Standing Someone Up in Chapel

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Tennessean

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A practice that was unique in the early years of Hyles Anderson College was when a staff member would make a young man "Stand Up" in a class, a chapel, a split chapel, or some other service and be verbally berated for something that the staff member felt he did that was wrong. The practice seemed to stop when Jim Vinyard and Melvin Meister left. About the time I came along as a freshman the practice was only used to some extent by Ray Young and Roger Casteel. Casteel usually did it on his night bus.

Now whether these young men deserved to be stood up and verbally humiliated in front of their peers I don't know. Usually humiliating someone publically leads to a bitter person who wants revenge, and HAC sure turned out a lot of bitter people over the years. So who knows? After 20 years of pastoring, when I hear the stories of Melvin Meister in split chapel I wonder how doing that helps prepare a young man for the ministry.

So HACer nation, how about some stories of some good chewing outs by the staff members of HAC.

One incident per post.

And please be careful using names.
 
This one took place in a split chapel with Meister.  Someone turned a guy in for not standing when a gal was getting ready to sit as his table during lunch.  Of course, it could have been a fact, or someone who had it in for the guy lied about him.

Meister sais, "So-and-so stand up".  The guy stood up.  Meister said, "Sit down".  The guy sat down.  Meister had him stand up and sit down for most of the service.  He also verbally ripped him apart.
 
Here is another Meister Split Chapel story.  When it was time for flu shots the college would encourage everyone to get one.  Most did, but there were a few who did not for one reason or another.  In split chapel Meister would have everyone stand who got a flu shot.  They would be dismissed.  He would then have those stand that would be willing to get a flu shot.  They were dismissed.  The nurses would be set up outside the gym.

Meister would then begin to rip away at those left in the gym.  A few would be guilted and go get their shot.  Meister fully unloaded on those that were left.  Finally he would run out of gas and dismiss the rest.
 
Ray Young and Church Education.

Ray Young and Jack Schaap taught Church Education. Church Ed as it was called was a five day a week class that met immediately after chapel at 12:10 pm. You had to take it for 4 years in order to graduate.

CE was easily the largest class at HAC. Probably 700-800 students every semester. With that many students Bro. Young had to develop a way of answering the students questions about attendance, grading, assignments or follow up questions to what was taught in class in a way that was fair to everyone. As the lead teacher Ray Young developed a process to meet with and answer students questions.

From 7:15 am to 7:45 am every Tuesday a student who had a question regarding Church Education could come to Ray Young's college office and stand in line and meet with the class teacher. If you did not want to or were unable to stand in line from 7:15 am to 7:45 am on Tuesday you could put your question in writing, drop it in the Church Education box at the South Hallway Desk and expect an answer within 14 business days. (To this day there are probably students still waiting for answers to Church Ed questions)
It wasn't a great system but it was what it was.

Now at the beginning of each semester of Church Education, Ray Young would take a good amount of time to warn the class not to ask him Church Ed related questions at any time except from 7:15 am to 7:45 am on Tuesday. We were warned that bad things would happen if we did. Bad things. Really bad things. We were warned not to talk to him, his lead secretary, Miss Laurie Weir, or any of the 11 other secretaries that worked for him about Church Ed matters. His reasoning was if he stopped for one he would have to stop for all and he wanted to treat everyone fairly.

Now Ray Young was not mean about this. As a freshman I once passed him after class in the hallway. I stopped him, said hello, and asked him a follow up question about something he had just taught.  In mid sentence I realized what I was doing, stopped and apologized. He chuckled and very kindly and graciously answered the question. So there was nothing unkind about the policy and when I slipped up he was very nice about it.

But there were others. There was a junior named Howard (not his real name). Howard had a question regarding his grade in Church Education grade. Howard must not have been willing to stand in line at Bro. Young's office door from 7:15 am to 7:45 am on Tuesday. And I'm guessing he had not waited 14 business days for a written answer to be returned to him. Howard decided to stop Miss Laurie Weir in the hallway and ask her his question. Now Miss Weir was one of the kindest, nicest people at HAC. So Howard must have really pestered her for an answer.

The next day as Church Ed class started Bro. Young stepped to the podium. He made several announcements and then said he needed to take care of something. He called Howard by name and asked him to stand. After Howard stood Bro. Young informed the class that Howard had persistently asked Miss Weir a question. He reminded Howard that it was a violation of class rules to ask questions anytime other that 7:15 am to 7:45 am on Tuesday. He told Howard that since he could not follow the rules that everyone else followed that he would personally answer his question right then and there. He said, "Howard, the answer to your question is yes." Red faced and embarrassed, Howard sat down.

Now should Ray Young have handled it that way? I don't know. I know this. Howard is an alumnus but I don't think he has much nice to say about Ray Young. And today Howard is quite wealthy. My guess is that when he receives alumni fundraising letters they go into the circular file.
 
I try to have a balanced approach to this type of behavior.  On one hand, some HAC students were the dumbest college students on the face of the earth.  And I'm not talking about academically dumb.  I'm talking about a lack of "horse sense".  These were those who earned and deserved the title of "Hacker".  I can't imagine what it would be like as a staff member to have to deal with these idiots on a daily basis.  It would make you want to come unglued on someone.

On the other hand, some HAC staff members felt that the very ground upon which they walked should be worshiped.  They liked the "little big man" persona.  They liked to flex their muscles to the whooping and hollering of those Hackers whom I referenced in the first paragraph.  I would put Jim Vineyard and Roger Casteel in this category.

I always tried to measure each event by knowing the person and the staff member who were involved in the story.
 
The story about Howard is the only one I know regarding Ray Young publically standing someone up. But they say he could rip with the best of them in private. And he had some colossal boneheads.

There was the former FFF poster who sprayed all his bus kids hair with orange Krylon.

There was the bus captain who decided to have a candy scramble on the bus. Literally, "On the bus," while it was moving.

And the bus captains who were late and unloaded their busses away from where they were supposed to.

Good times.
 
Tennessean said:
Ray Young and Church Education.

Ray Young and Jack Schaap taught Church Education. Church Ed as it was called was a five day a week class that met immediately after chapel at 12:10 pm. You had to take it for 4 years in order to graduate.

CE was easily the largest class at HAC. Probably 700-800 students every semester. With that many students Bro. Young had to develop a way of answering the students questions about attendance, grading, assignments or follow up questions to what was taught in class in a way that was fair to everyone. As the lead teacher Ray Young developed a process to meet with and answer students questions.

From 7:15 am to 7:45 am every Tuesday a student who had a question regarding Church Education could come to Ray Young's college office and stand in line and meet with the class teacher. If you did not want to or were unable to stand in line from 7:15 am to 7:45 am on Tuesday you could put your question in writing, drop it in the Church Education box at the South Hallway Desk and expect an answer within 14 business days. (To this day there are probably students still waiting for answers to Church Ed questions)
It wasn't a great system but it was what it was.

Now at the beginning of each semester of Church Education, Ray Young would take a good amount of time to warn the class not to ask him Church Ed related questions at any time except from 7:15 am to 7:45 am on Tuesday. We were warned that bad things would happen if we did. Bad things. Really bad things. We were warned not to talk to him, his lead secretary, Miss Laurie Weir, or any of the 11 other secretaries that worked for him about Church Ed matters. His reasoning was if he stopped for one he would have to stop for all and he wanted to treat everyone fairly.

Now Ray Young was not mean about this. As a freshman I once passed him after class in the hallway. I stopped him, said hello, and asked him a follow up question about something he had just taught.  In mid sentence I realized what I was doing, stopped and apologized. He chuckled and very kindly and graciously answered the question. So there was nothing unkind about the policy and when I slipped up he was very nice about it.

But there were others. There was a junior named Howard (not his real name). Howard had a question regarding his grade in Church Education grade. Howard must not have been willing to stand in line at Bro. Young's office door from 7:15 am to 7:45 am on Tuesday. And I'm guessing he had not waited 14 business days for a written answer to be returned to him. Howard decided to stop Miss Laurie Weir in the hallway and ask her his question. Now Miss Weir was one of the kindest, nicest people at HAC. So Howard must have really pestered her for an answer.

The next day as Church Ed class started Bro. Young stepped to the podium. He made several announcements and then said he needed to take care of something. He called Howard by name and asked him to stand. After Howard stood Bro. Young informed the class that Howard had persistently asked Miss Weir a question. He reminded Howard that it was a violation of class rules to ask questions anytime other that 7:15 am to 7:45 am on Tuesday. He told Howard that since he could not follow the rules that everyone else followed that he would personally answer his question right then and there. He said, "Howard, the answer to your question is yes." Red faced and embarrassed, Howard sat down.

Now should Ray Young have handled it that way? I don't know. I know this. Howard is an alumnus but I don't think he has much nice to say about Ray Young. And today Howard is quite wealthy. My guess is that when he receives alumni fundraising letters they go into the circular file.
Click to expand...

I was at hac from 88 - 92. This happened to a guy exactly like you said but his name wasn't Howard. I can't remember his name but would recognize it in a second. He was alwasy kind of a smart alek but I still saw no need to waste 5 minutes in a class of 800 people with such drivel. But, then again, we wasted a lot of class time at hac. Mrs. Evans classes perhaps? ;)
 
Tennessean said:
Ray Young and Church Education.

Ray Young and Jack Schaap taught Church Education. Church Ed as it was called was a five day a week class that met immediately after chapel at 12:10 pm. You had to take it for 4 years in order to graduate.

CE was easily the largest class at HAC. Probably 700-800 students every semester. With that many students Bro. Young had to develop a way of answering the students questions about attendance, grading, assignments or follow up questions to what was taught in class in a way that was fair to everyone. As the lead teacher Ray Young developed a process to meet with and answer students questions.

From 7:15 am to 7:45 am every Tuesday a student who had a question regarding Church Education could come to Ray Young's college office and stand in line and meet with the class teacher. If you did not want to or were unable to stand in line from 7:15 am to 7:45 am on Tuesday you could put your question in writing, drop it in the Church Education box at the South Hallway Desk and expect an answer within 14 business days. (To this day there are probably students still waiting for answers to Church Ed questions)
It wasn't a great system but it was what it was.

Now at the beginning of each semester of Church Education, Ray Young would take a good amount of time to warn the class not to ask him Church Ed related questions at any time except from 7:15 am to 7:45 am on Tuesday. We were warned that bad things would happen if we did. Bad things. Really bad things. We were warned not to talk to him, his lead secretary, Miss Laurie Weir, or any of the 11 other secretaries that worked for him about Church Ed matters. His reasoning was if he stopped for one he would have to stop for all and he wanted to treat everyone fairly.

Now Ray Young was not mean about this. As a freshman I once passed him after class in the hallway. I stopped him, said hello, and asked him a follow up question about something he had just taught.  In mid sentence I realized what I was doing, stopped and apologized. He chuckled and very kindly and graciously answered the question. So there was nothing unkind about the policy and when I slipped up he was very nice about it.

But there were others. There was a junior named Howard (not his real name). Howard had a question regarding his grade in Church Education grade. Howard must not have been willing to stand in line at Bro. Young's office door from 7:15 am to 7:45 am on Tuesday. And I'm guessing he had not waited 14 business days for a written answer to be returned to him. Howard decided to stop Miss Laurie Weir in the hallway and ask her his question. Now Miss Weir was one of the kindest, nicest people at HAC. So Howard must have really pestered her for an answer.

The next day as Church Ed class started Bro. Young stepped to the podium. He made several announcements and then said he needed to take care of something. He called Howard by name and asked him to stand. After Howard stood Bro. Young informed the class that Howard had persistently asked Miss Weir a question. He reminded Howard that it was a violation of class rules to ask questions anytime other that 7:15 am to 7:45 am on Tuesday. He told Howard that since he could not follow the rules that everyone else followed that he would personally answer his question right then and there. He said, "Howard, the answer to your question is yes." Red faced and embarrassed, Howard sat down.

Now should Ray Young have handled it that way? I don't know. I know this. Howard is an alumnus but I don't think he has much nice to say about Ray Young. And today Howard is quite wealthy. My guess is that when he receives alumni fundraising letters they go into the circular file.
Click to expand...

I had no idea that our college employees were behaving in this manner, and for so many years this has gone on.

It is easy to see why we have used up so much good will that many colleges count on in their alumni.

We need friends not enemies.

I am very sorry that we employed so many boneheads.

It's what happens when one man runs everything.

Just one more thing for which we need to seek forgiveness from God and man.
 
Very interesting how some people interpret the words, "f your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone..."
 
The very first time it happened in chapel was either the second or third year, at the beginning of the year. A new student was the rebellious son of a Baptist pastor who had sent him to HAC hoping to straighten him out. Jim Vineyard was preaching, and the guy was sitting in the pews wise-cracking. Vineyard tore into him verbally. Dr. Evans, sitting on the platform, had a clearly frightened look on his face.

Jim yelled at the student to bring his Bible and stand on the platform. The student hadn't brought a Bible to chapel. Jim made another student lend him his Bible, and the fellow spent the chapel, standing at attention on the platform, following along in the borrowed Bible.

Later, Jim took him with him on a preaching trip.
 
bgwilkinson said:
Tennessean said:
Ray Young and Church Education.

Ray Young and Jack Schaap taught Church Education. Church Ed as it was called was a five day a week class that met immediately after chapel at 12:10 pm. You had to take it for 4 years in order to graduate.

CE was easily the largest class at HAC. Probably 700-800 students every semester. With that many students Bro. Young had to develop a way of answering the students questions about attendance, grading, assignments or follow up questions to what was taught in class in a way that was fair to everyone. As the lead teacher Ray Young developed a process to meet with and answer students questions.

From 7:15 am to 7:45 am every Tuesday a student who had a question regarding Church Education could come to Ray Young's college office and stand in line and meet with the class teacher. If you did not want to or were unable to stand in line from 7:15 am to 7:45 am on Tuesday you could put your question in writing, drop it in the Church Education box at the South Hallway Desk and expect an answer within 14 business days. (To this day there are probably students still waiting for answers to Church Ed questions)
It wasn't a great system but it was what it was.

Now at the beginning of each semester of Church Education, Ray Young would take a good amount of time to warn the class not to ask him Church Ed related questions at any time except from 7:15 am to 7:45 am on Tuesday. We were warned that bad things would happen if we did. Bad things. Really bad things. We were warned not to talk to him, his lead secretary, Miss Laurie Weir, or any of the 11 other secretaries that worked for him about Church Ed matters. His reasoning was if he stopped for one he would have to stop for all and he wanted to treat everyone fairly.

Now Ray Young was not mean about this. As a freshman I once passed him after class in the hallway. I stopped him, said hello, and asked him a follow up question about something he had just taught.  In mid sentence I realized what I was doing, stopped and apologized. He chuckled and very kindly and graciously answered the question. So there was nothing unkind about the policy and when I slipped up he was very nice about it.

But there were others. There was a junior named Howard (not his real name). Howard had a question regarding his grade in Church Education grade. Howard must not have been willing to stand in line at Bro. Young's office door from 7:15 am to 7:45 am on Tuesday. And I'm guessing he had not waited 14 business days for a written answer to be returned to him. Howard decided to stop Miss Laurie Weir in the hallway and ask her his question. Now Miss Weir was one of the kindest, nicest people at HAC. So Howard must have really pestered her for an answer.

The next day as Church Ed class started Bro. Young stepped to the podium. He made several announcements and then said he needed to take care of something. He called Howard by name and asked him to stand. After Howard stood Bro. Young informed the class that Howard had persistently asked Miss Weir a question. He reminded Howard that it was a violation of class rules to ask questions anytime other that 7:15 am to 7:45 am on Tuesday. He told Howard that since he could not follow the rules that everyone else followed that he would personally answer his question right then and there. He said, "Howard, the answer to your question is yes." Red faced and embarrassed, Howard sat down.

Now should Ray Young have handled it that way? I don't know. I know this. Howard is an alumnus but I don't think he has much nice to say about Ray Young. And today Howard is quite wealthy. My guess is that when he receives alumni fundraising letters they go into the circular file.
Click to expand...

I had no idea that our college employees were behaving in this manner, and for so many years this has gone on.

It is easy to see why we have used up so much good will that many colleges count on in their alumni.

We need friends not enemies.

I am very sorry that we employed so many boneheads.

It's what happens when one man runs everything.

Just one more thing for which we need to seek forgiveness from God and man.
Click to expand...

I have a follow up question. If you had known, being a long time church member and possibly a deacon, what would you have done?

After reading the initial stories about split chapel I wondered if Dr. Hyles knew this kind of thing was going on. And if he knew, did he approve?
 
Tennessean said:
bgwilkinson said:
Tennessean said:
Ray Young and Church Education.

Ray Young and Jack Schaap taught Church Education. Church Ed as it was called was a five day a week class that met immediately after chapel at 12:10 pm. You had to take it for 4 years in order to graduate.

CE was easily the largest class at HAC. Probably 700-800 students every semester. With that many students Bro. Young had to develop a way of answering the students questions about attendance, grading, assignments or follow up questions to what was taught in class in a way that was fair to everyone. As the lead teacher Ray Young developed a process to meet with and answer students questions.

From 7:15 am to 7:45 am every Tuesday a student who had a question regarding Church Education could come to Ray Young's college office and stand in line and meet with the class teacher. If you did not want to or were unable to stand in line from 7:15 am to 7:45 am on Tuesday you could put your question in writing, drop it in the Church Education box at the South Hallway Desk and expect an answer within 14 business days. (To this day there are probably students still waiting for answers to Church Ed questions)
It wasn't a great system but it was what it was.

Now at the beginning of each semester of Church Education, Ray Young would take a good amount of time to warn the class not to ask him Church Ed related questions at any time except from 7:15 am to 7:45 am on Tuesday. We were warned that bad things would happen if we did. Bad things. Really bad things. We were warned not to talk to him, his lead secretary, Miss Laurie Weir, or any of the 11 other secretaries that worked for him about Church Ed matters. His reasoning was if he stopped for one he would have to stop for all and he wanted to treat everyone fairly.

Now Ray Young was not mean about this. As a freshman I once passed him after class in the hallway. I stopped him, said hello, and asked him a follow up question about something he had just taught.  In mid sentence I realized what I was doing, stopped and apologized. He chuckled and very kindly and graciously answered the question. So there was nothing unkind about the policy and when I slipped up he was very nice about it.

But there were others. There was a junior named Howard (not his real name). Howard had a question regarding his grade in Church Education grade. Howard must not have been willing to stand in line at Bro. Young's office door from 7:15 am to 7:45 am on Tuesday. And I'm guessing he had not waited 14 business days for a written answer to be returned to him. Howard decided to stop Miss Laurie Weir in the hallway and ask her his question. Now Miss Weir was one of the kindest, nicest people at HAC. So Howard must have really pestered her for an answer.

The next day as Church Ed class started Bro. Young stepped to the podium. He made several announcements and then said he needed to take care of something. He called Howard by name and asked him to stand. After Howard stood Bro. Young informed the class that Howard had persistently asked Miss Weir a question. He reminded Howard that it was a violation of class rules to ask questions anytime other that 7:15 am to 7:45 am on Tuesday. He told Howard that since he could not follow the rules that everyone else followed that he would personally answer his question right then and there. He said, "Howard, the answer to your question is yes." Red faced and embarrassed, Howard sat down.

Now should Ray Young have handled it that way? I don't know. I know this. Howard is an alumnus but I don't think he has much nice to say about Ray Young. And today Howard is quite wealthy. My guess is that when he receives alumni fundraising letters they go into the circular file.
Click to expand...

I had no idea that our college employees were behaving in this manner, and for so many years this has gone on.

It is easy to see why we have used up so much good will that many colleges count on in their alumni.

We need friends not enemies.

I am very sorry that we employed so many boneheads.

It's what happens when one man runs everything.

Just one more thing for which we need to seek forgiveness from God and man.
Click to expand...

I have a follow up question. If you had known, being a long time church member and possibly a deacon, what would you have done?

After reading the initial stories about split chapel I wondered if Dr. Hyles knew this kind of thing was going on. And if he knew, did he approve?
Click to expand...

Bro. Hyles asked us to stay away from his employees, he cited chain of command reasons.

I now believe it had to do with some of the wacked out people he hired.

Had we known about these employees we could have begun to apply pressure in the meetings to at least get rid of these people, and possibly the other things would have come to the fore.

He was very careful of what he said to us in the meetings. He treated us as equals, he knew he was in a very precarious position, a tightrope walk of sorts, he needed our loyalty to continue as pastor.
 
RAIDER said:
This one took place in a split chapel with Meister.  Someone turned a guy in for not standing when a gal was getting ready to sit as his table during lunch.  Of course, it could have been a fact, or someone who had it in for the guy lied about him.

Meister sais, "So-and-so stand up".  The guy stood up.  Meister said, "Sit down".  The guy sat down.  Meister had him stand up and sit down for most of the service.  He also verbally ripped him apart.
Click to expand...
That....................is a Marine DI tactic. "Get on your belly/on your back/on your belly/on your back." He's an old Marine.  8)
 
fishinnut said:
RAIDER said:
This one took place in a split chapel with Meister.  Someone turned a guy in for not standing when a gal was getting ready to sit as his table during lunch.  Of course, it could have been a fact, or someone who had it in for the guy lied about him.

Meister sais, "So-and-so stand up".  The guy stood up.  Meister said, "Sit down".  The guy sat down.  Meister had him stand up and sit down for most of the service.  He also verbally ripped him apart.
Click to expand...
That....................is a Marine DI tactic. "Get on your belly/on your back/on your belly/on your back." He's an old Marine.  8)
Click to expand...
I was in the Chair Force and we got that kind of routine.  Been chewed out by Young several times and Casteel all the time but never in chapel. 
Never liked it but self esteem is still in tact and I am not bitter.
I fink I'm gonna qwy myself to sweep now... :'(
 
This wasn't in chapel (or even in college) but the summer between my 2nd and 3rd grade years at HB, a high school coach would have a summer camp for kids, we would play football, go to the gun range, maybe camping one night, etc.

One day after playing baseball, a kid in my grade said a cuss word. Don't remember exactly what was said but it was in passing and not in the middle of a blue streak. The coach pulled him off the bus, grabbed his tongue, pulled out his pocket knife and "pretended" to cut a piece of his tongue off with a pocket knife in front of the rest of us kids. While doing the stunt, the kid jerked his head and did cut his tongue. The coach grabbed an oily rag from the front of the bus and gave it to him to stop the bleeding. He then got on the bus, took a piece of the bloody rag and said he would do similar things to anybody who would cuss.

The kid was going into 3rd grade...

Kinda paid off for the kid's family. His mother was hired on school staff that summer.

On the old FFF, I told this story and a former deacon corroborated the incident. The coach kept his job for another year or so then went to another state to become a pastor.

There were other instances from HB from whipping a kid bareback with a belt, to forcing a kid to run the hallways carrying tires around his torso, screaming at him not to drop them because he had no shirt and there were girls around, to literally decking a student in the jaw, reeling him down the bleachers, etc. The abuse of power amongst some of the "leaders" in that place was just terrible. Seems the college abuse was more demoralizing than physically humiliating as happened at HB.

 
Sad!! That never happened at my public school. Never saw any physical abuse ever, or being screamed at either!
 
I was 17 when I started my Freshman year.  It was 1980....big election year.  They had everyone stand up in chapel.  Then they told everyone who was voting to sit down.  Then anyone who was voting in their home state was told to sit down.  There were a couple dozen of us left standing.  Then we got chewed out for not voting.  I couldn't vote as my birthday is end of November and I wasn't old enough.  In hindsight, I should have just sat down.  But, I was young and stupid and obedient.  So there I stood, an awkward, self-conscious little Freshman getting chewed out for not voting. Welcome to Hyles-Anderson!  Ha! Good times. 
 
Why is these kinda abuses allowed. Why don't people rise up & say enough is enough.

These kind of stories are repeated in IFB colleges & christian schools all over the country.

WHY IS IT PERMITTED TO CONTINUE? DO PASTORS & PARENTS NOT KNOW OR DO THEY THINK ITS OK.

MY DAD WOULD HAVE PUT A BULLET IN ANY TEACHER WHO ABUSED ME PHYSICALLY. HE WAS A LITTLE OLD SCHOOL THOUGH.

How many young adults have walked away from the church because of this type of mental & physical abuse.

 
sword said:
Why is these kinda abuses allowed. Why don't people rise up & say enough is enough.

These kind of stories are repeated in IFB colleges & christian schools all over the country.

WHY IS IT PERMITTED TO CONTINUE? DO PASTORS & PARENTS NOT KNOW OR DO THEY THINK ITS OK.

MY DAD WOULD HAVE PUT A BULLET IN ANY TEACHER WHO ABUSED ME PHYSICALLY. HE WAS A LITTLE OLD SCHOOL THOUGH.

How many young adults have walked away from the church because of this type of mental & physical abuse.
Click to expand...

Can you tell us at what other colleges this kind of thing happens at?
 
There is another thread about the deterioration of HAC, describing how they admitted large numbers of juvenile delinquents. I wonder if a lot of this wasn't because HAC had an increasingly ungodly student body.

That doesn't make it right, but it would explain some of this.
 
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