Scriptural Discussion - What did the disciples preach?

[rsc2a]

This brings up an even deeper discussion.  If the disciples did not know about the death, burial, and resurrection until later, what did they do to be "saved"?

Follow Jesus. Just like you and me. 

Got it.  Do you lean toward a dispensational view?

Nope.

 

[Fresh Air]

This brings up an even deeper discussion.  If the disciples did not know about the death, burial, and resurrection until later, what did they do to be "saved"?

They believed that Jesus was the Messiah and that He was God. That was the sum and substance of Peter's great confession of faith.

Matthew 16.13 ¶  When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
14  And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
15  He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16  And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

Belief is always the key, whether in the OT, Jesus' day, or our own day. It always comes back to faith even if that faith does not have the specific knowledge that the faith of a different day has.

 

[RAIDER]

This brings up an even deeper discussion.  If the disciples did not know about the death, burial, and resurrection until later, what did they do to be "saved"?

They believed that Jesus was the Messiah and that He was God. That was the sum and substance of Peter's great confession of faith.

Matthew 16.13 ¶  When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
14  And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
15  He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16  And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

Belief is always the key, whether in the OT, Jesus' day, or our own day. It always comes back to faith even if that faith does not have the specific knowledge that the faith of a different day has.

Amen!!

 

[Smellin Coffee]

This brings up an even deeper discussion.  If the disciples did not know about the death, burial, and resurrection until later, what did they do to be "saved"?

They believed that Jesus was the Messiah and that He was God. That was the sum and substance of Peter's great confession of faith.

Matthew 16.13 ¶  When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
14  And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
15  He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16  And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

Belief is always the key, whether in the OT, Jesus' day, or our own day. It always comes back to faith even if that faith does not have the specific knowledge that the faith of a different day has.

Not to be technical here or start an issue, but in this passage, Jesus claimed to be the Son OF God, not God the Son.

Carry on.

 

[Fresh Air]

Not to be technical here or start an issue, but in this passage, Jesus claimed to be the Son OF God, not God the Son.

Carry on.

Technically...

...ah nevermind. You already know what I think of your heresy.

 

[cpizzle]

Great discussion!

My point of view....

Salvation comes form believing in Christ as God's Son and our Saviour.  The Death, burial, and resurrection tell us how Christ saves us, but a full understanding of that is not necessary for Salvation (however a rejection of the gospel would certainly show a lack of "saving" faith.)

I theorize (I could certainly be wrong), that Christ came to save his people (the Jews) and only opened up Salvation worldwide upon their rejection.  Based upon the 70 weeks in Daniel, I believe that Christ came to prepare for God's eternal kingdom.  He came to die, be resurrected, ascend, and return 7 years later to usher in God's perfect kingdom on earth.  Due to Israel's rejection of Christ as God's son and their king, God's timeframe of 490 years was paused and the "Church Age" (I use that term as a description, I am not a hyper-dispensationalist) was ushered in.  Read in Romans about the cutting off of the "natural branch" (Israel) and the grafting of the gentiles.  At some point in the future, God will rapture out his Church and the last 7 years of prophecy for Jerusalem will resume. 

Compare Isaiah 61:1 with Luke 4:18.  Christ says that his is fulfilling all of Isaiah's prophecies with the exception of the "the day of vengeance of our God" (probably the tribulation.)

 

[RAIDER]

Great discussion!

My point of view....

Salvation comes form believing in Christ as God's Son and our Saviour.  The Death, burial, and resurrection tell us how Christ saves us, but a full understanding of that is not necessary for Salvation (however a rejection of the gospel would certainly show a lack of "saving" faith.)

Are you saying that someone today can be saved without believing in the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ?

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Great discussion!

My point of view....

Salvation comes form believing in Christ as God's Son and our Saviour.  The Death, burial, and resurrection tell us how Christ saves us, but a full understanding of that is not necessary for Salvation (however a rejection of the gospel would certainly show a lack of "saving" faith.)

Are you saying that someone today can be saved without believing in the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ?

In His parable of the Good Samaritan, Jesus taught the Law Expert he must "do likewise" (as the Samaritan) to attain eternal life. In the parable, it was the Samaritan that had the "wrong" (if any) theology and the ones with the "right" theology, the priest and Levite, were not worthy of eternal life based on Jesus' parable.

Perhaps proper theology isn't as vital to our eternal destiny as we might think...

 

[cpizzle]

Great discussion!

My point of view....

Salvation comes form believing in Christ as God's Son and our Saviour.  The Death, burial, and resurrection tell us how Christ saves us, but a full understanding of that is not necessary for Salvation (however a rejection of the gospel would certainly show a lack of "saving" faith.)

Are you saying that someone today can be saved without believing in the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ?

I am saying the ignorance of proper theology does not preclude someone from salvation.  I can't imagine an instance of someone being saved today who has not heard about the death, burial, and resurrection, but that knowledge is not necessary for salvation.  Our example of course are the disciples who confessed Christ, but didn't understand his upcoming sacrifice.  I do not think that someone who has heard the "gospel" and rejects the death or resurrection can be saved, because they are rejecting the true Christ.

Hope this helps.

 

[RAIDER]

Great discussion!

My point of view....

Salvation comes form believing in Christ as God's Son and our Saviour.  The Death, burial, and resurrection tell us how Christ saves us, but a full understanding of that is not necessary for Salvation (however a rejection of the gospel would certainly show a lack of "saving" faith.)

Are you saying that someone today can be saved without believing in the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ?

I am saying the ignorance of proper theology does not preclude someone from salvation.  I can't imagine an instance of someone being saved today who has not heard about the death, burial, and resurrection, but that knowledge is not necessary for salvation.  Our example of course are the disciples who confessed Christ, but didn't understand his upcoming sacrifice.  I do not think that someone who has heard the "gospel" and rejects the death or resurrection can be saved, because they are rejecting the true Christ.

Hope this helps.

I would agree with you if we were speaking about the Gospel of the Kingdom which the disciples preached while on earth with Christ.  We are now speaking about the Gospel of which Paul spoke.

1 Corinthians 15:1-4
"Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

Romans 1:16
"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek."

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Great discussion!

My point of view....

Salvation comes form believing in Christ as God's Son and our Saviour.  The Death, burial, and resurrection tell us how Christ saves us, but a full understanding of that is not necessary for Salvation (however a rejection of the gospel would certainly show a lack of "saving" faith.)

Are you saying that someone today can be saved without believing in the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ?

I am saying the ignorance of proper theology does not preclude someone from salvation.  I can't imagine an instance of someone being saved today who has not heard about the death, burial, and resurrection, but that knowledge is not necessary for salvation.  Our example of course are the disciples who confessed Christ, but didn't understand his upcoming sacrifice.  I do not think that someone who has heard the "gospel" and rejects the death or resurrection can be saved, because they are rejecting the true Christ.

Hope this helps.

I would agree with you if we were speaking about the Gospel of the Kingdom which the disciples preached while on earth with Christ.  We are now speaking about the Gospel of which Paul spoke.

1 Corinthians 15:1-4
"Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

Romans 1:16
"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek."

I agree it is a different Gospel. The disciples received their gospel at the mouth of their Master while walking with Him and Paul got his from visions. I believe in Galatians he readily admits his gospel is different from theirs:

For I would have you know, brothers, that the gospel that was preached by me is not man's gospel. For I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ.

Paul made it a specific point to try to avoid those very same disciples as a group:

Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to visit Cephas and remained with him fifteen days. But I saw none of the other apostles except James the Lord's brother.

Paul has another vision telling him to go back to the disciples and he kinda looks at them in a minimizing fashion:

I went up because of a revelation and set before them (though privately before those who seemed influential...)

...and when James and Cephas and John, who seemed to be pillars...

He says he even condemned Peter while rebuking the behavior of James:

But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. For before certain men came from James, he was eating with the Gentiles; but when they came he drew back and separated himself, fearing the circumcision party. And the rest of the Jews acted hypocritically along with him, so that even Barnabas was led astray by their hypocrisy.

In actuality, Paul "diminished" the Jerusalem pillars, said they added "nothing" to his spiritual development, claimed he was taught by Jesus through visions a teaching that was different to what He taught His disciples while on earth, and claims to have rebuked Peter for following the Jewish teachings of James.

Yeah, I kinda believe Paul's "gospel" was a whole lot different than the gospel the disciples were teaching. If anything, he changed the same gospel that Jesus taught and told His disciples to spread.

 

[prophet]

Reminder
:
. Mat 5:17-20
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets:I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven:but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

. Mat 13:13-15
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables:because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. 14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

. Mar 4:10-12
10 And when he was alone, they that were about him with the twelve asked of him the parable.
11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God:but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

God's plan A was to remain a stumbling block ( fulfill the Law), until the death,burial, and resurrection.
So, no, the Disciples weren't preaching the D/B/R.

But, as R2D2 said a few posts back, It is the same good news, that Jesus has come.

Earnestly Contend.

 

[IFB X-Files]

When Did Peter Know the Gospel?
Doug Stauffer

http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?m=t&s=1116141650512

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=RAIDER]I believe that may be why Paul called the gospel of the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ "my gospel".  It was different than what the disciples were preaching.[/quote]

I just noticed this. The other disciples were also teaching about the D, B, and R.