs at $100,000 per-year income out there for the general American population.

And back to the other point, my boss mocks people like me and yet he establishes that $45,000 is acceptable and many times expresses his need for me. Interesting, he will hate my need for assistance on one side of his mouth and yet love my contribution to his company on the other. I am sure he isn't the only one - or am I mistaken that $45,000ish is norm for most folks in America.
[/quote]

I guess I'm showing my ignorance here, but when did people making $45,000/yr. become qualified for federal assistance?

 

[Timothy]

[quote author=Timothy]Surely there are people who are abusing the system. I just know that the generalizations from men like my employer and Romney shows a frightening view of what they would/could do to a system that helps me and many many others. Many of these government systems are not just handouts - but programs to help people get what they never could benefit from in the public system.

And Greece shows a frightening view of what the other extreme would do.

Of course if both sides *cough* would stop acting like the outliers are the norm, then there could be dialogue instead of manufactured indignation.

[quote author=Timothy]I personally don't see how I could survive without the government health insurance program for my children. Without it my children would not have the care they get from their doctor. I am not convinced that if I found a way to double my income (along with everyone else) the problem would be solved. You will always need low and medium income jobs in a society.

First: health care ≠ health insurance

Second: they are called teenagers, college students, and those looking for extra income. (as a general rule)

Not true. Many people, along with their spouse, work a job like mine and are the norm. I'm not talking about McDonalds, i'm talking $45,000 per-year income. I don't believe there are enough jobs at $100,000 per-year income out there for the general American population.

And back to the other point, my boss mocks people like me and yet he establishes that $45,000 is acceptable and many times expresses his need for me. Interesting, he will hate my need for assistance on one side of his mouth and yet love my contribution to his company on the other. I am sure he isn't the only one - or am I mistaken that $45,000ish is norm for most folks in America.
[/quote]

I guess I'm showing my ignorance here, but when did people making $45,000/yr. become qualified for federal assistance?
[/quote]

Since they take into account household size. If I was all alone in the world, I wouldn't get anything. But, since I have a wife and children .... I am eligible for basically any program available.