Jonah and the salvation of the heathen.

ALAYMAN

ALAYMAN

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Jonah 1:14 Wherefore they cried unto the Lord, and said, We beseech thee, O Lord, we beseech thee, let us not perish for this man's life, and lay not upon us innocent blood: for thou, O Lord, hast done as it pleased thee. 15 So they took up Jonah, and cast him forth into the sea: and the sea ceased from her raging. 16 Then the men feared the Lord exceedingly, and offered a sacrifice unto the Lord, and made vows.


Were these men legitimately converted? Or was this just another addition to their pantheon of gods?
 
ALAYMAN said:
Were these men legitimately converted? Or was this just another addition to their pantheon of gods?
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Probably the latter. They were appealing to their own gods (v. 5) and wanted Jonah to do the same (6). As it happened that Jonah's god did the rescuing, they did obeisance to him (16). I don't see anything suggesting they were converted, but when you already worship several gods, what's one more?
 
ALAYMAN said:
Jonah 1:14 Wherefore they cried unto the Lord, and said, We beseech thee, O Lord, we beseech thee, let us not perish for this man's life, and lay not upon us innocent blood: for thou, O Lord, hast done as it pleased thee. 15 So they took up Jonah, and cast him forth into the sea: and the sea ceased from her raging. 16 Then the men feared the Lord exceedingly, and offered a sacrifice unto the Lord, and made vows.


Were these men legitimately converted? Or was this just another addition to their pantheon of gods?
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My big theological answer is, "I don't know."

We can speculate as Ransom did. Ransome's answer probably isn't too far from accurate but only eternity will tell us for sure.

Myself, I try not to spend a lot of time on stuff like this; if the Holy Spirit felt we needed to know, He would have revealed it in the scriptures. One thing is sure: those sailors ended up being more accountable to God.
 
Ransom said:
Probably the latter. They were appealing to their own gods (v. 5) and wanted Jonah to do the same (6). As it happened that Jonah's god did the rescuing, they did obeisance to him (16). I don't see anything suggesting they were converted, but when you already worship several gods, what's one more?
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Ironically, every single commentary that I looked at said just the opposite, claiming their exclamation of “Lord we beseech thee” as definitive proof.
 
abcaines said:
My big theological answer is, "I don't know."

We can speculate as Ransom did. Ransome's answer probably isn't too far from accurate but only eternity will tell us for sure.

Myself, I try not to spend a lot of time on stuff like this; if the Holy Spirit felt we needed to know, He would have revealed it in the scriptures. One thing is sure: those sailors ended up being more accountable to God.
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Yeah, I totally get the worthlessness of speculating over the eternal state of questionable and obscure Biblical characters. My question, at its core, has more to do with the why and how people arrive at the exegetical and hermeneutical conclusions. Before looking at any commentaries I came to essentially the same conclusion as Ransom, but was a little surprised to see the near unanimity of commentators (most of which gave no rationale for their conclusion).
 
ALAYMAN said:
Ironically, every single commentary that I looked at said just the opposite, claiming their exclamation of “Lord we beseech thee” as definitive proof.
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I don't find that persuasive. Jonah told them his god's proper name and that he had power over the sea. So of course they were going to beseech him. Nothing in the text said he taught them monotheism as well. That may be implied by his description of Yahweh as the "God of heaven" who made the land and sea.
 
Ransom said:
I don't find that persuasive. Jonah told them his god's proper name and that he had power over the sea. So of course they were going to beseech him. Nothing in the text said he taught them monotheism as well. That may be implied by his description of Yahweh as the "God of heaven" who made the land and sea.
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According to "Got Questions," Jonah's prophecy was 760 BC and Nineveh was destroyed by the Medes in 612 BC. This gives a 148 year window between when God's hand was stayed due to their repentance and their ultimate destruction. There is no telling how long such "Repentance" lasted and when they fell back into the same "pattern of wickedness" that brought about Jonah's declaration of judgment. Jonah did not speak of the sin by which judgment was pronounced upon Nineveh. All he stated was "Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown."

Their repentance was sufficient for God to postpone his judgment thereby granting them his common grace at the very least. And what brought about their repentance in the first place? Can we compare the Ninevites reaction with that of the Philistines who had captured the Ark of the Covenant? There was certainly no repentance with the Philistines: they only wanted the Ark gone and for Israel's God to stop plaguing their "god."

There may have been a few who actually came to "Saving Faith" in Jehovah but such is recorded nowhere and is speculative at best. What we do know is that this "Revival" (or whatever you would call it) was short-lived.
 
ALAYMAN said:
Ironically, every single commentary that I looked at said just the opposite, claiming their exclamation of “Lord we beseech thee” as definitive proof.
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Sounds like you're reading a bunch of free-willies. 1-2-3 pray after me, say the prayer and get saved.
 
Ransom said:
I don't find that persuasive. Jonah told them his god's proper name and that he had power over the sea. So of course they were going to beseech him. Nothing in the text said he taught them monotheism as well. That may be implied by his description of Yahweh as the "God of heaven" who made the land and sea.
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That was my basic rationale as well. At that moment they were desperate to not die, and would call out to any god for temporary salvation of their physical lives. The general argument made by commentators seized up on the usage of the word feared, declaring it was used in the reverential/filial sense rather than that of a servile fear.
 
abcaines said:
Sounds like you're reading a bunch of free-willies. 1-2-3 pray after me, say the prayer and get saved.
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I assume you’re being facetious, but if not, I am referring to standard commentaries from the likes of Gill, Coffman, Barnes, etc
 
Your assumption is correct. If I'm referring to anything along the Cal/Arm spectrum, chances are I'm being facetious or sarcastic.
 
ALAYMAN said:
Jonah 1:14 Wherefore they cried unto the Lord, and said, We beseech thee, O Lord, we beseech thee, let us not perish for this man's life, and lay not upon us innocent blood: for thou, O Lord, hast done as it pleased thee. 15 So they took up Jonah, and cast him forth into the sea: and the sea ceased from her raging. 16 Then the men feared the Lord exceedingly, and offered a sacrifice unto the Lord, and made vows.


Were these men legitimately converted? Or was this just another addition to their pantheon of gods?
Click to expand...
How could they have been "converted"? There was no Christianity to convert to.

Besides, Jonah claimed to be Hebrew and that would have been a redundancy if they all worshiped the same deity.
 
abcaines said:
Would you care to list the differences?
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For answers, study Judaism or Islam.

For three different religions to be associated as having started with the same man convolutes the premise one of those faiths dominated another.
 
Smellin Coffee said:
How could they have been "converted"? There was no Christianity to convert to.
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Who said they would be converted to Christianity? We could start with monotheism, as Abraham was undoubtedly converted, for instance.
Smellin Coffee said:
Besides, Jonah claimed to be Hebrew and that would have been a redundancy if they all worshiped the same deity.
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What?
 
ALAYMAN said:
Who said they would be converted to Christianity? We could start with monotheism, as Abraham was undoubtedly converted, for instance.

What?
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Which Abrahamic religion? Islam? Judaism? Christianity? Or is monotheism the same thing as Christianity?

Jonah answered, “I am a Hebrew, and I worship the LORD, the God of heaven, who made the sea and the land.”
 
Smellin Coffee said:
Which Abrahamic religion? Islam? Judaism? Christianity? Or is monotheism the same thing as Christianity?

Jonah answered, “I am a Hebrew, and I worship the LORD, the God of heaven, who made the sea and the land.”
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You asked how they could have been converted. Since they were polytheistic it would rightfully be described as “conversion” to concede that they acted upon the knowledge available to them that Yahweh was responsible for their salvation (temporal or eternal).
 
ALAYMAN said:
You asked how they could have been converted. Since they were polytheistic it would rightfully be described as “conversion” to concede that they acted upon the knowledge available to them that Yahweh was responsible for their salvation (temporal or eternal).
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Fair enough, but how do you know it wasn't Allah?

I guess if it were, it would still be conversion.
 
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