More SBC Mess?

[ALAYMAN]

Words mean things, and often it's the case that people talk past each other because clearly defining of terms has not been established between two communicating parties. That seems to be happening possibly a little bit here in this discussion. My bet is that nobody here is defending homosexual behavior. What is in question here is the definition(s) of attraction, desire, temptation, etc. When folks make outspoken claims that somebody is living in "open homosexuality" they provide ample room for misunderstanding. Is Merritt Jr living in an indulgent life of homosexual intercourse? Is he saying that homosexual intercourse is okay? Is he defending the lgbtq agenda in no uncertain terms? I have not found answers to these questions in the limited reading I've done in the short time frame. For those who are lurking on this forum, particularly at this discussion, here is ample good reading on this current controversy of what is often called "side b Christians", which is at the center of this debate regarding a Christian's identity as a gay person...

Celibate Gay Christians: Is That Biblical?

Read Celibate Gay Christians: Is That Biblical? by Denny Burk and more articles about Christian Life and Wiki on Christianity.com

www.christianity.com

 

[illinoisguy]

The Christianity.com article states that "The defining element of same-sex attraction is desire for a sexual relationship with someone of the same sex." If that is the definition of "attraction," then I take back my statement in post #58 that attraction is not a biblical sin. As I see it, it would be a sin for me to desire a sexual relationship with anyone of the same sex. It would also be a sin for me to desire a sexual relationship with someone of the opposite sex, unless it is understood that no sexual relationship would take place until after getting married. When I said attraction is okay, I meant it is okay to appreciate someone's beautiful appearance, not that is okay to want to have sex with them - I'm not sure what is the difference between that kind of attraction, and lust. Those who say it's okay to desire a sexual relationship with any person with whom such a relationship is forbidden (same sex or opposite sex) may need to go back and read Matthew 5:28-29, or do a word study on the Greek word epithumia which is translated "concupiscence" in Romans 7:8, Colossians 3:5, 1 Thessalonians 4:5 (and examine the context of those verses, since that Greek word is occasionally used in the New Testament to describe a strong desire that is commendable). Desire for an inappropriate sexual relationship is not as serious a sin as it is to act on such desires, but it is a sin nevertheless, just as coveting something is a sin even if I do not act on that covetousness by actually stealing something.

Yes, it is important to define our terms.

 

[ALAYMAN]

Without getting too wordy, I think the key for those who are struggling, presumably like Merritt Jr, is found in the Corinthian passage "such were some of you". Our identity in Christ means we do not revel in past associations, identities, or relationships that we know to be sinful. We are not alcoholic Christians, divorced Christians, nor thieving Christians, but merely Christians, saved and forgiven from that dead existence.

 

[illinoisguy]

Now a former co-worker with James Merritt is accusing Merritt of physically attacking him in defense of his gay son:

Former SBC President Accused of Assault, Racist Jokes, by Former Staff Member (reformationcharlotte.org)

"During an interview with Seth Dunn, former Crosspointe staff member, Scott Morgan, told the Christian Commute that nearly eight years ago, Merritt caused injury by repeatedly pounding his finger into his chest sending him to a doctor who he says verified the injury. The heated argument was over Merritt’s gay son, Jonathan, who was also on staff at the time, who Morgan says he had concerns about. According to Morgan, Jonathan had been writing articles for liberal publications and taking positions that were concerning. Morgan says he believes that his father knew Jonathan was gay, but because of nepotism, he chose not to discipline him at the time."

 

[ALAYMAN]

Now a former co-worker with James Merritt is accusing Merritt of physically attacking him in defense of his gay son:

Former SBC President Accused of Assault, Racist Jokes, by Former Staff Member (reformationcharlotte.org)

"During an interview with Seth Dunn, former Crosspointe staff member, Scott Morgan, told the Christian Commute that nearly eight years ago, Merritt caused injury by repeatedly pounding his finger into his chest sending him to a doctor who he says verified the injury. The heated argument was over Merritt’s gay son, Jonathan, who was also on staff at the time, who Morgan says he had concerns about. According to Morgan, Jonathan had been writing articles for liberal publications and taking positions that were concerning. Morgan says he believes that his father knew Jonathan was gay, but because of nepotism, he chose not to discipline him at the time."

Is this Seth Dunn somebody you follow regularly for info? I only asked because prior to you citing this link today I came across a podcast of his this weekend. It was the first time I had ever heard of or heard him. He railed against mega-church abuse and nepotism (similar to the charge against Merritt). While I agree that nepotism is indeed a problem in our churches, not just the mega-church world, he seemed to have a fairly serious agenda and bias in his style of developing arguments. Now, after your recent link, I went to the site where he apparently writes or links to much of his material, and find that he claims Merritt Sr, Ronnie Floyd, and a host of other SBC leaders aren't even saved (presumably because Dunn listened to the SBC podcast where they spoke at the recent Convention meeting) because Dunn doesn't feel any koinonia with them. Strange brew indeed. I don't entirely discount his perspective when reporting these discrepancies or wrongs (like Merritt Sr bullying staff) but Dunn's style seems to be cut from a fundy extremist cloth, which causes me to take it with a heaping helping grain of salt.

 

[illinoisguy]

I am not familiar with Seth Dunn at all, so I have not been influenced by him. I did not recognize Dunn's name or know anything about him when I posted the material from Reformation Charlotte citing him. I suppose that most of the time, when we post material on this forum, we don't know very much about all the sources of commentary and what axe they have to grind. I heard Ronnie Floyd preach in person in Springfield, Missouri in April, 2015, and I thought it was a fine sermon. I do not endorse all of Floyd's positions or teachings, but I think it is extreme and probably totally inappropriate to say that "Merritt, Sr., Ronnie Floyd, and a host of other SBC leaders aren't even saved."

Meanwhile, Merritt Sr. has resigned (or declined to accept) his SBC seminary position due to the current controversy:

Amid Gay Preaching Scandal, Former SBC President Resigns From Seminary Post (reformationcharlotte.org)

Former SBC Prez James Merritt Resigns From SEBTS +Why Danny Akin Has No Integrity - Protestia

 

[illinoisguy]

Update on David Platt:

David Platt and the Respectable Sin of Pastoral Corruption - TruthScript

The Sins that We Overlook A number of years ago, Jerry Bridges wrote a book titled Respectable Sins. In it, he explains that Christians view certain

truthscript.com

"Platt the false teacher - The evidence in this film shows that Platt wanted to turn this strongly conservative church into a progressive one through the implementation of a gospel of Social Justice. As false gospels always do, this teaching brought serious problems to the church. If anyone desires to see what Social Justice does to a church, then they need look no further than Platt’s tenure at McLean Bible Church. The congregants shared that they were being accused of being racist even though there was no evidence to suggest this was true (which is what typically those influenced by CRT do). . . .

"Not only did Platt fail to shepherd his people and push Social Justice, but the evidence shows that he deviously planned for McLean Bible to become a Southern Baptist Church even though the church’s constitution stated that it would always remain unaffiliated. It’s also clear that Platt was involved in the transfer of several million dollars between McLean and the Southern Baptist Convention. All of this happened without the congregation’s knowledge or even much of the elder board."