So take me through the process

[Smellin Coffee]

I hope that is specific enough for you.

Yes. As my dad used to say, "Give him enough rope to hang himself." You did.

In what way? By telling the truth?

Remember, your inquiry was in response to my post where I said:

...I no longer consider myself an Evangelical, much less a Fundamentalist.

So in what say did I "hang myself"?

 

[Thomas Cassidy]

81% Huh? 81% of what?

"Enough said about my opinion of Evangelicalism."

Let's see. You grew up in a man centered cult. You remained in that man centered cult well into adulthood.

When you finally had the courage to break away from that man centered cult you had no foundational knowledge of bible teaching and went off into lala land.

And now you blame all of Evangelicalism for your lack of courage to walk out of that mess when you were tall enough to reach the door knob.

I can't help but notice you failed to deal with any of my responses to your false accusations.

 

[Thomas Cassidy]

In what way? By telling the truth?

So far you haven't told any truth. In fact your ignored my truthful responses to all of your false accusations.

So in what say did I "hang myself"?

By refusing to honestly deal with my post.

 

[Thomas Cassidy]

Oh, and "the gospel" that Jesus is recorded to have preached was not that of violent atonement but of earthly justice.

The Atonement in Type and Shadow of things to come:

Exo 29:33  And they shall eat those things wherewith the atonement was made, to consecrate and to sanctify them: but a stranger shall not eat thereof, because they are holy.
Exo 29:36  And thou shalt offer every day a bullock for a sin offering for atonement: and thou shalt cleanse the altar, when thou hast made an atonement for it, and thou shalt anoint it, to sanctify it.
Exo 29:37  Seven days thou shalt make an atonement for the altar, and sanctify it; and it shall be an altar most holy: whatsoever toucheth the altar shall be holy.
Exo 30:10  And Aaron shall make an atonement upon the horns of it once in a year with the blood of the sin offering of atonements: once in the year shall he make atonement upon it throughout your generations: it is most holy unto the LORD.
Exo 30:15  The rich shall not give more, and the poor shall not give less than half a shekel, when they give an offering unto the LORD, to make an atonement for your souls.
Exo 30:16  And thou shalt take the atonement money of the children of Israel, and shalt appoint it for the service of the tabernacle of the congregation; that it may be a memorial unto the children of Israel before the LORD, to make an atonement for your souls.
Exo 32:30  And it came to pass on the morrow, that Moses said unto the people, Ye have sinned a great sin: and now I will go up unto the LORD; peradventure I shall make an atonement for your sin.
Lev 1:4  And he shall put his hand upon the head of the burnt offering; and it shall be accepted for him to make atonement for him.
Lev 4:20  And he shall do with the bullock as he did with the bullock for a sin offering, so shall he do with this: and the priest shall make an atonement for them, and it shall be forgiven them.
Lev 4:26  And he shall burn all his fat upon the altar, as the fat of the sacrifice of peace offerings: and the priest shall make an atonement for him as concerning his sin, and it shall be forgiven him.
Lev 4:31  And he shall take away all the fat thereof, as the fat is taken away from off the sacrifice of peace offerings; and the priest shall burn it upon the altar for a sweet savour unto the LORD; and the priest shall make an atonement for him, and it shall be forgiven him.
Lev 4:35  And he shall take away all the fat thereof, as the fat of the lamb is taken away from the sacrifice of the peace offerings; and the priest shall burn them upon the altar, according to the offerings made by fire unto the LORD: and the priest shall make an atonement for his sin that he hath committed, and it shall be forgiven him.
Lev 5:6  And he shall bring his trespass offering unto the LORD for his sin which he hath sinned, a female from the flock, a lamb or a kid of the goats, for a sin offering; and the priest shall make an atonement for him concerning his sin.
Lev 5:10  And he shall offer the second for a burnt offering, according to the manner: and the priest shall make an atonement for him for his sin which he hath sinned, and it shall be forgiven him.
Lev 5:13  And the priest shall make an atonement for him as touching his sin that he hath sinned in one of these, and it shall be forgiven him: and the remnant shall be the priest's, as a meat offering.
Lev 5:16  And he shall make amends for the harm that he hath done in the holy thing, and shall add the fifth part thereto, and give it unto the priest: and the priest shall make an atonement for him with the ram of the trespass offering, and it shall be forgiven him.
Lev 5:18  And he shall bring a ram without blemish out of the flock, with thy estimation, for a trespass offering, unto the priest: and the priest shall make an atonement for him concerning his ignorance wherein he erred and wist it not, and it shall be forgiven him.
Lev 6:7  And the priest shall make an atonement for him before the LORD: and it shall be forgiven him for any thing of all that he hath done in trespassing therein.
Lev 7:7  As the sin offering is, so is the trespass offering: there is one law for them: the priest that maketh atonement therewith shall have it.
Lev 8:34  As he hath done this day, so the LORD hath commanded to do, to make an atonement for you.
Lev 9:7  And Moses said unto Aaron, Go unto the altar, and offer thy sin offering, and thy burnt offering, and make an atonement for thyself, and for the people: and offer the offering of the people, and make an atonement for them; as the LORD commanded.
Lev 10:17  Wherefore have ye not eaten the sin offering in the holy place, seeing it is most holy, and God hath given it you to bear the iniquity of the congregation, to make atonement for them before the LORD?
Lev 12:7  Who shall offer it before the LORD, and make an atonement for her; and she shall be cleansed from the issue of her blood. This is the law for her that hath born a male or a female.
Lev 12:8  And if she be not able to bring a lamb, then she shall bring two turtles, or two young pigeons; the one for the burnt offering, and the other for a sin offering: and the priest shall make an atonement for her, and she shall be clean.
Lev 14:18  And the remnant of the oil that is in the priest's hand he shall pour upon the head of him that is to be cleansed: and the priest shall make an atonement for him before the LORD.
Lev 14:19  And the priest shall offer the sin offering, and make an atonement for him that is to be cleansed from his uncleanness; and afterward he shall kill the burnt offering:
Lev 14:20  And the priest shall offer the burnt offering and the meat offering upon the altar: and the priest shall make an atonement for him, and he shall be clean.
Lev 14:21  And if he be poor, and cannot get so much; then he shall take one lamb for a trespass offering to be waved, to make an atonement for him, and one tenth deal of fine flour mingled with oil for a meat offering, and a log of oil;
Lev 14:29  And the rest of the oil that is in the priest's hand he shall put upon the head of him that is to be cleansed, to make an atonement for him before the LORD.
Lev 14:31  Even such as he is able to get, the one for a sin offering, and the other for a burnt offering, with the meat offering: and the priest shall make an atonement for him that is to be cleansed before the LORD.
Lev 14:53  But he shall let go the living bird out of the city into the open fields, and make an atonement for the house: and it shall be clean.
Lev 15:15  And the priest shall offer them, the one for a sin offering, and the other for a burnt offering; and the priest shall make an atonement for him before the LORD for his issue.
Lev 15:30  And the priest shall offer the one for a sin offering, and the other for a burnt offering; and the priest shall make an atonement for her before the LORD for the issue of her uncleanness.
Lev 16:6  And Aaron shall offer his bullock of the sin offering, which is for himself, and make an atonement for himself, and for his house.
Lev 16:10  But the goat, on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat, shall be presented alive before the LORD, to make an atonement with him, and to let him go for a scapegoat into the wilderness.
Lev 16:11  And Aaron shall bring the bullock of the sin offering, which is for himself, and shall make an atonement for himself, and for his house, and shall kill the bullock of the sin offering which is for himself:
Lev 16:16  And he shall make an atonement for the holy place, because of the uncleanness of the children of Israel, and because of their transgressions in all their sins: and so shall he do for the tabernacle of the congregation, that remaineth among them in the midst of their uncleanness.
Lev 16:17  And there shall be no man in the tabernacle of the congregation when he goeth in to make an atonement in the holy place, until he come out, and have made an atonement for himself, and for his household, and for all the congregation of Israel.
Lev 16:18  And he shall go out unto the altar that is before the LORD, and make an atonement for it; and shall take of the blood of the bullock, and of the blood of the goat, and put it upon the horns of the altar round about.
Lev 16:24  And he shall wash his flesh with water in the holy place, and put on his garments, and come forth, and offer his burnt offering, and the burnt offering of the people, and make an atonement for himself, and for the people.
Lev 16:27  And the bullock for the sin offering, and the goat for the sin offering, whose blood was brought in to make atonement in the holy place, shall one carry forth without the camp; and they shall burn in the fire their skins, and their flesh, and their dung.
Lev 16:30  For on that day shall the priest make an atonement for you, to cleanse you, that ye may be clean from all your sins before the LORD.
Lev 16:32  And the priest, whom he shall anoint, and whom he shall consecrate to minister in the priest's office in his father's stead, shall make the atonement, and shall put on the linen clothes, even the holy garments:
Lev 16:33  And he shall make an atonement for the holy sanctuary, and he shall make an atonement for the tabernacle of the congregation, and for the altar, and he shall make an atonement for the priests, and for all the people of the congregation.
Lev 16:34  And this shall be an everlasting statute unto you, to make an atonement for the children of Israel for all their sins once a year. And he did as the LORD commanded Moses.
Lev 17:11  For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.
Lev 19:22  And the priest shall make an atonement for him with the ram of the trespass offering before the LORD for his sin which he hath done: and the sin which he hath done shall be forgiven him.
Lev 23:27  Also on the tenth day of this seventh month there shall be a day of atonement: it shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall afflict your souls, and offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD.
Lev 23:28  And ye shall do no work in that same day: for it is a day of atonement, to make an atonement for you before the LORD your God.
Lev 25:9  Then shalt thou cause the trumpet of the jubile to sound on the tenth day of the seventh month, in the day of atonement shall ye make the trumpet sound throughout all your land.
Num 5:8  But if the man have no kinsman to recompense the trespass unto, let the trespass be recompensed unto the LORD, even to the priest; beside the ram of the atonement, whereby an atonement shall be made for him.
Num 6:11  And the priest shall offer the one for a sin offering, and the other for a burnt offering, and make an atonement for him, for that he sinned by the dead, and shall hallow his head that same day.
Num 8:12  And the Levites shall lay their hands upon the heads of the bullocks: and thou shalt offer the one for a sin offering, and the other for a burnt offering, unto the LORD, to make an atonement for the Levites.
Num 8:19  And I have given the Levites as a gift to Aaron and to his sons from among the children of Israel, to do the service of the children of Israel in the tabernacle of the congregation, and to make an atonement for the children of Israel: that there be no plague among the children of Israel, when the children of Israel come nigh unto the sanctuary.
Num 8:21  And the Levites were purified, and they washed their clothes; and Aaron offered them as an offering before the LORD; and Aaron made an atonement for them to cleanse them.
Num 15:25  And the priest shall make an atonement for all the congregation of the children of Israel, and it shall be forgiven them; for it is ignorance: and they shall bring their offering, a sacrifice made by fire unto the LORD, and their sin offering before the LORD, for their ignorance:
Num 15:28  And the priest shall make an atonement for the soul that sinneth ignorantly, when he sinneth by ignorance before the LORD, to make an atonement for him; and it shall be forgiven him.
Num 16:46  And Moses said unto Aaron, Take a censer, and put fire therein from off the altar, and put on incense, and go quickly unto the congregation, and make an atonement for them: for there is wrath gone out from the LORD; the plague is begun.
Num 16:47  And Aaron took as Moses commanded, and ran into the midst of the congregation; and, behold, the plague was begun among the people: and he put on incense, and made an atonement for the people.
Num 25:13  And he shall have it, and his seed after him, even the covenant of an everlasting priesthood; because he was zealous for his God, and made an atonement for the children of Israel.
Num 28:22  And one goat for a sin offering, to make an atonement for you.
Num 28:30  And one kid of the goats, to make an atonement for you.
Num 29:5  And one kid of the goats for a sin offering, to make an atonement for you:
Num 29:11  One kid of the goats for a sin offering; beside the sin offering of atonement, and the continual burnt offering, and the meat offering of it, and their drink offerings.
Num 31:50  We have therefore brought an oblation for the LORD, what every man hath gotten, of jewels of gold, chains, and bracelets, rings, earrings, and tablets, to make an atonement for our souls before the LORD.
2Sa 21:3  Wherefore David said unto the Gibeonites, What shall I do for you? and wherewith shall I make the atonement, that ye may bless the inheritance of the LORD?
1Ch 6:49  But Aaron and his sons offered upon the altar of the burnt offering, and on the altar of incense, and were appointed for all the work of the place most holy, and to make an atonement for Israel, according to all that Moses the servant of God had commanded.
2Ch 29:24  And the priests killed them, and they made reconciliation with their blood upon the altar, to make an atonement for all Israel: for the king commanded that the burnt offering and the sin offering should be made for all Israel.
Neh 10:33  For the shewbread, and for the continual meat offering, and for the continual burnt offering, of the sabbaths, of the new moons, for the set feasts, and for the holy things, and for the sin offerings to make an atonement for Israel, and for all the work of the house of our God.

The Atonement in completion.

Rom 5:11  And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

81% Huh? 81% of what?

https://www.thenation.com/article/eighty-one-percent-of-white-evangelicals-voted-for-donald-trump-why/

"Enough said about my opinion of Evangelicalism."

Let's see. You grew up in a man centered cult. You remained in that man centered cult well into adulthood.

I was 21 when I left. My last service there was my college graduation service. Not sure how far "well into adulthood" that was.

When you finally had the courage to break away from that man centered cult you had no foundational knowledge of bible teaching and went off into lala land.

Sorry, the "man-centered" cult continues to exist. The "man" is the biblical character: Saul of Tarsus. Jesus and his teaching be damned.

And now you blame all of Evangelicalism for your lack of courage to walk out of that mess when you were tall enough to reach the door knob.

Nope. I blame Evangelicalism for claiming to walk the teachings of Christ when their walk is anything but that.

I can't help but notice you failed to deal with any of my responses to your false accusations.

It's called "time constraint". Ya know, having to work a job and such.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Oh, and "the gospel" that Jesus is recorded to have preached was not that of violent atonement but of earthly justice.

The Atonement in Type and Shadow of things to come:

Exo 29:33  And they shall eat those things wherewith the atonement was made, to consecrate and to sanctify them: but a stranger shall not eat thereof, because they are holy.
Exo 29:36  And thou shalt offer every day a bullock for a sin offering for atonement: and thou shalt cleanse the altar, when thou hast made an atonement for it, and thou shalt anoint it, to sanctify it.
Exo 29:37  Seven days thou shalt make an atonement for the altar, and sanctify it; and it shall be an altar most holy: whatsoever toucheth the altar shall be holy.
Exo 30:10  And Aaron shall make an atonement upon the horns of it once in a year with the blood of the sin offering of atonements: once in the year shall he make atonement upon it throughout your generations: it is most holy unto the LORD.
Exo 30:15  The rich shall not give more, and the poor shall not give less than half a shekel, when they give an offering unto the LORD, to make an atonement for your souls.
Exo 30:16  And thou shalt take the atonement money of the children of Israel, and shalt appoint it for the service of the tabernacle of the congregation; that it may be a memorial unto the children of Israel before the LORD, to make an atonement for your souls.
Exo 32:30  And it came to pass on the morrow, that Moses said unto the people, Ye have sinned a great sin: and now I will go up unto the LORD; peradventure I shall make an atonement for your sin.
Lev 1:4  And he shall put his hand upon the head of the burnt offering; and it shall be accepted for him to make atonement for him.
Lev 4:20  And he shall do with the bullock as he did with the bullock for a sin offering, so shall he do with this: and the priest shall make an atonement for them, and it shall be forgiven them.
Lev 4:26  And he shall burn all his fat upon the altar, as the fat of the sacrifice of peace offerings: and the priest shall make an atonement for him as concerning his sin, and it shall be forgiven him.
Lev 4:31  And he shall take away all the fat thereof, as the fat is taken away from off the sacrifice of peace offerings; and the priest shall burn it upon the altar for a sweet savour unto the LORD; and the priest shall make an atonement for him, and it shall be forgiven him.
Lev 4:35  And he shall take away all the fat thereof, as the fat of the lamb is taken away from the sacrifice of the peace offerings; and the priest shall burn them upon the altar, according to the offerings made by fire unto the LORD: and the priest shall make an atonement for his sin that he hath committed, and it shall be forgiven him.
Lev 5:6  And he shall bring his trespass offering unto the LORD for his sin which he hath sinned, a female from the flock, a lamb or a kid of the goats, for a sin offering; and the priest shall make an atonement for him concerning his sin.
Lev 5:10  And he shall offer the second for a burnt offering, according to the manner: and the priest shall make an atonement for him for his sin which he hath sinned, and it shall be forgiven him.
Lev 5:13  And the priest shall make an atonement for him as touching his sin that he hath sinned in one of these, and it shall be forgiven him: and the remnant shall be the priest's, as a meat offering.
Lev 5:16  And he shall make amends for the harm that he hath done in the holy thing, and shall add the fifth part thereto, and give it unto the priest: and the priest shall make an atonement for him with the ram of the trespass offering, and it shall be forgiven him.
Lev 5:18  And he shall bring a ram without blemish out of the flock, with thy estimation, for a trespass offering, unto the priest: and the priest shall make an atonement for him concerning his ignorance wherein he erred and wist it not, and it shall be forgiven him.
Lev 6:7  And the priest shall make an atonement for him before the LORD: and it shall be forgiven him for any thing of all that he hath done in trespassing therein.
Lev 7:7  As the sin offering is, so is the trespass offering: there is one law for them: the priest that maketh atonement therewith shall have it.
Lev 8:34  As he hath done this day, so the LORD hath commanded to do, to make an atonement for you.
Lev 9:7  And Moses said unto Aaron, Go unto the altar, and offer thy sin offering, and thy burnt offering, and make an atonement for thyself, and for the people: and offer the offering of the people, and make an atonement for them; as the LORD commanded.
Lev 10:17  Wherefore have ye not eaten the sin offering in the holy place, seeing it is most holy, and God hath given it you to bear the iniquity of the congregation, to make atonement for them before the LORD?
Lev 12:7  Who shall offer it before the LORD, and make an atonement for her; and she shall be cleansed from the issue of her blood. This is the law for her that hath born a male or a female.
Lev 12:8  And if she be not able to bring a lamb, then she shall bring two turtles, or two young pigeons; the one for the burnt offering, and the other for a sin offering: and the priest shall make an atonement for her, and she shall be clean.
Lev 14:18  And the remnant of the oil that is in the priest's hand he shall pour upon the head of him that is to be cleansed: and the priest shall make an atonement for him before the LORD.
Lev 14:19  And the priest shall offer the sin offering, and make an atonement for him that is to be cleansed from his uncleanness; and afterward he shall kill the burnt offering:
Lev 14:20  And the priest shall offer the burnt offering and the meat offering upon the altar: and the priest shall make an atonement for him, and he shall be clean.
Lev 14:21  And if he be poor, and cannot get so much; then he shall take one lamb for a trespass offering to be waved, to make an atonement for him, and one tenth deal of fine flour mingled with oil for a meat offering, and a log of oil;
Lev 14:29  And the rest of the oil that is in the priest's hand he shall put upon the head of him that is to be cleansed, to make an atonement for him before the LORD.
Lev 14:31  Even such as he is able to get, the one for a sin offering, and the other for a burnt offering, with the meat offering: and the priest shall make an atonement for him that is to be cleansed before the LORD.
Lev 14:53  But he shall let go the living bird out of the city into the open fields, and make an atonement for the house: and it shall be clean.
Lev 15:15  And the priest shall offer them, the one for a sin offering, and the other for a burnt offering; and the priest shall make an atonement for him before the LORD for his issue.
Lev 15:30  And the priest shall offer the one for a sin offering, and the other for a burnt offering; and the priest shall make an atonement for her before the LORD for the issue of her uncleanness.
Lev 16:6  And Aaron shall offer his bullock of the sin offering, which is for himself, and make an atonement for himself, and for his house.
Lev 16:10  But the goat, on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat, shall be presented alive before the LORD, to make an atonement with him, and to let him go for a scapegoat into the wilderness.
Lev 16:11  And Aaron shall bring the bullock of the sin offering, which is for himself, and shall make an atonement for himself, and for his house, and shall kill the bullock of the sin offering which is for himself:
Lev 16:16  And he shall make an atonement for the holy place, because of the uncleanness of the children of Israel, and because of their transgressions in all their sins: and so shall he do for the tabernacle of the congregation, that remaineth among them in the midst of their uncleanness.
Lev 16:17  And there shall be no man in the tabernacle of the congregation when he goeth in to make an atonement in the holy place, until he come out, and have made an atonement for himself, and for his household, and for all the congregation of Israel.
Lev 16:18  And he shall go out unto the altar that is before the LORD, and make an atonement for it; and shall take of the blood of the bullock, and of the blood of the goat, and put it upon the horns of the altar round about.
Lev 16:24  And he shall wash his flesh with water in the holy place, and put on his garments, and come forth, and offer his burnt offering, and the burnt offering of the people, and make an atonement for himself, and for the people.
Lev 16:27  And the bullock for the sin offering, and the goat for the sin offering, whose blood was brought in to make atonement in the holy place, shall one carry forth without the camp; and they shall burn in the fire their skins, and their flesh, and their dung.
Lev 16:30  For on that day shall the priest make an atonement for you, to cleanse you, that ye may be clean from all your sins before the LORD.
Lev 16:32  And the priest, whom he shall anoint, and whom he shall consecrate to minister in the priest's office in his father's stead, shall make the atonement, and shall put on the linen clothes, even the holy garments:
Lev 16:33  And he shall make an atonement for the holy sanctuary, and he shall make an atonement for the tabernacle of the congregation, and for the altar, and he shall make an atonement for the priests, and for all the people of the congregation.
Lev 16:34  And this shall be an everlasting statute unto you, to make an atonement for the children of Israel for all their sins once a year. And he did as the LORD commanded Moses.
Lev 17:11  For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.
Lev 19:22  And the priest shall make an atonement for him with the ram of the trespass offering before the LORD for his sin which he hath done: and the sin which he hath done shall be forgiven him.
Lev 23:27  Also on the tenth day of this seventh month there shall be a day of atonement: it shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall afflict your souls, and offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD.
Lev 23:28  And ye shall do no work in that same day: for it is a day of atonement, to make an atonement for you before the LORD your God.
Lev 25:9  Then shalt thou cause the trumpet of the jubile to sound on the tenth day of the seventh month, in the day of atonement shall ye make the trumpet sound throughout all your land.
Num 5:8  But if the man have no kinsman to recompense the trespass unto, let the trespass be recompensed unto the LORD, even to the priest; beside the ram of the atonement, whereby an atonement shall be made for him.
Num 6:11  And the priest shall offer the one for a sin offering, and the other for a burnt offering, and make an atonement for him, for that he sinned by the dead, and shall hallow his head that same day.
Num 8:12  And the Levites shall lay their hands upon the heads of the bullocks: and thou shalt offer the one for a sin offering, and the other for a burnt offering, unto the LORD, to make an atonement for the Levites.
Num 8:19  And I have given the Levites as a gift to Aaron and to his sons from among the children of Israel, to do the service of the children of Israel in the tabernacle of the congregation, and to make an atonement for the children of Israel: that there be no plague among the children of Israel, when the children of Israel come nigh unto the sanctuary.
Num 8:21  And the Levites were purified, and they washed their clothes; and Aaron offered them as an offering before the LORD; and Aaron made an atonement for them to cleanse them.
Num 15:25  And the priest shall make an atonement for all the congregation of the children of Israel, and it shall be forgiven them; for it is ignorance: and they shall bring their offering, a sacrifice made by fire unto the LORD, and their sin offering before the LORD, for their ignorance:
Num 15:28  And the priest shall make an atonement for the soul that sinneth ignorantly, when he sinneth by ignorance before the LORD, to make an atonement for him; and it shall be forgiven him.
Num 16:46  And Moses said unto Aaron, Take a censer, and put fire therein from off the altar, and put on incense, and go quickly unto the congregation, and make an atonement for them: for there is wrath gone out from the LORD; the plague is begun.
Num 16:47  And Aaron took as Moses commanded, and ran into the midst of the congregation; and, behold, the plague was begun among the people: and he put on incense, and made an atonement for the people.
Num 25:13  And he shall have it, and his seed after him, even the covenant of an everlasting priesthood; because he was zealous for his God, and made an atonement for the children of Israel.
Num 28:22  And one goat for a sin offering, to make an atonement for you.
Num 28:30  And one kid of the goats, to make an atonement for you.
Num 29:5  And one kid of the goats for a sin offering, to make an atonement for you:
Num 29:11  One kid of the goats for a sin offering; beside the sin offering of atonement, and the continual burnt offering, and the meat offering of it, and their drink offerings.
Num 31:50  We have therefore brought an oblation for the LORD, what every man hath gotten, of jewels of gold, chains, and bracelets, rings, earrings, and tablets, to make an atonement for our souls before the LORD.
2Sa 21:3  Wherefore David said unto the Gibeonites, What shall I do for you? and wherewith shall I make the atonement, that ye may bless the inheritance of the LORD?
1Ch 6:49  But Aaron and his sons offered upon the altar of the burnt offering, and on the altar of incense, and were appointed for all the work of the place most holy, and to make an atonement for Israel, according to all that Moses the servant of God had commanded.
2Ch 29:24  And the priests killed them, and they made reconciliation with their blood upon the altar, to make an atonement for all Israel: for the king commanded that the burnt offering and the sin offering should be made for all Israel.
Neh 10:33  For the shewbread, and for the continual meat offering, and for the continual burnt offering, of the sabbaths, of the new moons, for the set feasts, and for the holy things, and for the sin offerings to make an atonement for Israel, and for all the work of the house of our God.

The Atonement in completion.

Rom 5:11  And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

Thank you for proving my point. Not a SINGLE passage from the teachings of Jesus.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

In what way? By telling the truth?

So far you haven't told any truth. In fact your ignored my truthful responses to all of your false accusations.

My response was about mainstream Evangelicalism. But apparently you don't really pay attention and had to make my response about yourself, even after I directly said:

I have never met you so I have no opinion about you personally. Therefore, I cannot and will not answer about you specifically.

Your claims were mostly about YOUR position concerning my answers. You are entitled to your position. Why must I be required to respond to your behaviors or ideals? I'm not a puppet that will dance to make you try to look good amongst your peers.

So in what say did I "hang myself"?

By refusing to honestly deal with my post.

Ah, so I "refused". I'm so glad you know me so well. Seriously, I didn't have time to respond point by point with several conference calls and work issues that needed to be dealt with. Now that I know you are baiting, there is no point in my answering any of your ramblings. You aren't going to change your mind and I'm not going back to the falsities you believe.

I guess now you can officially call it a refusal.

 

[Thomas Cassidy]

Your claims were mostly about YOUR position concerning my answers. You are entitled to your position. Why must I be required to respond to your behaviors or ideals?

Because I, and the positions I posted, represent main stream evangelicalism. Not that vile man centered cult you supported for so long.

 

[Thomas Cassidy]

Thank you for proving my point. Not a SINGLE passage from the teachings of Jesus.

So the Old Testament is not inspired? All the prophecies concerning Christ are lies? And Luke lied when he said all the prophets preached Christ?  Wow. Just wow.

 

[TidesofTruth]

Thank you for proving my point. Not a SINGLE passage from the teachings of Jesus.

So the Old Testament is not inspired? All the prophecies concerning Christ are lies? And Luke lied when he said all the prophets preached Christ?  Wow. Just wow.

You are arguing with a complete and utter heretic who has no ability whatsoever to rightly divide scripture, takes teaching to Hebrew people from Jesus and tries to shoehorn it into a gospel for the gentile.  He is a heretic and I marked him as such long ago. 

Somehow he believes that the memories of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John in as late of years as 80's or 90's are a more valid representation of what Jesus said than the inspiration of Jesus' own spirit on the rest of scripture.  Somehow he has managed to make our Jehovah God into a little insignificant being who has no control whatsoever over His own word and ability to keep and preserve it to the generations that followed except for maybe the words that somehow God got man to place into a red color on a piece of paper.

 

[Twisted]

Thank you for proving my point. Not a SINGLE passage from the teachings of Jesus.

So the Old Testament is not inspired? All the prophecies concerning Christ are lies? And Luke lied when he said all the prophets preached Christ?  Wow. Just wow.

You are arguing with a complete and utter heretic who has no ability whatsoever to rightly divide scripture, takes teaching to Hebrew people from Jesus and tries to shoehorn it into a gospel for the gentile.  He is a heretic and I marked him as such long ago. 

Somehow he believes that the memories of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John in as late of years as 80's or 90's are a more valid representation of what Jesus said than the inspiration of Jesus' own spirit on the rest of scripture.  Somehow he has managed to make our Jehovah God into a little insignificant being who has no control whatsoever over His own word and ability to keep and preserve it to the generations that followed except for maybe the words that somehow God got man to place into a red color on a piece of paper.

All true, but we still love him.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Thank you for proving my point. Not a SINGLE passage from the teachings of Jesus.

So the Old Testament is not inspired? All the prophecies concerning Christ are lies? And Luke lied when he said all the prophets preached Christ?  Wow. Just wow.

Aaaannnddd there's the stretch.

Just because something isn't inspired ("God-breathed") doesn't make it a "lie". I certainly don't believe the instruction sheet on my Maytag washer is "God-breathed" but I don't consider it to be at all untrue.

So it seems the lying is done by those like you who hold this ideal, in your accusations of those of us who disagree with a verbal plenary inspiration viewpoint of the same canon that you do. But then again, Evangelicalism can't stand without it trying to be an authoritative power source and protected with lies if necessary.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Thank you for proving my point. Not a SINGLE passage from the teachings of Jesus.

So the Old Testament is not inspired? All the prophecies concerning Christ are lies? And Luke lied when he said all the prophets preached Christ?  Wow. Just wow.

You are arguing with a complete and utter heretic who has no ability whatsoever to rightly divide scripture, takes teaching to Hebrew people from Jesus and tries to shoehorn it into a gospel for the gentile.  He is a heretic and I marked him as such long ago. 

Somehow he believes that the memories of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John in as late of years as 80's or 90's are a more valid representation of what Jesus said than the inspiration of Jesus' own spirit on the rest of scripture.  Somehow he has managed to make our Jehovah God into a little insignificant being who has no control whatsoever over His own word and ability to keep and preserve it to the generations that followed except for maybe the words that somehow God got man to place into a red color on a piece of paper.

All true, but we still love him.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Thank you for proving my point. Not a SINGLE passage from the teachings of Jesus.

So the Old Testament is not inspired? All the prophecies concerning Christ are lies? And Luke lied when he said all the prophets preached Christ?  Wow. Just wow.

You are arguing with a complete and utter heretic who has no ability whatsoever to rightly divide scripture, takes teaching to Hebrew people from Jesus and tries to shoehorn it into a gospel for the gentile.  He is a heretic and I marked him as such long ago. 

Somehow he believes that the memories of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John in as late of years as 80's or 90's are a more valid representation of what Jesus said than the inspiration of Jesus' own spirit on the rest of scripture.  Somehow he has managed to make our Jehovah God into a little insignificant being who has no control whatsoever over His own word and ability to keep and preserve it to the generations that followed except for maybe the words that somehow God got man to place into a red color on a piece of paper.

Here is my description about myself:

Aligning with the outliers. Forum heretic. Exvangelical. Jesus follower wannabe.

Oh, and I don't deny preservation. I believe preservation through the red letters. If the rest of the canon doesn't make it through that particular grid, I don't hold it to be authoritative. That is not to say it isn't truth, but rather descriptive and not prescriptive.

Hence, there is no record of Jesus giving the gospel of violence nor the requirement of sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins, so maybe his gospel really does differ than the Evangelical mode of theology carved primarily from one of their gods, Saul of Tarsus. (Ya know, the one who was abandoned by the true Apostles as well as the Church of Ephesus.)

 

[TidesofTruth]

My Entire Bible is red!

 

[Thomas Cassidy]

Aaaannnddd there's the stretch.

Aaaaannnndddd there it is! The deflection away from the issue to a smoke screen to hide behind.

Either the OT passages dealing with the blood atonement are true or they aren't. You can't have it both ways.

The blood atonement is the very foundation of our salvation. And "apart from shedding of blood there is no remission (of sin)."

By denying the blood atonement you admit you are still in your sins, unsaved, lost, undone, without hope.

Come to Christ. Believe Him. Repent of your denial of Him and His word, and humble yourself before the Throne of Grace. Before it is too late.

 

[RAIDER]

Aaaannnddd there's the stretch.

Aaaaannnndddd there it is! The deflection away from the issue to smoke screen to hide behind.

Either the OT passages dealing with the blood atonement are true or they aren't. You can't have it both ways.

The blood atonement is the very foundation of our salvation. And "apart from shedding of blood there is no remission (of sin)."

By denying the blood atonement you admit you are still in your sins, unsaved, lost, undone, without hope.

Come to Christ. Believe Him. Repent of your denial of Him and His word, and humble yourself before the Throne of Grace. Before it is too late.

Christ preached the Gospel of the Kingdom to the Jew.  Paul preached the Gospel of Grace to the Gentile. 

 

[Smellin Coffee]

My Entire Bible is red!

Thank you for your idolatrous confession.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Aaaannnddd there's the stretch.

Aaaaannnndddd there it is! The deflection away from the issue to a smoke screen to hide behind.

Either the OT passages dealing with the blood atonement are true or they aren't. You can't have it both ways.

The blood atonement is the very foundation of our salvation. And "apart from shedding of blood there is no remission (of sin)."

By denying the blood atonement you admit you are still in your sins, unsaved, lost, undone, without hope.

Come to Christ. Believe Him. Repent of your denial of Him and His word, and humble yourself before the Throne of Grace. Before it is too late.

"Go and learn what this means: I (God) desire mercy and NOT sacrifice."

Oh, and what about those poor folks in the OT who could not afford blood animals so they had to offer flour? I guess either their sins aren't forgiven or blood sacrifice is not a mandatory requirement for EVERYONE.

In Jewish context (from which you are using), the idea of sacrifice was not that of forgiveness of sin.

How do Jews obtain forgiveness without sacrifices?
    Forgiveness of sins against God alone is simply obtained through repentance and confession of one's sins in words before God Himself, and amending one's future conduct according to the halakhah; when one sins against a person (as by theft or injury), he must also do his best to make restitution to the person injured and gain his forgiveness, as well as repenting, confessing, and making amends in future conduct before God.  Gentiles may be surprised to learn that this is as fully effective for them as for Jews (which is the main point of the Book of Jonah, of course; see Jonah 3,10, in particular).  When the Temple stands, some sins require offerings as explained below in addition to this repentance process, not instead of it; without this repentance process, offerings for sins are totally ineffective, and must be brought again when one has truly repented.
    It is important to emphasize that under the Torah, sacrifice was never the exclusive means of obtaining forgiveness, was not in and of itself sufficient to obtain forgiveness, and in certain circumstances was not even effective to obtain forgiveness.  This will be discussed further below.
    In current Jewish practice, prayer and study of the laws of sacrifices has taken the place of sacrifices.  In accordance with the words of Hosea, we render instead of bullocks the offering of our lips (Hosea 14,3; please note that the KJV translates this somewhat differently).  While dedicating the Temple, King Solomon referred to the idea that prayer can be used to obtain forgiveness (I Kings 8,46-50).  Our prayer services are in many ways designed to parallel the sacrificial practices; for example, we have an extra service on shabbat, to parallel the extra shabbat offering.  For more information about this, see Jewish Liturgy.
   
But isn't a blood sacrifice required in order to obtain forgiveness?
    Not at all, as we have just seen in the previous paragraph.  Although animal sacrifice is one means of obtaining forgiveness, there are non-animal offerings as well, and there are other means for obtaining forgiveness that do not involve sacrifices at all.
    The passage that people ordinarily cite for the notion that blood is required is Leviticus 17,11:  "For the soul of the flesh is in the blood and I have assigned it for you upon the altar to provide atonement for your souls; for it is the blood that atones for the soul".  But the passage that this verse comes from is not about atonement, but about dietary laws, and the passage only says that blood is used to obtain atonement--not that blood is the sole means for obtaining atonement.  Leviticus 17,10-12 could be paraphrased as "Do not eat blood, because blood is used in atonement rituals; therefore, do not eat blood".

So if you are going to use Jewish text as proof, you need to use the Jewish context.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Aaaannnddd there's the stretch.

Aaaaannnndddd there it is! The deflection away from the issue to smoke screen to hide behind.

Either the OT passages dealing with the blood atonement are true or they aren't. You can't have it both ways.

The blood atonement is the very foundation of our salvation. And "apart from shedding of blood there is no remission (of sin)."

By denying the blood atonement you admit you are still in your sins, unsaved, lost, undone, without hope.

Come to Christ. Believe Him. Repent of your denial of Him and His word, and humble yourself before the Throne of Grace. Before it is too late.

Christ preached the Gospel of the Kingdom to the Jew.  Paul preached the Gospel of Grace to the Gentile.

Herein lies the rub. In Matthew 28:16-20, Jesus instructed his JEWISH disciples to "go into all the world" and they were to "teach everything I taught" them while he was on earth. IOW, Red letters.

Reading church history and Foxes' Book of Martyrs, it is clear the disciples went into Gentile countries, most of whom died in Gentile territory. So if they were to teach what Jesus did, were they speaking ONLY to Jews in those Gentile countries?

Second point is this: what about Peter? "Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe..." The fact that he was martyred in Rome would indicate he continued his quest to reach Gentiles, despite Paul's comment: "On the contrary, when they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been entrusted with the gospel to the circumcised..."

So if Jesus reached Jews, then His command to "go into all the world" would have meant the disciples were to reach only Jews in Gentile countries and somehow (through his revelatory vision?), Peter didn't get that idea and claimed he was supposed to reach the Gentiles in contradiction to Jesus' command.

So if your statement is true, the earthly teachings of Jesus should be tossed out of the canon and Paul's teachings should be the focal point. In essence, this is what Evangelicalism has done by devaluing Jesus' teaching. I choose to hold to the opposite idea believing Jesus' teaching is preeminent and the rest of the canon (as well as other commentary) should be filtered through those teachings.