Stepping on our own fundamentalist toes...

Regarding the list, most of us can make a pet peeve list about any "group" in this country. From Christians to sports fanatics to Apple only "followers" to your HR department down the hall.

Who cares what the lost thinks about us as long as we are not offensive and are living and speaking the Gospel. We are the victors,  the adopted sons and daughters of the King of kings, not them.

I just do not see how that hypothetical list does anything but emotionally manipulate the weak minded. It is illogical and emotional rhetoric.
 
[quote author=North]Who cares what the lost thinks about us as long as we are not offensive and are living and speaking the Gospel...[/quote]

Because a lot of times the Church is offensive and doing the exact opposite of living and speaking the Gospel...while still giving such ideas lip service?
 
North said:
Regarding the list, most of us can make a pet peeve list about any "group" in this country. From Christians to sports fanatics to Apple only "followers" to your HR department down the hall.

Who cares what the lost thinks about us as long as we are not offensive and are living and speaking the Gospel. We are the victors,  the adopted sons and daughters of the King of kings, not them.

I just do not see how that hypothetical list does anything but emotionally manipulate the weak minded. It is illogical and emotional rhetoric.
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If we have become so critical or so much “better than the world”  that we are no longer able to persuade men to become Christians, then we have forgotten our purpose. 

Matthew 5:13 (KJV)
Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.

Did not the Pharisees live holier lives than most. Did they not, for the most part, keep the law & commandments. Jesus said they were as whited sepulchers & dead mens bones. We must remember our righteousness is as filthy rags in Gods sight.

Matthew 23:17 (KJV)
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
 
I suspect the point is not in the specific list given as in the fact that so many favor the negative "Thou shalt NOT's" over the positive of what we "shalt" do.  God has always set a higher bar in order to encourage folks to reach up instead of smashing down.

There is a Bible basis for this.  The following verses all indicate that we should be more interested in proving or approving of positive things.  Such places the burden of demonstrating the rightness of one's cause rather than the error of those you accuse.

Ro 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
Eph 5:10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.
Php 1:10  That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ;
1Th 5:21  Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
 
PappaBear said:
I suspect the point is not in the specific list given...
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Exactly right.

I don't find myself lamenting guilt regarding the vast majority of items on that list, but the sentiments expressed by the totality of the paragraph reasonably capture the collective error of some of our fundamentalist tendencies.  Too much emphasis on doctrine at the expense of compassion produces a lack of balance.  That doesn't mean we throw out doctrine in favor of some sappy existential subjective concept of "love" which tolerates and appeases sinful lifestyles and choices but it does help us see the accurate picture that God is holy, and must judge sin, but his love tempers his wrath.  That kind of picture of balance, epitomized by grace and charity, is what we ought to be about.  It doesn't mean that we capitulate to the cultural pressures to accommodation and political correctness, but it also doesn't mean we should seek to have a condemnatory attitude towards those who are lost in their sin and deceived by the wiles of the devil.  Our words should minister grace, bringing sinners to the same love and mercy we have found only in Christ. 
 
aleshanee said:
they could have added another one to that list..... "they know us because we drive past homeless people... and refuse to help them for fear we might accidentally give money to a lazy scammer by mistake.... ".... i;ve seen a lot christians try to justify their refusal to help others in need based on that very premise... as if it would be bigger sin to accidentally help someone not in need than it would be to by pass dozens who really do need help and let them go hungry.....
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I confess that I struggle with this very issue.  I grew up in a poor part of town, as a non-Christian, and know how the game often works.  Scammers are everywhere.  I've personally seen numerous attempts by swindlers and con-men.  The church is not immune either.  The same way child-predators know that church is a place to come to gain access to the flock, because churches are often overly desirous (and not very cautious in screening and oversight sometimes) for mininstry workers these types of predators, the street-hustler knows that people often have a compassionate bone.  Without getting too wordy, I'll just say that we need to be wise as serpents and harmless as doves in this area.
 
In the past much of the charity that was given was done through the church or christian organizations. The money was carefully handed out based on ones need and people saw Gods love through the kindness of that ministry. It was much easier to know who needed help & who did not at the local level.

In my opinion we have handed off much of this responsibility to the government & those in need look to government not God for help. We no longer show Gods love through this means and people turn to the world not God for help.

We still can show Gods love through our own actions but on a much small scale. Many organizations like the salvation army forgetting the salvation part of their mission. I think the world see fundamentalists today as people who will judge them not love them. We are right in our doctrine but so wrong in its application. We worry more about how a visitor is dressed or if they have the right bible then if they know Jesus and how we can be a help to them.
 
ALAYMAN said:
PappaBear said:
I suspect the point is not in the specific list given...
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Exactly right.

I don't find myself lamenting guilt regarding the vast majority of items on that list, but the sentiments expressed by the totality of the paragraph reasonably capture the collective error of some of our fundamentalist tendencies.  Too much emphasis on doctrine at the expense of compassion produces a lack of balance.  That doesn't mean we throw out doctrine in favor of some sappy existential subjective concept of "love" which tolerates and appeases sinful lifestyles and choices but it does help us see the accurate picture that God is holy, and must judge sin, but his love tempers his wrath.  That kind of picture of balance, epitomized by grace and charity, is what we ought to be about.  It doesn't mean that we capitulate to the cultural pressures to accommodation and political correctness, but it also doesn't mean we should seek to have a condemnatory attitude towards those who are lost in their sin and deceived by the wiles of the devil.  Our words should minister grace, bringing sinners to the same love and mercy we have found only in Christ.
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Well said and amen. We could close the thread on your statement.
 
aleshanee said:
i wonder, sometimes, if a few in fundamentalism are not confused about which of those two issues is the one most important to be absolutely right about... every time........... ... i;m hoping it;s only a few... ???.....  but when their strongest, and most fervent, arguments are made in support of keeping their money in their pocket... (to the point of allowing a dozen needy souls to go hungry rather than risk helping one scammer by mistake...)..... in contrast to not even showing up in defense of keeping sexual predators and registered sex offenders away from their former victims... (and also their own children who are equally vulnerable)... by requiring those "reformed" predators to attend a separate church service or a different church.... .... it makes me wonder even more......  :-\ ......
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Well, it's easier for religious folk to rail against homos and such than it is to be proactive and actually give of themselves.  Condemation doesn't cost anything, but getting to know the homeless dude and build a relationship with him is messy business.
 
If we’re not recognized by our love, how are we recognized? Here’s a list I’ve compiled:

•They know us because we hate homosexuals.
•They know us because we shared that Facebook image. You know the one, “Share in 30 seconds or you don’t love Jesus.”
•They love us because they’ll have to pry our guns from our “cold, dead hands.”
•They know us because we believe in a young earth.
•They know us because we are Republicans.
•They know us because we are Democrats.
•They know us because we think most science is bunk.
•They know us because of the tee shirts we wear.
•They know us because we’ve told them recently they’re going to burn in hell.
•They know us because we go to Church every Sunday.
•They know us because we roll our eyes if we see someone drinking a beer
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Personally, I believe those are the fall back arguments for those who wish to demean evangelicals in this culture.
I think they have served to cause some to back away from telling the truth in love lest they be so stereotyped.
It's like political conservatives being labeled as homophobic, racist, women hating....wanting dirty air and water to be forced on our children.

But, I'm sure that's just me..... :)
 
aleshanee said:
especially when they sneeze on you or cough up stuff while you are handing them a bag of mcdonalds hamburgers and french fries.....  :-\ ...  but on the bright side.... they are often very nice..... they sometimes beg me to sit down with them and share the french fries....  ??? ..... i want to tell them it wouldn;t go well with the acrid ammonia smell coming from their clothes from instead i just tell them no thanks i had lunch already... ;)....

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I've confessed already, I <somewhat> have a guilty conscience regarding my lack of action and compassion/charity, but, I do have a few instances where the Lord has helped me to reach out.  Unfortunately, in one of those episodes, I too picked a guy up who was holding a sign about needing help and food.  I had just picked up some breakfast and after he gave me a long story about his misfortune I offered it to him.  He turned it down. :(  I would think that if he was homeless and <often> hungry that he'd at least have taken it and kept it for a later meal.
 
aleshanee said:
there are many dfferent stories and reasons as why people are on the street.... some of the people my church friends and i come across on the street are mentally ill....  and there is one who has daily seizures due to a head injury he sustained years ago....
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Have you ever been tempted to go up to one of those people walking the streets, babbling and yelling, and (attempt to) cast out his/her demons?  I have.  But I've never had the nerve to do so.  I'm a coward.  I'd be afraid of looking and feeling ridiculous if it fails, regardless of whether it failed for spiritual reasons, God's will, or because his/her behavior had nothing to do with demons. 

 
aleshanee said:
there are many dfferent stories and reasons as why people are on the street.... some of the people my church friends and i come across on the street are mentally ill....  and there is one who has daily seizures due to a head injury he sustained years ago.... in those kinds of cases they are usually on the street because their own family couldn;t deal with caring for them anymore..... .. we are no band of mother teresas by any means.... but we just try to do what we can....  and i look at them and see where i would be if i didn;t have the support of my adopted family like i do........  but i know what you mean about the scammers....... we come across them too......  they say they should be able to know us by our love.... but we sometimes recognize them by their shoes....... homeless and truly needy people are not usually wearing expensive designer sneakers..... but there is another kind of evil on the street that is even worse than the scammer.... .. they show up on the street at night right after social security checks are issued and beat up them rob the homeless people who are receiving them......  it;s pretty sad.....  ...
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It's sad enough that there are people in such unenviable positions, but almost incomprehensible that there is a segment of slime that would prey upon the weak and vulnerable in such a manner.  The devil truly does go about as a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour.


And good on you for seeing a need/ministry and stepping up to the plate, particularly one that most don't want to dirty themselves with.
 
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