"Re-Baptizing" 2 former FBC bus kids, now adults, in 2013

[GoSteelers]

After going through records of our church in 2013, I realized that we had 2 adults (among others) who accepted Christ as their Savior this year and where baptized publicly.  What both had in common was they were bus kids at FBC and were "saved" and "baptized".  Both had similar stories of not understanding what they were doing and one said they were baptized at least 5 times one year. 

I am a firm believer in God's grace protecting us, reaching kids and even the bus ministry (at least for it's time).  But I have to wonder how many will never consider their salvation because a bus worker had a goal to reach and gave them false assurance.

Questions:
Does anybody still think these tactics of rushing kids in and out are still being used?

Could it be said that FBC gave more people a false hope then actually the knowledge of Christ as Lord?  Meaning: Will more people be in Hell because of FBC then in Heaven?

Not sure of the answers.

 

[bgwilkinson]

After going through records of our church in 2013, I realized that we had 2 adults (among others) who accepted Christ as their Savior this year and where baptized publicly.  What both had in common was they were bus kids at FBC and were "saved" and "baptized".  Both had similar stories of not understanding what they were doing and one said they were baptized at least 5 times one year. 

I am a firm believer in God's grace protecting us, reaching kids and even the bus ministry (at least for it's time).  But I have to wonder how many will never consider their salvation because a bus worker had a goal to reach and gave them false assurance.

Questions:
Does anybody still think these tactics of rushing kids in and out are still being used?

Could it be said that FBC gave more people a false hope then actually the knowledge of Christ as Lord?  Meaning: Will more people be in Hell because of FBC then in Heaven?

Not sure of the answers.

That has also been my concern over the years.

Many children have claimed to have been baptized as many as ten times.

This was during our big 25,000 baptism push.

We ran them through assembly line like just to make a number to brag about.

 

[WESLEY]

From what I understand, no one under the age of 14 is baptized much anymore as they have to have parents permission

 

[Binaca Chugger]

From what I understand, no one under the age of 14 is baptized much anymore as they have to have parents permission

Seriously???  All this means is that the parents sign a form before the kid gets on the bus.  The parents don't read it and don't really care.

 

[Binaca Chugger]

My question is if you had them wait to get baptized until the Fall Program so you could win the Trip of a Lifetime?

If not, you could always give them assurance of salvation and re-baptize them during the Spring Program to help bolster your numbers!

 

[brainisengaged]

My question is if you had them wait to get baptized until the Fall Program so you could win the Trip of a Lifetime?

If not, you could always give them assurance of salvation and re-baptize them during the Spring Program to help bolster your numbers!

Very true! How I hated the fall/spring programs under JS! The entire thrust was for us minions to work hard enough to win our SS teacher a great expensive man-trip with The Preach and his frat boys.

I must say...things are different now. In the fall / spring program, no lavish prizes. And you don't work to win a prize for your leader.

And re baptisms, every person baptized is photographed and documented. Not to mention queried and dealt with publicly.

Many of your perceptions are dead-on accurate for the way things were. It does seem to be different now. It is odd having a non-megalomaniac for a Pastor...less exciting, certainly, but more stable.

 

[sword]

Quote from: Brainsengaged on January 28, 2014, 11:14:44 PM

I must say...things are different now. In the fall / spring program, no lavish prizes. And you don't work to win a prize for your leader.

And re baptisms, every person baptized is photographed and documented. Not to mention queried and dealt with publicly.

Many of your perceptions are dead-on accurate for the way things were. It does seem to be different now. It is odd having a non-megalomaniac for a Pastor...less exciting, certainly, but more stable.

To quote Tom's wise post

Tom Brennan
Sr. Member
 
on: January 11, 2014, 09:28:19 AM

John Wilkerson's wisdom is how quiet this forum is. 

May it always be so

 

[Still There]

No, I don't think so anymore with Pastor Wilkerson.  Before anyone goes to the baptistry, he asks them questions salvation questions and makes sure each and every person understands what salvation and baptism means.  That I do like.  And he does it to everyone who comes forward.  If they don't understand, then he makes the soul winner go back and talk to the person to be sure they understand clearly what salvation is. 

 

[Smellin Coffee]

When I was in college, my dad was one of Hyles' personal bodyguards so during Pastors' School week, I also was on the guard detail.

There was one year in particular that the college students were let out of class in order to go soul-winning and bring in the converts into the church to be baptized in front of the guests during breaks. These converts were not coming in at all so I witnessed Hyles telling Lapina to head over to City Baptist and grab a few kids to be baptized. That happened the entire week where Christian school kids would get baptized at the applause of the delegates because it was perceived that the kids were new converts.

 

[IFB X-Files]

There was one year in particular that the college students were let out of class in order to go soul-winning and bring in the converts into the church to be baptized in front of the guests during breaks. These converts were not coming in at all so I witnessed Hyles telling Lapina to head over to City Baptist and grab a few kids to be baptized. 

A TRUE HACker would have stepped up and volunteered!  Shame on you!

 

[Binaca Chugger]

When I was in college, my dad was one of Hyles' personal bodyguards so during Pastors' School week, I also was on the guard detail.

There was one year in particular that the college students were let out of class in order to go soul-winning and bring in the converts into the church to be baptized in front of the guests during breaks. These converts were not coming in at all so I witnessed Hyles telling Lapina to head over to City Baptist and grab a few kids to be baptized. That happened the entire week where Christian school kids would get baptized at the applause of the delegated because it was perceived that the kids were new converts.

BWAH HA HA HA HA!!  Classic! 

I remember one year they wanted to prove their college enrollment was up to the delegates.  So, they published a list of all students enrolled in HAC.  Many of us "HB Punks" were shocked to find our names listed as students of HAC while we were still in high school and never went over to the college campus.

 

[bgwilkinson]

Smoke and mirrors for many years.

Now most people know how it was done.

Ken Minton was right.

We have compared notes.

 

[BALAAM]

When I was in college, my dad was one of Hyles' personal bodyguards so during Pastors' School week, I also was on the guard detail.

There was one year in particular that the college students were let out of class in order to go soul-winning and bring in the converts into the church to be baptized in front of the guests during breaks. These converts were not coming in at all so I witnessed Hyles telling Lapina to head over to City Baptist and grab a few kids to be baptized. That happened the entire week where Christian school kids would get baptized at the applause of the delegates because it was perceived that the kids were new converts.

NO! Say it ain't so!  That would make it sound like JH was not always totally honest!

In 1990 or whenever it was that one of these scandals broke out, we were told over and over that JH knew nothing about dh 'indiscretions'. I absolutely believed it without a question. Since then, after some of our offspring marrying into families who were raised here, I knew that some family members did not attend fbch and were noticeably negative. This even though the parents were stalwart members. I have since had a chance to talk to a few of them and probably between 10 - 12 people told me that everybody knew what was going on in the youth department. Four of these people that I know for sure went to jh and told him and he refused to listen or chased them from his office.

 

[bgwilkinson]

Try asking what happened at the Bill Rice Ranch when DH led the Youth group down there.

It was the last time FBCH was welcome at the Bill Rice Ranch.

Bill Rice had a permanent falling out with JH over what happened and asked JH to never come back to the ranch.

 

[BALAAM]

Try asking what happened at the Bill Rice Ranch when DH led the Youth group down there.

It was the last time FBCH was welcome at the Bill Rice Ranch.

Bill Rice had a permanent falling out with JH over what happened and asked JH to never come back to the ranch.

Okay, I will send Eddie L or Ray Y an email and ask them what happened. I am sure I will hear the truth from them.

 

[brainisengaged]

LOL, BALAAM! Let us know what they say to you on the subject! I was wondering if Bill Rice is still alive. Maybe he'd appreciate a call from me, asking the same question?

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Try asking what happened at the Bill Rice Ranch when DH led the Youth group down there.

It was the last time FBCH was welcome at the Bill Rice Ranch.

Bill Rice had a permanent falling out with JH over what happened and asked JH to never come back to the ranch.

Although I was in elementary school, I do recall the falling out but not the reasons why. That is when the church bought Hyles-Duckles Bible Camp.

However, BRR thought they would give us another shot my senior year at HB. It was a train wreck (I was there). Our kids were arrogant, trash-talking, dominated the sporting events (boy events), dissing the counselors, sneaking through the camp at night and the last straw was the trashing of a couple of church buses.

What a week that was! From what I understand, it anchored down the decision several years earlier that BRR was not the place for FBC kids.

 

[prophet]

Try asking what happened at the Bill Rice Ranch when DH led the Youth group down there.

It was the last time FBCH was welcome at the Bill Rice Ranch.

Bill Rice had a permanent falling out with JH over what happened and asked JH to never come back to the ranch.

Although I was in elementary school, I do recall the falling out but not the reasons why. That is when the church bought Hyles-Duckles Bible Camp.

However, BRR thought they would give us another shot my senior year at HB. It was a train wreck (I was there). Our kids were arrogant, trash-talking, dominated the sporting events (boy events), dissing the counselors, sneaking through the camp at night and the last straw was the trashing of a couple of church buses.

What a week that was! From what I understand, it anchored down the decision several years earlier that BRR was not the place for FBC kids.

My sister was crushed, she really loved the place, had learned sign language, and begged to go back to the BRR.

Anishinaabe

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Try asking what happened at the Bill Rice Ranch when DH led the Youth group down there.

It was the last time FBCH was welcome at the Bill Rice Ranch.

Bill Rice had a permanent falling out with JH over what happened and asked JH to never come back to the ranch.

Although I was in elementary school, I do recall the falling out but not the reasons why. That is when the church bought Hyles-Duckles Bible Camp.

However, BRR thought they would give us another shot my senior year at HB. It was a train wreck (I was there). Our kids were arrogant, trash-talking, dominated the sporting events (boy events), dissing the counselors, sneaking through the camp at night and the last straw was the trashing of a couple of church buses.

What a week that was! From what I understand, it anchored down the decision several years earlier that BRR was not the place for FBC kids.

My sister was crushed, she really loved the place, had learned sign language, and begged to go back to the BRR.

Anishinaabe

Some of the stuff we (as a youth group) did was pretty funny. Other stuff, pretty messed up. The counselor in our cabin was a HAC student named Oscar. Don't remember his last name. There were several times he had to leave in the middle of the night to "get help" in controlling our group. Remember, this is with our own church counselors within the same cabin (Lapina, Cantway, Engstrom, etc). From capturing the ducks and letting them loose on Oscar's bed in the middle of the night to saran-wrapping the toilet on another counselor to loading Engstrom's sleeping bag with shaving cream while he was asleep, to the throwing of the "little red balls" after dark, one dared not sleep during the night. However, the trashing of the buses (don't know who did them but do know they were in our group) was well over-the-top.

Sorry to hear about your sister. I really hope she was able to eventually excell despite not being allowed back due to our behavior.

 

[prophet]

Try asking what happened at the Bill Rice Ranch when DH led the Youth group down there.

It was the last time FBCH was welcome at the Bill Rice Ranch.

Bill Rice had a permanent falling out with JH over what happened and asked JH to never come back to the ranch.

Although I was in elementary school, I do recall the falling out but not the reasons why. That is when the church bought Hyles-Duckles Bible Camp.

However, BRR thought they would give us another shot my senior year at HB. It was a train wreck (I was there). Our kids were arrogant, trash-talking, dominated the sporting events (boy events), dissing the counselors, sneaking through the camp at night and the last straw was the trashing of a couple of church buses.

What a week that was! From what I understand, it anchored down the decision several years earlier that BRR was not the place for FBC kids.

My sister was crushed, she really loved the place, had learned sign language, and begged to go back to the BRR.

Anishinaabe

Some of the stuff we (as a youth group) did was pretty funny. Other stuff, pretty messed up. The counselor in our cabin was a HAC student named Oscar. Don't remember his last name. There were several times he had to leave in the middle of the night to "get help" in controlling our group. Remember, this is with our own church counselors within the same cabin (Lapina, Cantway, Engstrom, etc). From capturing the ducks and letting them loose on Oscar's bed in the middle of the night to saran-wrapping the toilet on another counselor to loading Engstrom's sleeping bag with shaving cream while he was asleep, to the throwing of the "little red balls" after dark, one dared not sleep during the night. However, the trashing of the buses (don't know who did them but do know they were in our group) was well over-the-top.

Sorry to hear about your sister. I really hope she was able to eventually excell despite not being allowed back due to our behavior.

 
God had a path for her, and she has done well, despite not getting to ride horses in the summer.

Anishinaabe