*sigh* Blindness happened only in part, but NOT unto the elect. (11:7)
But let me ask you a question. Whom do you think is "all Israel"?
Once Saved, Always Saved?
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But let me ask you a question. Whom do you think is "all Israel"?
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I believe Israel is the nation descended from Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. It is the nation that will exist as long as there is a sun, moon and stars in the sky.
Jer 31:35 Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:
Jer 31:36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
Jer 31:37 Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.
It is the Israel that "God scattered among the heathen and dispersed through countries: according to their way and according to their doings I judged them" (Jer 31:19). It is the nation that God regathered out of all countries and put them back into their own land that the heathen shall know that I am the Lord, saith the Lord God" (Jer 31:21-24). It is the nation that God will sprinkle clean water upon and cleanse them from all their filthiness and from all their idols and give them a new heart (Jer 31:25-26).
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Uh, what about Joshua 15:20, 47?
"This is the inheritance of the tribe of the children of Judah according to their families. . . . Ashdod with her towns and her villages, Gaza with her towns and her villages, unto the river of Egypt, and the great sea, and the border thereof."
See also 1 Kings 8:65, "And at that time Solomon held a feast, and all Israel with him, a great congregation, from the entering in of Hamath unto the river of Egypt, before the LORD our God."
2 Chronicles 7:8: "Also at the same time Solomon kept the feast seven days, and all Israel with him, a very great congregation, from the entering in of Hamath unto the river of Egypt."
With regard to the Euphrates, see 1 Chronicles 5:9: "And eastward he inhabited unto the entering in of the wilderness from the river Euphrates: because their cattle were multiplied in the land of Gilead."
2 Samuel 8:3, "David smote also Hadadezer, the son of Rehob, king of Zobah, as he went to recover his border at the river Euphrates."
1 Chronicles 18:3, "And David smote Hadadezer king of Zobah unto Hamath, as he went to stablish his dominion by the river Euphrates."
1 Kings 4:21, "And Solomon reigned over all kingdoms from the river unto the land of the Philistines, and unto the border of Egypt: they brought presents, and served Solomon all the days of his life."
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What about the clear prophecies that God would regather the Jews to their homeland to never be driven out again. Why spiritualize that away? To me the problem is when you start symbolizing scripture when there is no need to as in making the nation of Israel the Church why not symbolize other things such as the bodily resurrection or Christ, or Satan is just a "symbol" of evil, or Adam and Eve were just "symbols" of something other than what the scriptures plainly say they were? To me the safest way to interpret scipture is to read into it the plain sense of what is being said. If God has permanently set aside Israel then why can't he do the same for Christians? The nation of Israel is a great example of the love of God and his faithfulness to an unfaithful people. I respect your view but simply disagree.
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John MacArthur says this about 1 Kings 4:21. The borders of the kingdoms that Solomon influenced echoed the Lord’s promise to Abram In Gen 15:18. However, Solomon’s reign was not the fulfillment of the Abrahamic Covenant for three reasons:
1) Israel still lived in the land “from Dan even to Beersheba” (1 Kings 4:25). Abraham’s descendants did not inhabit all the land promised to Abraham.
2) The non-Israelite kingdoms did not lose their identity and independence, but rather recognized Solomon’s authority and brought him tribute without surrendering title to their lands.
3) According to Num 34:6, the Mediterranean Sea is to be the western border to the Land of Promise, indicating that Tyre was to be a part of the Promised Land. However, Hiram king of Tyre was a sovereign who entered into a bilateral or parity treaty (between equals) with Solomon (1 Kings 5:1-12).
Where scripture is plain it should be followed as read. The prophecies concerning the reestablishment of the sovereign nation of Israel never to be driven out again is plain with no need to explain it away. It isn't a vital doctrine concerning salvation so it is something Christians can disagree on.
1) Israel still lived in the land “from Dan even to Beersheba” (1 Kings 4:25). Abraham’s descendants did not inhabit all the land promised to Abraham.
2) The non-Israelite kingdoms did not lose their identity and independence, but rather recognized Solomon’s authority and brought him tribute without surrendering title to their lands.
3) According to Num 34:6, the Mediterranean Sea is to be the western border to the Land of Promise, indicating that Tyre was to be a part of the Promised Land. However, Hiram king of Tyre was a sovereign who entered into a bilateral or parity treaty (between equals) with Solomon (1 Kings 5:1-12).
Where scripture is plain it should be followed as read. The prophecies concerning the reestablishment of the sovereign nation of Israel never to be driven out again is plain with no need to explain it away. It isn't a vital doctrine concerning salvation so it is something Christians can disagree on.
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Incorrect. When I say God kept all the promises he swore to Israel's forefathers, I'm saying Scripture means God kept all the promises he swore to Israel's forefathers.
You are the one claiming "all the promises" doesn't include the land promises, because if God actually did keep all the land promises, that wouldn't fit with Dispensationalist presuppositions that prophecies and promises to Israelites only find their fulfillment in the Millennium.
In actual fact, there isn't a single promise made to Abraham in Genesis that is not plainly declared in Scripture to have been kept. Not promises of blessings, not promises of heirs, not promises of descendants, not promises of territory. Not a single one.
Scripture doesn't contradict Scripture. However, it frequently contradicts Dispensationalist premises.
Okay then.
The promise to Abraham:
To your offspring I give this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the river Euphrates." (Gen. 15:18)
Joshua conquered it
Thus the Lord gave to Israel all the land that he swore to give to their fathers. And they took possession of it, and they settled there." (Josh. 21:43)
There is no more land than "all the land" for the Lord to give to Israel. God promised it, Joshua conquered it, they took possession of it, that settles it.
Some land was lost in border skirmishes during the period of the judges, but David reclaimed it:
David also defeated Hadadezer the son of Rehob, king of Zobah, as he went to restore his power at the river Euphrates." (2 Sam. 8:3)
Solomon ruled over it
Solomon ruled over all the kingdoms from the Euphrates to the land of the Philistines and to the border of Egypt.... For he had dominion over all the region west of the Euphrates from Tiphsah to Gaza, over all the kings west of the Euphrates. And he had peace on all sides around him." (1 Ki. 4:21, 24)
Nehemiah reaffirms it
You are the Lord, the God who chose Abram and brought him out of Ur of the Chaldeans and gave him the name Abraham. You found his heart faithful before you, and made with him the covenant to give to his offspring the land of the Canaanite, the Hittite, the Amorite, the Perizzite, the Jebusite, and the Girgashite. And you have kept your promise, for you are righteous." (Neh. 9:7-9)
Scripture repeatedly says God kept his promises to Abraham and gave Israel the land. That is not "spiritualizing"; that is what the text says in plain language.
Dispensationalism denies what Scripture literally says.
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Dispensationalists have to deny a lot of literal statements in the Bible, in order to maintain their system. See this comment from a discussion thread on financial problems at Baptist Bible Seminary/Clarks Summit University in Clarks Summit, Pennsylvania, from a graduate of that staunchly dispensationalist school:
"Finally, in agreement, it was the dispensational class there [at Baptist Bible Seminary] that convinced me personally that dispensationalism is a theological grid read over Scripture and that it does not, in my opinion, fit the Scriptures very well. (The less polite way of saying that is that Dr. Stallard convinced me dispensationalism is incorrect.)"
sharperiron.org
"Finally, in agreement, it was the dispensational class there [at Baptist Bible Seminary] that convinced me personally that dispensationalism is a theological grid read over Scripture and that it does not, in my opinion, fit the Scriptures very well. (The less polite way of saying that is that Dr. Stallard convinced me dispensationalism is incorrect.)"
Clarks Summit University Furloughs Employees | SHARPER IRON
sharperiron.org
So what happens to the generations of Jews that have died in their unbelief?
Have you never read, For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. - Romans 9:6-8 ?
Clearly, "All Israel" are the elect of every nation; the Church.