Leaving the IFB hurts.......

[Tarheel Baptist]

I have been exactly where you seem to be. My FIL was a fundamental, independent, KJVO, no pants on women....etc....etc...etc...etc...and even more etc. I worked for hi while finishing my degree at Liberty. We had disagreements, but he was the Pastor and I followed his lead and kept his standards. When I finished school, we moved to another state, to a more moderate IFB church....I was their Youth Pastor. My FIL was disappointed that we left, and hat were I a liberal church. It strained our relationship, but for my wife's sake I went the extra mile to get along with him.

He's in heaven now and my wife and I planted the church we're still in 31 years ago! Before he passed, my FIL preached in our church, even though we were liberal....my Mother in law has come around and now walks in pants, and loves to visit our church. I don't know you or your FIL, but as much as is within your power, be at peace with him. Don't rub it in or flaunt your differences....just go and do what you believe is Gods will for your family, but keep the relationship amiable. Belinda never wore pants in her dads presence, although our girls did...and he was fine with that for some reason.

Just be sure what you do is with the motive to honor he Lord and not to spite or hurt your FIL, or the IFB movement.

 

[LivingTemple]

Thanks again for all the good comments guys! For the record, my side of the family isn't perfectly okay with all the changes we have made either. When I said earlier that my mom had accepted/moved on about the pants issue, that is only because she hasn't seen my wife wearing them yet. Neither her, or my Grandmother, will be too happy about that when the time comes. As for the issue on Election, that hasn't been discussed as of yet. Although I do think they will be more open to the discussing of it. I think the pants issue is what will hurt them the most. In fact, I see them hitting the roof about it to be honest. Thankfully my FIL has been very gracious in that area.

 

[lnf]

LivingTemple, it saddens me that you could state that pants on women is probably the most contentious of the issues.  Yes, it saddens me, but it doesn't surprise me.  You see, my church struggles with the pants issue.  I work in the church office.  I wear pants, at least once during the weekday and quite often on Sunday mornings.  No one has ever said a word to me about it.  But others who work in the office with me have been specifically told they cannot wear pants.  Why the difference?  Well, I don't really know.  One would hope that it is an act of kindness toward me, because the temp is always glacially cold.  I have no insulation on my bones, so I shiver most days, even though I wear a heavy sweater.  But I don't really know why I am treated differently, because it has never been discussed. 

 

[jimmudcatgrant]

I hate when people that have been hurt in an IFB church badmouth all IFB's with their broadbrush and say they are some of the worst people, call them jerks, etc, etc.  There are bad people in all denominations.  But I know plenty of IFB members and preachers that are some of the best people I have ever met. 

Furthermore, I am a member of an IFB church and women wear pants, we listen to all kinds of Christian music, including CCB, and we are not kJVO.  We are preferred, but no one tells you what version to buy, and your spirituality is not questioned according to your version.

When bitterness gets a root it springs up all the time.

 

[christundivided]

I hate when people that have been hurt in an IFB church badmouth all IFB's with their broadbrush and say they are some of the worst people, call them jerks, etc, etc.  There are bad people in all denominations.  But I know plenty of IFB members and preachers that are some of the best people I have ever met. 

Furthermore, I am a member of an IFB church and women wear pants, we listen to all kinds of Christian music, including CCB, and we are not kJVO.  We are preferred, but no one tells you what version to buy, and your spirituality is not questioned according to your version.

When bitterness gets a root it springs up all the time.

I didn't call them all jerks. It is clear the ones he is dealing with are jerks. You have to admit there are plenty of jerks everywhere. This doesn't remove the fact there are plenty of jerks in IFB dum.

In my experience there is no such thing as a KJV preferred. If you prefer it.... you promote it. You reverence it more than any other. Just like any other KJVOist.

It almost sounds like you're bitter against those stand against IFB dum!

IFB dum has absolutely no value. NONE.

 

[jimmudcatgrant]

I hate when people that have been hurt in an IFB church badmouth all IFB's with their broadbrush and say they are some of the worst people, call them jerks, etc, etc.  There are bad people in all denominations.  But I know plenty of IFB members and preachers that are some of the best people I have ever met. 

Furthermore, I am a member of an IFB church and women wear pants, we listen to all kinds of Christian music, including CCB, and we are not kJVO.  We are preferred, but no one tells you what version to buy, and your spirituality is not questioned according to your version.

When bitterness gets a root it springs up all the time.

I didn't call them all jerks. It is clear the ones he is dealing with are jerks. You have to admit there are plenty of jerks everywhere. This doesn't remove the fact there are plenty of jerks in IFB dum.

In my experience there is no such thing as a KJV preferred. If you prefer it.... you promote it. You reverence it more than any other. Just like any other KJVOist.

It almost sounds like you're bitter against those stand against IFB dum!

IFB dum has absolutely no value. NONE.

And your bitter opinion has absolutely no value.  NONE

Yes, there is KJV preferred.  KJVO would not allow any other versions or would preach against them.  Just make up stuff as you go along, why don't you?

 

[christundivided]

I hate when people that have been hurt in an IFB church badmouth all IFB's with their broadbrush and say they are some of the worst people, call them jerks, etc, etc.  There are bad people in all denominations.  But I know plenty of IFB members and preachers that are some of the best people I have ever met. 

Furthermore, I am a member of an IFB church and women wear pants, we listen to all kinds of Christian music, including CCB, and we are not kJVO.  We are preferred, but no one tells you what version to buy, and your spirituality is not questioned according to your version.

When bitterness gets a root it springs up all the time.

I didn't call them all jerks. It is clear the ones he is dealing with are jerks. You have to admit there are plenty of jerks everywhere. This doesn't remove the fact there are plenty of jerks in IFB dum.

In my experience there is no such thing as a KJV preferred. If you prefer it.... you promote it. You reverence it more than any other. Just like any other KJVOist.

It almost sounds like you're bitter against those stand against IFB dum!

IFB dum has absolutely no value. NONE.

And your bitter opinion has absolutely no value.  NONE

Yes, there is KJV preferred.  KJVO would not allow any other versions or would preach against them.  Just make up stuff as you go along, why don't you?

List a few viable alternatives would you? Would you list any that contain translations from Alexandrian texts? Lets see how "preferred" you really are....

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

I hate when people that have been hurt in an IFB church badmouth all IFB's with their broadbrush and say they are some of the worst people, call them jerks, etc, etc.  There are bad people in all denominations.  But I know plenty of IFB members and preachers that are some of the best people I have ever met. 

Furthermore, I am a member of an IFB church and women wear pants, we listen to all kinds of Christian music, including CCB, and we are not kJVO.  We are preferred, but no one tells you what version to buy, and your spirituality is not questioned according to your version.

When bitterness gets a root it springs up all the time.

I didn't call them all jerks. It is clear the ones he is dealing with are jerks. You have to admit there are plenty of jerks everywhere. This doesn't remove the fact there are plenty of jerks in IFB dum.

In my experience there is no such thing as a KJV preferred. If you prefer it.... you promote it. You reverence it more than any other. Just like any other KJVOist.

It almost sounds like you're bitter against those stand against IFB dum!

IFB dum has absolutely no value. NONE.

And your bitter opinion has absolutely no value.  NONE

Yes, there is KJV preferred.  KJVO would not allow any other versions or would preach against them.  Just make up stuff as you go along, why don't you?

You know he is so irrational, hypocritical and dumb....I'm thinking he could be a troll...or really clueless....both, maybe?

 

[LivingTemple]

You can't lump all IFB together. My home church has grown in grace and out of legalism concerning many of the issues Hyles-Anderson stands for. From my experience it seems to be more regional as to what kind of IFB churches you run into. I'm KJV preferred, but use the ESV a awful lot too. The reason it is "preferred" for me is because it is the version I preach and teach from. It's also the most common version used and quoted among Baptist. I don't discourage people from using other versions.

 

[Binaca Chugger]

My heart breaks for you.  I understand the hurt from many different levels.  Many have gone through the same things you describe.

I know the flaws of what the IFB Not-A-Denomination Denomination has become.  I have left a position in a larger IFB church because of those issues.  I have left a position in a small IFB church because of those issues.  I have had to do a lot of examination of the movement and what I believe.  I have spoken to many who have seen the flaws and abandoned the IFB principles along with the NADD.  I have had long discussions with non-understanding family who have questioned my decisions, which have led to bruised (not broken) relationships.

One pastor, who was trained at Temple during the Roberson era and later joined the GARB, was honest enough to warn me.  "If you leave your group, you will be written off by most of your friends, trainers and those you respected.  You will lose their respect and most of their friendships.  You will not be respected by the new group either.  They will look at you with a wary eye, wondering why you would abandon the principles of your ordination."  You should expect this response.  You may pontificate upon why it should not be thus, but it will.

Personally, I have chosen to remain an Independent Fundamental Baptist, though not a member of the NADD.  What an awakening when I realized my purpose in life is to honor God, not the pastor (Seems elementary, doesn't it?  Yet knowing no other for so long.....)!  I am IFB because of what those words mean, not because of a loyalty to a church or man.  I believe in God's Sovereignty AND my responsibility to go soul winning.  I do not listen to CCM because of God's response to it in Ex 32.  Standards are a personal decision of how I choose to live my life with purpose to honor God.  Whether my wife wears pants or not is her personal decision of commitment to God and is therefore none of my (or anybody else's) business.  Each of us has a relationship with God first and each other second - so this is between her and God - submission to husband comes after her relationship with God.  I use the KJV simply because I believe it to be an accurate translation.

It seems to me that the IFB NADD has become corrupt.  Pride and empire building has consumed most of that movement.  There is an over-emphasis on the outward expression of faith and a de-emphasis on the inner devotion to God.  This is the same problem that resulted in baptismal regeneration centuries ago and is resulting in a very shallow, Pharisaical, action driven, look at me Christianity today.  If you are familiar with Baptist History, this should not shock you.  Satan has long been attacking the church.  Good movements go bad and there must be a drawing away from the error or a change to affect the error.  This has  even been a common trend since the IFB was titled in the early 1900's.  Get a copy of "A History of Fundamentalism" by George Dollar, a BJU professor writing in the 70's. 

I believe the principles of Independent Fundamental Baptist are alive and well, but they are found in churches that are not nationally known.  Who knows, maybe the recent events will be enough to cause the NADD to dissipate and the churches return to former principles.

In short - I hurt for you.  Your personal life is being torn apart because you re-examined your doctrine.  I would encourage you to not abandon good doctrine because of the errors of some.

 

[graceandtruth]

I do not listen to CCM because of God's response to it in Ex 32. 

Crazy off topic but so that I do not hijack the thread I will read your response but not give any additional comments or you can pm me.

I just read Ex 32 again and I don't understand your statement.  Verse 35 seems to give the reason for how God responded and the only musical reference is verse 18 when Joshua confused the shouts of their singing with the shouts of war.  How did you get CCM out of this.

I am always interested in how people arrive at their views on music genres based on Scripture.  Thanks for your time.

 

[Binaca Chugger]

Yeah - Not to many have heard this argument.  I looked long and hard to find what the Bible qualifies as wrong music but found no real definition.  Then I came across this some years ago and settled the issue for me.

vs 5 - the feast is honoring the LORD.  This is a key point.  I grew up hearing the story and assumed that they had given up on the LORD and returned to the Egyptian religion.  However, they clearly intended to worship the LORD.

To honor the LORD, they make a golden calf (Egyptian religion teaches the bull is the god of power, hence they are making a representative of the Son of the God of power, get it?).

They worship in the manner of Egypt, dress in the manner of Egypt and sing in the manner of Egypt.  God, who demands that His people worship Him in the beauty of holiness, refuses this manner of worship.  Egypt, of course, represents the world and sin.  Consider Cain also.  Cain wanted to worship God, but in his own manner.  Yet, Cain's worship of God was rejected.

I conclude that honest attempts to worship a holy God in the manner of the world or through my own self expression is not met with great acceptance by God.  Bon Jovi was wrong - you can't just "Bang a Drum."

From an outsider's viewpoint, CCM and much of the emerging church seems to be mainly honest people attempting to worship a holy God through their own manners or even the manner of Egypt.  Hence, I avoid CCM.

 

[prophet]

Yeah - Not to many have heard this argument.  I looked long and hard to find what the Bible qualifies as wrong music but found no real definition.  Then I came across this some years ago and settled the issue for me.

vs 5 - the feast is honoring the LORD.  This is a key point.  I grew up hearing the story and assumed that they had given up on the LORD and returned to the Egyptian religion.  However, they clearly intended to worship the LORD.

To honor the LORD, they make a golden calf (Egyptian religion teaches the bull is the god of power, hence they are making a representative of the Son of the God of power, get it?).

They worship in the manner of Egypt, dress in the manner of Egypt and sing in the manner of Egypt.  God, who demands that His people worship Him in the beauty of holiness, refuses this manner of worship.  Egypt, of course, represents the world and sin.  Consider Cain also.  Cain wanted to worship God, but in his own manner.  Yet, Cain's worship of God was rejected.

I conclude that honest attempts to worship a holy God in the manner of the world or through my own self expression is not met with great acceptance by God.  Bon Jovi was wrong - you can't just "Bang a Drum."

From an outsider's viewpoint, CCM and much of the emerging church seems to be mainly honest people attempting to worship a holy God through their own manners or even the manner of Egypt.  Hence, I avoid CCM.

I whole-heartedly concur with your previous post, and this expansion.

Sent from my N860 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Izdaari]

Welcome, LT! 

My sympathies for the problems you're dealing with in leaving IFB.

I was never IFB myself except in Sunday School at age 12. They only taught me the basics of Christianity, nothing specifically IFB, and then my family moved away. I might've been ok with staying for a while; it was moderate as IFB goes, and spiritually alive, so it seemed like a pretty good church.

Of course, your FIL would have nothing to do with me. I'm former Pentecostal, Episcopalian now, and I read the KJV only when I'm feeling especially literary.

I'll skip voting in the poll, since it seems to be wanting only KJVP's to answer, which I'm not. My normal preference is any of the RSV family -- RSV, NRSV, ESV are all good.

 

[DawnOfThe Morning]

It seems to me that the IFB NADD has become corrupt.  Pride and empire building has consumed most of that movement.  There is an over-emphasis on the outward expression of faith and a de-emphasis on the inner devotion to God.  This is the same problem that resulted in baptismal regeneration centuries ago and is resulting in a very shallow, Pharisaical, action driven, look at me Christianity today.

I agree with this! Sadly, our former IFB church, and many IFB churches in this area fit the description. We do currently attend an IFB church; but when we came here it was a re-learning experience. The focal point is our inner walk with God, not the outward appearance of religiousness. I cannot tell you how much I love where I am now, and what a freedom I have in my walk with God. It's almost as if we were released from bondage...