Standing Someone Up in Chapel

[Bruh]

Ray Young and Church Education.

Ray Young and Jack Schaap taught Church Education. Church Ed as it was called was a five day a week class that met immediately after chapel at 12:10 pm. You had to take it for 4 years in order to graduate.

CE was easily the largest class at HAC. Probably 700-800 students every semester. With that many students Bro. Young had to develop a way of answering the students questions about attendance, grading, assignments or follow up questions to what was taught in class in a way that was fair to everyone. As the lead teacher Ray Young developed a process to meet with and answer students questions.

From 7:15 am to 7:45 am every Tuesday a student who had a question regarding Church Education could come to Ray Young's college office and stand in line and meet with the class teacher. If you did not want to or were unable to stand in line from 7:15 am to 7:45 am on Tuesday you could put your question in writing, drop it in the Church Education box at the South Hallway Desk and expect an answer within 14 business days. (To this day there are probably students still waiting for answers to Church Ed questions)
It wasn't a great system but it was what it was.

Now at the beginning of each semester of Church Education, Ray Young would take a good amount of time to warn the class not to ask him Church Ed related questions at any time except from 7:15 am to 7:45 am on Tuesday. We were warned that bad things would happen if we did. Bad things. Really bad things. We were warned not to talk to him, his lead secretary, Miss Laurie Weir, or any of the 11 other secretaries that worked for him about Church Ed matters. His reasoning was if he stopped for one he would have to stop for all and he wanted to treat everyone fairly.

Now Ray Young was not mean about this. As a freshman I once passed him after class in the hallway. I stopped him, said hello, and asked him a follow up question about something he had just taught.  In mid sentence I realized what I was doing, stopped and apologized. He chuckled and very kindly and graciously answered the question. So there was nothing unkind about the policy and when I slipped up he was very nice about it.

But there were others. There was a junior named Howard (not his real name). Howard had a question regarding his grade in Church Education grade. Howard must not have been willing to stand in line at Bro. Young's office door from 7:15 am to 7:45 am on Tuesday. And I'm guessing he had not waited 14 business days for a written answer to be returned to him. Howard decided to stop Miss Laurie Weir in the hallway and ask her his question. Now Miss Weir was one of the kindest, nicest people at HAC. So Howard must have really pestered her for an answer.

The next day as Church Ed class started Bro. Young stepped to the podium. He made several announcements and then said he needed to take care of something. He called Howard by name and asked him to stand. After Howard stood Bro. Young informed the class that Howard had persistently asked Miss Weir a question. He reminded Howard that it was a violation of class rules to ask questions anytime other that 7:15 am to 7:45 am on Tuesday. He told Howard that since he could not follow the rules that everyone else followed that he would personally answer his question right then and there. He said, "Howard, the answer to your question is yes." Red faced and embarrassed, Howard sat down.

Now should Ray Young have handled it that way? I don't know. I know this. Howard is an alumnus but I don't think he has much nice to say about Ray Young. And today Howard is quite wealthy. My guess is that when he receives alumni fundraising letters they go into the circular file.

I had no idea that our college employees were behaving in this manner, and for so many years this has gone on.

It is easy to see why we have used up so much good will that many colleges count on in their alumni.

We need friends not enemies.

I am very sorry that we employed so many boneheads.

It's what happens when one man runs everything.

Just one more thing for which we need to seek forgiveness from God and man.

Soooooooooo, not a one man show any longer at this church I am assuming? 

 

[Bruh]

I heard this from a man that attend HAC in the 90's.

It was night chapel, I believe, and the whole chapel went to the alter except this one man that is telling me the story. 

While he is the only one not at the alter the preacher begins to let this guy have it for being the only one not at the alter.  He told me that he was determined not to go to the alter. 

He said after about 10 or so minutes the preacher ended chapel.

This guy tells me that when he graduated, he and his wife went to the college to pick up something, he said he hated that place so much that he made his wife go in and get whatever is was by herself.  LOL!!! 

 

[bgwilkinson]

Ray Young and Church Education.

Ray Young and Jack Schaap taught Church Education. Church Ed as it was called was a five day a week class that met immediately after chapel at 12:10 pm. You had to take it for 4 years in order to graduate.

CE was easily the largest class at HAC. Probably 700-800 students every semester. With that many students Bro. Young had to develop a way of answering the students questions about attendance, grading, assignments or follow up questions to what was taught in class in a way that was fair to everyone. As the lead teacher Ray Young developed a process to meet with and answer students questions.

From 7:15 am to 7:45 am every Tuesday a student who had a question regarding Church Education could come to Ray Young's college office and stand in line and meet with the class teacher. If you did not want to or were unable to stand in line from 7:15 am to 7:45 am on Tuesday you could put your question in writing, drop it in the Church Education box at the South Hallway Desk and expect an answer within 14 business days. (To this day there are probably students still waiting for answers to Church Ed questions)
It wasn't a great system but it was what it was.

Now at the beginning of each semester of Church Education, Ray Young would take a good amount of time to warn the class not to ask him Church Ed related questions at any time except from 7:15 am to 7:45 am on Tuesday. We were warned that bad things would happen if we did. Bad things. Really bad things. We were warned not to talk to him, his lead secretary, Miss Laurie Weir, or any of the 11 other secretaries that worked for him about Church Ed matters. His reasoning was if he stopped for one he would have to stop for all and he wanted to treat everyone fairly.

Now Ray Young was not mean about this. As a freshman I once passed him after class in the hallway. I stopped him, said hello, and asked him a follow up question about something he had just taught.  In mid sentence I realized what I was doing, stopped and apologized. He chuckled and very kindly and graciously answered the question. So there was nothing unkind about the policy and when I slipped up he was very nice about it.

But there were others. There was a junior named Howard (not his real name). Howard had a question regarding his grade in Church Education grade. Howard must not have been willing to stand in line at Bro. Young's office door from 7:15 am to 7:45 am on Tuesday. And I'm guessing he had not waited 14 business days for a written answer to be returned to him. Howard decided to stop Miss Laurie Weir in the hallway and ask her his question. Now Miss Weir was one of the kindest, nicest people at HAC. So Howard must have really pestered her for an answer.

The next day as Church Ed class started Bro. Young stepped to the podium. He made several announcements and then said he needed to take care of something. He called Howard by name and asked him to stand. After Howard stood Bro. Young informed the class that Howard had persistently asked Miss Weir a question. He reminded Howard that it was a violation of class rules to ask questions anytime other that 7:15 am to 7:45 am on Tuesday. He told Howard that since he could not follow the rules that everyone else followed that he would personally answer his question right then and there. He said, "Howard, the answer to your question is yes." Red faced and embarrassed, Howard sat down.

Now should Ray Young have handled it that way? I don't know. I know this. Howard is an alumnus but I don't think he has much nice to say about Ray Young. And today Howard is quite wealthy. My guess is that when he receives alumni fundraising letters they go into the circular file.

I had no idea that our college employees were behaving in this manner, and for so many years this has gone on.

It is easy to see why we have used up so much good will that many colleges count on in their alumni.

We need friends not enemies.

I am very sorry that we employed so many boneheads.

It's what happens when one man runs everything.

Just one more thing for which we need to seek forgiveness from God and man.

Soooooooooo, not a one man show any longer at this church I am assuming?

The By-Laws of the mother nonprofit corporation, First Baptist Church of Hammond, Inc., were rewritten to reflect the realities of ownership of and control by the body of Christ, the ones called out, rather than the Man of God dictator, as before and in conformity to the Indiana Nonprofit Corporation Act of 1991.

The called out ones over the age of 18, elect the servants who than represent the body in the control and allocation of the assets of the Body.

The senior pastor is elected by the body to serve as senior pastor and president of the nonprofit corporation and not as the benevolent dictator who uses the corporate assets, as if they were contained within his own personal piggy bank, doling them out strategically and sparingly wherewith he maintains personal control of the Body of Christ.

First Baptist Church of Hammond, Inc. was incorporated as a nonprofit Indiana corporation in 1913.

All other corporations are wholly owned subsidiaries of the mother corporation.

We strive to return to that reality and exercise our fiduciary responsibilities and maintain due diligence in our continuing operations.

I hope and pray we have learned from the past and do not repeat it.

 

[Bravo]

With the new rules and constitution do you think we should just have had a whole new deacon board election to go with it as well?

 

[bgwilkinson]

With the new rules and constitution do you think we should just have had a whole new deacon board election to go with it as well?

It was hard enough to get the required votes to pass, the vote was much closer than it might have appeared.  Adding a complete turnover in all areas would have doomed the new by-laws, they would not have passed.

Replacing all the leaders would have necessitated replacing all the members of the Body first.

The leaders all come from the Body.

 

[Bravo]

With the new rules and constitution do you think we should just have had a whole new deacon board election to go with it as well?

It was hard enough to get the required votes to pass, the vote was much closer than it might have appeared.  Adding a complete turnover in all areas would have doomed the new by-laws, they would not have passed.

Replacing all the leaders would have necessitated replacing all the members of the Body first.

The leaders all come from the Body.

I don't know that I agree with that but okay, I can respect your opinion. I personally voted "No" on the new constitution.

 

[bgwilkinson]

With the new rules and constitution do you think we should just have had a whole new deacon board election to go with it as well?

It was hard enough to get the required votes to pass, the vote was much closer than it might have appeared.  Adding a complete turnover in all areas would have doomed the new by-laws, they would not have passed.

Replacing all the leaders would have necessitated replacing all the members of the Body first.

The leaders all come from the Body.

I don't know that I agree with that but okay, I can respect your opinion. I personally voted "No" on the new constitution.

Of course this is how I see it.

I also do not agree with all that was done, but it was lightyears ahead of where we were.

I am satisfied that what was done was closer to right than at any time in the last several decades before that.

Things had not been handled properly for many years as many of Bro. Hyles failures would have been on display for all to see.

It is amazing we were able to make the changes that were made, considering our history.

 

[nib1066]

Why is these kinda abuses allowed. Why don't people rise up & say enough is enough.

These kind of stories are repeated in IFB colleges & christian schools all over the country.

WHY IS IT PERMITTED TO CONTINUE? DO PASTORS & PARENTS NOT KNOW OR DO THEY THINK ITS OK.

MY DAD WOULD HAVE PUT A BULLET IN ANY TEACHER WHO ABUSED ME PHYSICALLY. HE WAS A LITTLE OLD SCHOOL THOUGH.

How many young adults have walked away from the church because of this type of mental & physical abuse.

Can you tell us at what other colleges this kind of thing happens at?

I know of many stories like these from West Coast Baptist College.

 

[Tennessean]

Why is these kinda abuses allowed. Why don't people rise up & say enough is enough.

These kind of stories are repeated in IFB colleges & christian schools all over the country.

WHY IS IT PERMITTED TO CONTINUE? DO PASTORS & PARENTS NOT KNOW OR DO THEY THINK ITS OK.

MY DAD WOULD HAVE PUT A BULLET IN ANY TEACHER WHO ABUSED ME PHYSICALLY. HE WAS A LITTLE OLD SCHOOL THOUGH.

How many young adults have walked away from the church because of this type of mental & physical abuse.

Can you tell us at what other colleges this kind of thing happens at?

I know of many stories like these from West Coast Baptist College.

Would you share some. I thought that this was something that was uniqu to HAC.

 

[sword]

Why is these kinda abuses allowed. Why don't people rise up & say enough is enough.

These kind of stories are repeated in IFB colleges & christian schools all over the country.

WHY IS IT PERMITTED TO CONTINUE? DO PASTORS & PARENTS NOT KNOW OR DO THEY THINK ITS OK.

MY DAD WOULD HAVE PUT A BULLET IN ANY TEACHER WHO ABUSED ME PHYSICALLY. HE WAS A LITTLE OLD SCHOOL THOUGH.

How many young adults have walked away from the church because of this type of mental & physical abuse.

Can you tell us at what other colleges this kind of thing happens at?

I know of many stories like these from West Coast Baptist College.

Would you share some. I thought that this was something that was uniqu to HAC.

I heard a number of stories about Roger Voegtlin & Fairhaven Baptist college. These stories were also common on the old FFF. Most of the were from the 80's & 90's.

 

[sword]

The Old FFF had many stories about Bob Grey, Tom Neal & Jim Vinyard's schools as well.

Maybe those days are gone for good.