Salvation Does Not Require Turning From Sin

[Dr. Huk-N-Duck]

Do you agree that turning from sin is necessary for salvation?

I believe repentance (Luke 13:5) is a necessary prerequisite for salvation, but not turning away from sin. The Greek word used in Scripture is metanoia, which means change. If this is true, why do preachers talk about “turn or burn” when explaining the plan of salvation?

 

[Baptist Renegade]

Repentance IS turning from sin!

It is a change of heart and change of mind regarding everything about yourself! It does not mean you stop sinning but that you stop wanting to sin and it is a grievous matter when you do sin.

 

[abcaines]

A true conversion WILL result in turning away from sin as naturally as a newborn baby will begin to breathe upon leaving the womb.

 

[Dr. Huk-N-Duck]

Repentance IS turning from sin!

It is a change of heart and change of mind regarding everything about yourself! It does not mean you stop sinning but that you stop wanting to sin and it is a grievous matter when you do sin.

Hypothetically - Let’s say you are pastor and you have an unsaved, unmarred couple (living together) attending your church. They one day ask for an appointment and sit in your office asking for you to lead them through the plan of salvation. Do you think they can be saved while continuing to live together in sin and not confessing such?

 

[Dr. Huk-N-Duck]

A true conversion WILL result in turning away from sin as naturally as a newborn baby will begin to breathe upon leaving the womb.

Agreed. However, the only actual requirement is confession, not the actual turning from sin.

 

[abcaines]

Agreed. However, the only actual requirement is confession, not the actual turning from sin.

Breathing is required by all life forms. Breathing WILL happen or there is no life.

 

[ALAYMAN]

Agreed. However, the only actual requirement is confession, not the actual turning from sin.

How does sanctification connect with justification?

 

[Dr. Huk-N-Duck]

How does sanctification connect with justification?

My understanding…I’d say sanctification is related to post-salvation whereas justification is related more to the act of salvation.

ABCaines is talking more about Christians bearing fruit. I’m only focusing on the actual ABCs of salvation. No where is there a biblical requirement to “turn from sin” in order to be saved. Only Accept, Believe and Confess. When a preacher says something about “turning from sin” to get saved, is it not heretical?

You didn’t answer my question, but my pastor has said that a person can continue living outside of wedlock, or even living a gay lifestyle, for decades and be truly saved, so long as they have done the ABCs of salvation. Turning from sin isn’t necessary, although we’d hope to eventually see Christian fruit.

 

[ALAYMAN]

My understanding…I’d say sanctification is related to post-salvation whereas justification is related more to the act of salvation.

ABCaines is talking more about Christians bearing fruit. I’m only focusing on the actual ABCs of salvation. No where is there a biblical requirement to “turn from sin” in order to be saved. Only Accept, Believe and Confess. When a preacher says something about “turning from sin” to get saved, is it not heretical?

You didn’t answer my question, but my pastor has said that a person can continue living outside of wedlock, or even living a gay lifestyle, for decades and be truly saved, so long as they have done the ABCs of salvation. Turning from sin isn’t necessary, although we’d hope to eventually see Christian fruit.

I answered it, albeit cryptically. When you study and look at the issue with a broader scope of the word ( and work) of “salvation” you will (likely) find that the “greasy (or cheap) grace” that repentant-less salvation denotes is incomplete. You referred to “the ABCs of salvation” as if salvation only consists of the initial act of regeneration (justification) but in reality any analysis of Biblical salvation MUST address the continuity of the whole package (regeneration, sanctification, and glorification). There will be no repentance after we reach the stage of glorification, but until then the entire Christian life is to be characterized by a life and attitude of repentance.

 

[abcaines]

ABCaines is talking more about Christians bearing fruit.

Nope. I'm saying turning will happen naturally. J Vernon McGee said it best when he told his congregation he could no more turn the palm of his hand towards them without turning the back of his hand to himself than one who turns to Christ cannot do so without turning their back to sin. It's not so much of a requirement as much as it is unavoidable.

 

[Dr. Huk-N-Duck]

Nope. I'm saying turning will happen naturally. J Vernon McGee said it best when he told his congregation he could no more turn the palm of his hand towards them without turning the back of his hand to himself than one who turns to Christ cannot do so without turning their back to sin. It's not so much of a requirement as much as it is unavoidable.

I see what you’re saying now. I agree with that sentiment.

 

[Dr. Huk-N-Duck]

I answered it, albeit cryptically. When you study and look at the issue with a broader scope of the word ( and work) of “salvation” you will (likely) find that the “greasy (or cheap) grace” that repentant-less salvation denotes is incomplete. You referred to “the ABCs of salvation” as if salvation only consists of the initial act of regeneration (justification) but in reality any analysis of Biblical salvation MUST address the continuity of the whole package (regeneration, sanctification, and glorification). There will be no repentance after we reach the stage of glorification, but until then the entire Christian life is to be characterized by a life and attitude of repentance.

Just out of curiosity - Why do you think my pastor believes a person can be truly saved and yet also living in sin for decades without showing fruit?

 

[abcaines]

Yes, we will still sin but we will enter into conviction when we do, as BR pointed out.

When I leave this life, my first desire is to see my Savior's face and fall at His feet in total worship, worship that will not be tainted by my sin.

 

[ALAYMAN]

Just out of curiosity - Why do you think my pastor believes a person can be truly saved and yet also living in sin for decades without showing fruit?

It’s a long-standing theological difference in people from two different camps regarding the issue of what it means to repent. People in your pastors camp teach the doctrine of the carnal Christian (sometimes to an extreme). The opposing view is usually from people in the reformed branch of theology like John MacArthur. A lot of the doctrine of carnal Christianity and cheap Grace started with Lewis Sperry Chafer. You can Google his name and those terms like cheap grace, or carnal Christian and get the background. A different way of answering your question is those from your pastors view believe that the lordship
salvation/repentance side of the equation (MacArthur for instance) are teaching a Catholic version of work’s salvation, which often is a misrepresentation of their view.

 

[Dr. Huk-N-Duck]

A different way of answering your question is those from your pastors view believe that the lordship
salvation/repentance side of the equation (MacArthur for instance) are teaching a Catholic version of work’s salvation, which often is a representation of their view.

It’s interesting you mention that, because he quite often accuses some Baptists of basically practicing Catholicism, with the Southern Baptists being a frequent target. However, he’s also admitted that many of them have shot back at him accusing him of having an “anything goes” Christian philosophy.

 

[abcaines]

The Bible also speaks of a seared conscious. The aim of 1Timothy 4:2 is that of one who is possibly unregenerate; certainly, apostate.

Other than God's grace, there is no reason why someone in this situation should be allowed to continue.

Or do you disregard the riches of His kindness, tolerance, and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness leads you to repentance? Romans 2:4 BSB

 

[ALAYMAN]

It’s interesting you mention that, because he quite often accuses some Baptists of basically practicing Catholicism, with the Southern Baptists being a frequent target. However, he’s also admitted that many of them have shot back at him accusing him of having an “anything goes” Christian philosophy.

Yes, the usual motivation of the “carnal Christian” view of repentance is to keep salvation and the gospel simple, to not make our evangelism a form of litmus test type analysis of the lost person’s degree of “fruit” as an evidence of their genuine conversion.

 

[Dr. Huk-N-Duck]

Yes, the usual motivation of the “carnal Christian” view of repentance is to keep salvation and the gospel simple, to not make our evangelism a form of litmus test type analysis of the lost person’s degree of “fruit” as an evidence of their genuine conversion.

His theology/philosophy seems similar, yet also vastly different than the IFB church (Bob Jones oriented) that I grew up around. I think his undergraduate came from a Churches of Christ school, but he attended more traditional IFB schools (PCC/BJU) for graduate school.

 

[Ransom]

I believe repentance (Luke 13:5) is a necessary prerequisite for salvation, but not turning away from sin. The Greek word used in Scripture is metanoia, which means change. If this is true, why do preachers talk about “turn or burn” when explaining the plan of salvation?

What is the change in question?

Now do the word strepho.

 

[Ransom]

An additional thought:

“Therefore say to the house of Israel, Thus says the Lord GOD: Repent and turn away from your idols, and turn away your faces from all your abominations." (Ezek. 14:6)​

The New Testament isn't the only word on the meaning of repentance. The three phrases I've underlined in the above verse all translate forms of the same Hebrew root word.