Opinion, Please
- Thread starter IFB X-Files
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Bruh said:
I do not know the "whys" but of course this would soon be obvious. I had to admire them to do that. It took guts. However, I was getting ticked (hey, its just me) but while pastor was explaining all this, he couldn't keep his hands off of her.
So pastor said they've asked God to forgive them and wanted to confess before the church (right thing to do) and ask for our forgiveness. My question (not asked) is when did you ask forgiveness? After you first fornicated or after you got caught by her getting pregnant? And where are we going forward? Are they under strict control and separation or are they still fornicating?
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[quote author=IFB X-Files]So pastor said they've asked God to forgive them and wanted to confess before the church (right thing to do) and ask for our forgiveness. My question (not asked) is when did you ask forgiveness? After you first fornicated or after you got caught by her getting pregnant?[/quote]
Why does it matter? Was David less repentant because it took Nathan calling him out before he confessed? Does repentance have an expiration date?
[quote author=IFB X-Files]And where are we going forward?[/quote]
This is a good question.
[quote author=IFB X-Files]Are they under strict control and separation or are they still fornicating? [/quote]
And there are clearly other options. Perfectly viable options.
Why does it matter? Was David less repentant because it took Nathan calling him out before he confessed? Does repentance have an expiration date?
[quote author=IFB X-Files]And where are we going forward?[/quote]
This is a good question.
[quote author=IFB X-Files]Are they under strict control and separation or are they still fornicating? [/quote]
And there are clearly other options. Perfectly viable options.
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Some people "don't see outside the church", I do. As I mentioned in my recent post I work with the DCS and I work with kids who have babies. They have no idea what it's like raising a real live baby. Folks, it's not a doll. It requires 24/7 care. Have you not read in papers or heard on the news about what goes on when kids have kids, the abuse and death?!! It's not a happy ending and if you say the way she dresses and acts, it's surely not going to be a happy ending. I've seen the abuse not only working with DCS but also as a foster parent for many years. The abuse these kids go through. I've been on the receiving end of the abused child when DCS and police have called me in the middle of the night and have asked us to take a child. If I could talk to the girl and encourage her to give up the child or do what's for the child I wish I could. She's the age of my youngest and I surely know that my youngest is not ready to be a mother! This really breaks my heart. I wish I could take that little baby and just love it to no end.
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Still There said:
I agree wholeheartedly, and would add...
If they are not smart, spiritual, mature enough to keep their clothes on now, they probably aren't smart/spiritual and mature enough to raise a child to the glory of the Lord.
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Still There said:
I'm pretty certain most people, even kids, that have kids realize this.
[quote author=Still There]Have you not read in papers or heard on the news about what goes on when kids have kids, the abuse and death?!![/quote]
Would you like me to point you to the article about the fundamentalist pediatrician and engineer couple in their 40s that beat their child to death? Clearly fundamentalists, pediatricians, engineers or 40-yr olds shouldn't be allowed to have children.
[quote author=Still There]It's not a happy ending and if you say the way she dresses and acts, it's surely not going to be a happy ending.[/quote]
Yes. You have absolutely no way of knowing this so instead you advocate for forcing someone to give up their child against their will.
[quote author=Still There]I've seen the abuse not only working with DCS but also as a foster parent for many years. The abuse these kids go through. I've been on the receiving end of the abused child when DCS and police have called me in the middle of the night and have asked us to take a child.[/quote]
So you've been exposed to a part of the system that is specifically for abused children and think it is the normative situation?
[quote author=Still There]If I could talk to the girl and encourage her to give up the child or do what's for the child I wish I could.[/quote]
Maybe the best thing for the child is for his or her mother and/or father to raise him/her?
[quote author=Still There]She's the age of my youngest and I surely know that my youngest is not ready to be a mother! This really breaks my heart. I wish I could take that little baby and just love it to no end.
[/quote]
I wasn't ready to raise a child when I was 25 even though I was quite mature/stable in pretty much every normal metric used. I wasn't ready when my second was born soon after that or my third several years later. I thought I was ready, but it doesn't take long to realize that you don't have a clue really what you are doing, learn to take things a day at a time, and pray for patience and mercy for the next time you have to handle a situation you have no clue how to handle.
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I've thought about this over the course of this thread. I can almost understand nearly all viewpoints presented, but I have to back up and think about if it were my daughter or son. Would I want my grandchild to be adopted out?
We don't choose our children; our children do not choose us. God has that all figured. We may not understand why these young people are chosen to conceive a child out of wedlock when many good married couples are infertile. Yet, God has it under control. No, it's not His perfect will, obviously, since premarital relationships are clearly wrong in His Word.
But, still, they - as young and seemingly foolish as we may think them to be - are the parents to whom God is giving this child. I think they ought to have a say and through counsel make the decision themselves.
We don't choose our children; our children do not choose us. God has that all figured. We may not understand why these young people are chosen to conceive a child out of wedlock when many good married couples are infertile. Yet, God has it under control. No, it's not His perfect will, obviously, since premarital relationships are clearly wrong in His Word.
But, still, they - as young and seemingly foolish as we may think them to be - are the parents to whom God is giving this child. I think they ought to have a say and through counsel make the decision themselves.
Patriotic's words are wisdom:
But, still, they - as young and seemingly foolish as we may think them to be - are the parents to whom God is giving this child. I think they ought to have a say and through counsel make the decision themselves.
Choosing adoption can be the most loving, unselfish act young parents can do for their child.
That being said, I know young, unmarried parents who have successfully raised their children. I know adopted children who are grateful for the family they were adopted into. I know adopted children who have reconnected and established a relationship with their birth parents.
There is no "one size fits all" solution to babies having babies.
I know one thing for sure...as a church, we should pray for and support the families involved.
Never forget...in this day and age, they could have opted for abortion...
But, still, they - as young and seemingly foolish as we may think them to be - are the parents to whom God is giving this child. I think they ought to have a say and through counsel make the decision themselves.
Choosing adoption can be the most loving, unselfish act young parents can do for their child.
That being said, I know young, unmarried parents who have successfully raised their children. I know adopted children who are grateful for the family they were adopted into. I know adopted children who have reconnected and established a relationship with their birth parents.
There is no "one size fits all" solution to babies having babies.
I know one thing for sure...as a church, we should pray for and support the families involved.
Never forget...in this day and age, they could have opted for abortion...
patriotic said:
Well, without wanting to be unkind, it's the parents fault this happened in the first place by letting their children get into a situation where this can happen. And now you want some say-so? The parents should be at the altar begging forgiveness for failing their children.
And just so you know, we raised 3 who, before they went to Bible college, were NEVER alone with a member of the opposite sex.
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IFB X-Files said:
Why should anyone be to blame? I know a situation where the parents reared their 4 kids as godly as can be yet one went astray. The others, under the same household, same love, same environment, same teaching all ended up in what would be considered a "good" place spiritually yet the one took a different path.
Kids make choices and just because kids seem to avoid evil doesn't mean they are not still sinning.
Another situation I know about is where the daughter is home-schooled and yet still sneaks out to her boyfriend's house to "cuddle" in a "non-sexual manner" (their terms). The parents were told several times but always denied it and eventually she admitted it to them. So sheltering them doesn't always work.
A third situation is where the father was a drunk, left his family and his mother was sleeping with several different men in the house. Yet two of her three boys ended up in the pastorate. Ultimately it is the choice of the kids themselves.
Our kids, we don't have such a rule (not saying that it is good or bad to have one) about being alone with the opposite sex. We do have a rule that they can't be in a house alone but in a car or in public, we allow it. We have taught our kids right and wrong and it is their decision what they do. They know they are accountable before their God and will have to answer to Him. But it is their choice. So far with 1 in college and the second will be next sememster, no "damage". Does that make my way right? Not necessarily. But my wife and I have done what we could to teach them right from wrong and now on their own they are going to have to learn how to stand against temptations. And if they end up in a place where they need compassion and forgiveness, we are here for them to help them through it.
There is no right or wrong in these kinds of rules and the parents may or may not be to blame. We aren't in a position to make that judgement. All we can do is be Jesus to our kids, teach them the things He taught, demonstrate the compassion He demonstrated and help them grow in their relationship with Him. The results are between them and God.
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I have two beautiful adopted daughters. Both were through the DCS system. Every year on their birthday's I always pray for the mom's who gave up these beautiful girls. The mother's in my situation were older and drugs and alcohol played a big part in why DCS got involved. My girls know they are adopted and I've told them that at any time they want to know their background (unfortunately DCS doesn't give much) I will tell them. Both have decided they don't want to know, I'm their mom and their dad is their dad. I know that adoption is not for everyone and I'm not condemning the kids, but if they decide to keep the baby, hopefully they'll get some guidance and wisdom on child rearing from someone.
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You tell that young lady hi, from her buddy UP North. They(we) are getting old...Still There said:
Are you guys gonna take any more?
Your hubby still hanging around stiffs?
We were just through there last week, but we never do see everybody.
I still haven't seen that house.
O well, p.m. me that youngsters' graduation invite, next year, or the one after...whichever class she's in.
Maybe we'll drop in.
Anishinaabe
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It's all about the home life. What kind of support group will this girl's family be. This boy's? Will they really rely on the church family?
16 yr old boys talk big. Is someone guiding him? He should pursue a trade, vocation, career, with more zeal, now... Prepare himself for accepting the responsibility that he has acknowledged is necessary.
If the baby will be in danger, adoption is a viable option.
If the baby has financially stable, involved grandparents, then family is ,of course, the best answer.
I agree with Patriotic's point...God knew who this child would have as parents, etc. And it sounds like these 2 may have more normal aspirations, and a desire to do right.
I just pray that God steps in, and sends them a wise counsellor.
Anishinaabe
16 yr old boys talk big. Is someone guiding him? He should pursue a trade, vocation, career, with more zeal, now... Prepare himself for accepting the responsibility that he has acknowledged is necessary.
If the baby will be in danger, adoption is a viable option.
If the baby has financially stable, involved grandparents, then family is ,of course, the best answer.
I agree with Patriotic's point...God knew who this child would have as parents, etc. And it sounds like these 2 may have more normal aspirations, and a desire to do right.
I just pray that God steps in, and sends them a wise counsellor.
Anishinaabe
We live in the world of the bizarre. The kids showed up for church today. During handshaking time I heard folks going by CONGRATULATING them! I have to give the benefit of the doubt and think they only said that because they don't know what else to say. But then, who knows? Sometimes Christians are fruitcakes (no pun for this time of year)!
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IFB X-Files said:
For the majority of them it probably was just an awkward response, not knowing what else to say. Honestly, you want them to know you love and care for them, but you can't condone the sin, yet it's not the baby's fault by any means, and news of baby is usually congratulated, and you definitely don't wish to berate the young parents in public esp when it's not your place to do so. Definitely awkward.
I thought I'd post an update about this young couple. They were married in March. The young man joined the Marines (that was planned even before she got pregnant) in May. The baby boy was born in June and today was brought to church. He's cute.
The mom is living with her father until her husband gets out of boot camp. The husband has not seen his new son.
Only time will tell how this all works out. Him being in the military is probably a blessing is disguise as I see no way that a 17 yr. old could support a family.
The young mom seems very happy to be a mom and is adjusting to her new life. I'm praying this young couple learns from their error and does right going forward. Time will tell.
The mom is living with her father until her husband gets out of boot camp. The husband has not seen his new son.
Only time will tell how this all works out. Him being in the military is probably a blessing is disguise as I see no way that a 17 yr. old could support a family.
The young mom seems very happy to be a mom and is adjusting to her new life. I'm praying this young couple learns from their error and does right going forward. Time will tell.
I trust that they will find a good church wherever he gets stationed. There is a very high divorce rate for 1st enlistment service members in new marriages. Many are the reasons but long training periods & deployments overseas are some of the biggest.IFB X-Files said:
Just like Marines go through long training exercises a young couple would do well to spend time at quality marriage seminars which would aid in solidifying their marriage relationship. Also they would be wise to find 1 or more older solid married military couples who can mentor & encourage them in the Lord, that would be good to pray for them.
Do the Scriptures have anything to say about this?
I've seen a lot of opinion, and anecdotes, and theory, but not much Scripture.
I've seen a lot of opinion, and anecdotes, and theory, but not much Scripture.