So, America is 'Post Christian'....what else is new?

[quote author=Tarheel Baptist]True, to a certain extent...i.e. the Great Awakenings.
You seem to miss the point...your modus operandi.  ;)

America has never declared a state religion....which would go against one of the reasons for her founding.

A "Christian nation.", doesn't mean that the United States has an official or legally-preferred religion or church...or that other religions are inferior or less citizens.

But this nation, its institutions and laws, was founded on Biblical principles basic to Christianity and to Judaism from which it evolved.

The great Democrat (an oxymoron today :)) Harry Truman said "The fundamental basis of this nation's laws was given to Moses on the Mount. The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teachings we get from Exodus and Saint Matthew, from Isaiah and Saint Paul. I don't think we emphasize that enough these days. If we don't have a proper fundamental moral background, we will finally end up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in rights for anybody except the State."[/quote]

I haven't missed the point at all. A lot of the principles that our nation was founded on were based more on the writings of Hobbs, Locke, Bacon, and Smith than on the writings of Matthew or Moses.
 
Castor Muscular said:
I ran this thread through Google Translate, and I still don't understand what anyone is saying.
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I'm sorry for your lack of understanding..... ;D
 
rsc2a said:
[quote author=Tarheel Baptist]True, to a certain extent...i.e. the Great Awakenings.
You seem to miss the point...your modus operandi.  ;)

America has never declared a state religion....which would go against one of the reasons for her founding.

A "Christian nation.", doesn't mean that the United States has an official or legally-preferred religion or church...or that other religions are inferior or less citizens.

But this nation, its institutions and laws, was founded on Biblical principles basic to Christianity and to Judaism from which it evolved.

The great Democrat (an oxymoron today :)) Harry Truman said "The fundamental basis of this nation's laws was given to Moses on the Mount. The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teachings we get from Exodus and Saint Matthew, from Isaiah and Saint Paul. I don't think we emphasize that enough these days. If we don't have a proper fundamental moral background, we will finally end up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in rights for anybody except the State."
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I haven't missed the point at all. A lot of the principles that our nation was founded on were based more on the writings of Hobbs, Locke, Bacon, and Smith than on the writings of Matthew or Moses.
[/quote]

Again, partially true....but apart from a very small minority, they were Christians. And, Hobbs wrote that government should have absolute control over her subjects.... ;)

Yes, you miss the point...as usual.
 
[quote author=Tarheel Baptist]Again, partially true....but apart from a very small minority, they were Christians.[/quote]

Folks like Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, Thomas Paine and Benjamin Franklin?

[quote author=Tarheel Baptist]And, Hobbs wrote that government should have absolute control over her subjects.... ;)

Yes, you miss the point...as usual.[/quote]

From wiki:

Hobbes was a champion of absolutism for the sovereign, but he also developed some of the fundamentals of European liberal thought: the right of the individual; the natural equality of all men; the artificial character of the political order (which led to the later distinction between civil society and the state); the view that all legitimate political power must be "representative" and based on the consent of the people; and a liberal interpretation of law which leaves people free to do whatever the law does not explicitly forbid.
 
Recovering IFB said:
Tarheel Baptist said:
Recovering IFB said:
Tarheel Baptist said:
Recovering IFB said:
When we even a theocracy?
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What we even say?
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By your posts, you act like it
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Like what?
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The sky is falling attitude
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I don't have that attitude.....I merely posted a link....which confirms what seems obvious to me.

But, as a Biblicist....Calvinist to some  :).....I'm good to go....when He's ready!
In the meantime, I'll continue doing what I've always done....enjoy life, especially my grandchildren, enjoy the ministry to which He entrusted to me and leave the results to Him!  ;D
 
rsc2a said:
[quote author=Tarheel Baptist]Again, partially true....but apart from a very small minority, they were Christians.
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Folks like Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, Thomas Paine and Benjamin Franklin?

[quote author=Tarheel Baptist]And, Hobbs wrote that government should have absolute control over her subjects.... ;)

Yes, you miss the point...as usual.[/quote]

From wiki:

Hobbes was a champion of absolutism for the sovereign, but he also developed some of the fundamentals of European liberal thought: the right of the individual; the natural equality of all men; the artificial character of the political order (which led to the later distinction between civil society and the state); the view that all legitimate political power must be "representative" and based on the consent of the people; and a liberal interpretation of law which leaves people free to do whatever the law does not explicitly forbid.
[/quote]

Not sure why you posted that wiki quote.....it doesn't contradict any point I've made.
No one I know argues that America was ever destined to be a theocracy or that the founding fathers wanted Christianity declared as the state religion.

The point is.....you really don't care what the point is.....Harry Truman 'got it' and he was a Democrat for goodness sakes!  ;D
 
[quote author=Tarheel Baptist]Not sure why you posted that wiki quote.....it doesn't contradict any point I've made. [/quote]

Other than the fact that you misrepresented Hobbes' position?

[quote author=Tarheel Baptist]No one I know argues that America was ever destined to be a theocracy or that the founding fathers wanted Christianity declared as the state religion. [/quote]

Yeah...and history tells us how much of a "Christian nation" we were. Based on the metrics in the link, other than a couple decades in the mid-1900s, the answer is "not much of one".

[quote author=Tarheel Baptist]The point is.....you really don't care what the point is.....Harry Truman 'got it' and he was a Democrat for goodness sakes!  ;D[/quote]

Yes...and Democrat in 1950 meant something a lot different than Democrat in 2013.
 
rsc2a said:
16KJV11 said:
This seems to follow the trend of the rest of the world.
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Except in Latin America, Africa, and Asia...
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Shhh, you'll wake the White people.  You only named the other HALF OF THE WORLD.  But those aren't real Christians, anyway, cuz bad things happen to them after publicly professing Christ.  If they were good Christians, they'd be rich n famous dontchaknow, not tortured and killed. 

Anishinabe

 
rsc2a said:
[quote author=Tarheel Baptist]Not sure why you posted that wiki quote.....it doesn't contradict any point I've made.
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Other than the fact that you misrepresented Hobbes' position?

[quote author=Tarheel Baptist]No one I know argues that America was ever destined to be a theocracy or that the founding fathers wanted Christianity declared as the state religion. [/quote]

Yeah...and history tells us how much of a "Christian nation" we were. Based on the metrics in the link, other than a couple decades in the mid-1900s, the answer is "not much of one".

[quote author=Tarheel Baptist]The point is.....you really don't care what the point is.....Harry Truman 'got it' and he was a Democrat for goodness sakes!  ;D[/quote]

Yes...and Democrat in 1950 meant something a lot different than Democrat in 2013.
[/quote]

You misrepresent what I said about Hobbes....or just didn't comprehend it:

You mentioned Hobbes and Locke together and I pointed out Hobbes position on government (which Locke obviously disagreed with).

Hobbes on government: a contract exists between the king and the people; but once the king becomes king, he cannot be overthrown and obtains absolute power.

John Locke believed government was conditional and can be overthrown if it does not represent the people.


And Truman understood the context of America and Christianity....which you don't....or won't admit to.
 
[quote author=Tarheel Baptist]You misrepresent what I said about Hobbes....or just didn't comprehend it:

You mentioned Hobbes and Locke together and I pointed out Hobbes position on government (which Locke obviously disagreed with).

Hobbes on government: a contract exists between the king and the people; but once the king becomes king, he cannot be overthrown and obtains absolute power.

John Locke believed government was conditional and can be overthrown if it does not represent the people.[/quote]

And it doesn't change the fact that our nation's guiding principles were as much (if not more) based on their writings (along with other guys like Smith, Bacon, and Descartes) than on the writings of Moses or Paul. Kind of hard to argue that America was founded as a "Christian nation" when some of the biggest influences were actually Deistic.

Now if you had said that America was founded on principles of Western Christendom, I would have agreed with you. But Western Christendom is not necessarily Christian.

[quote author=Tarheel Baptist]And Truman understood the context of America and Christianity....which you don't....or won't admit to.[/quote]

In that case, so did President G.W. Bush and so does President Obama. Guess your argument that we are post-Christian is shot...

...or you can read the 1st amendment to the COTUS. You do know that there was a push to officially recognize the United States as a Christian nation by some of the political powers but that movement was rejected by the overall delegation, right?

In fact, can you show me where we've ever established a theocracy? Better yet, didn't Jesus Himself say that "[His] Kingdom is not of this world."? We are a nation that is composed of a large number of Christians. However, the last earthly nation that could accurately be called a "Yahweh nation" was destroyed by the Babylonians, then, after a brief re-emergence, again by the Romans.
 
And the picking of nits continues unabated.
 
subllibrm said:
And the picking of nits continues unabated.
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Been picking ticks lately.  They're bad this year in da nawrf.

Anishinabe

 
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