Jack Schaap out of prison

AverageJoe said:
Your past experiences have tainted your view of people. You seem to lack any grace towards people and HAC/FBCH in particular. Yes, they were run by several "Jim Jones" type personalities, and some are probably still there. But, with the advent of a new pastor, it's VERY POSSIBLE that much has changed. Bitterness won't help you. I know. I've been there and experienced much of what people at HAC/FBCH experienced, though I was in other IFB churches. If you don't let go of the bitterness and anger and learn to forgive, then Christ isn't going to find it easy to forgive you. It took a LONG time for me to learn to forgive, but, I have. Does this mean I'm going to run back to the IFB churches and legalism? NO WAY! The Christian life is to be a "more abundant life" in Christ...if you can't forgive (doesn't mean forget), then I don't find Christ in you.
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Hello,
You are a man. John Wilkerson may be a different man, but he observes the same practices of his predecessors. YES! I am bitter against a place and a group of folks who delve in sin and then invoke God’s word, twist it and say they won’t gossip and they do it anyway. Wilkerson has never rebuked the sin and false teachings and will not change staff members. I have every reason, of which you know none, to be bitter and I believe God’s teachings about rebuking sin. That is what I am doing. I am an assault victim of FBCH and they covered it up as much as they could. People in my family forced their hand on some points. You are a case of not knowing whereof you speak. I am the one rebuking the sin. You just think I am bitter and unforgiving. That is the way you were taught. What you were taught is wrong in the eyes of God, not matter what FBCH/HAC/HBHS, etc. think. I have an abundant life in Christ and I have Old Testament righteous indignation and hatred for such sin! You do not know me. You have not lived my experience. You are a lamb who has been expertly slain and you don’t even know you are bleeding out. I hope you awaken to what is right. May God have mercy on your soul.
 
sawthruglassclearly said:
Hello,
You are a man. John Wilkerson may be a different man, but he observes the same practices of his predecessors. YES! I am bitter against a place and a group of folks who delve in sin and then invoke God’s word, twist it and say they won’t gossip and they do it anyway. Wilkerson has never rebuked the sin and false teachings and will not change staff members. I have every reason, of which you know none, to be bitter and I believe God’s teachings about rebuking sin. That is what I am doing. I am an assault victim of FBCH and they covered it up as much as they could. People in my family forced their hand on some points. You are a case of not knowing whereof you speak. I am the one rebuking the sin. You just think I am bitter and unforgiving. That is the way you were taught. What you were taught is wrong in the eyes of God, not matter what FBCH/HAC/HBHS, etc. think. I have an abundant life in Christ and I have Old Testament righteous indignation and hatred for such sin! You do not know me. You have not lived my experience. You are a lamb who has been expertly slain and you don’t even know you are bleeding out. I hope you awaken to what is right. May God have mercy on your soul.
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Yes, I AM a man. I don't deny that. Should I? Does this mean I don't know what you're speaking of....Don't think so. Females aren't the only ones who suffer sexual assault. As far as me "not knowing whereof I speak," you have no idea what I know and what I don't...what I've experienced and what I haven't....where I've been and where I haven't...and what I've done in response to these things. For many years, like you seem to be, I was angry, bitter, divisive, and unforgiving. You don't show the signs of "rebuking" anything, but rather, are seemingly throwing a bitter tirade against what has happened to you. It's up to you how you respond. I learned that the longer I was bitter, angry, and unforgiving,, I was hurting myself, not the perpetrator. Some people never are able to come to grips with what has happened. I'm sorry if you're one of these. There are better ways to "warn people" about the church and it's actions, and it's lack of repentence. Maybe you should try them.
 
AverageJoe said:
Yes, I AM a man. I don't deny that. Should I? Does this mean I don't know what you're speaking of....Don't think so. Females aren't the only ones who suffer sexual assault. As far as me "not knowing whereof I speak," you have no idea what I know and what I don't...what I've experienced and what I haven't....where I've been and where I haven't...and what I've done in response to these things. For many years, like you seem to be, I was angry, bitter, divisive, and unforgiving. You don't show the signs of "rebuking" anything, but rather, are seemingly throwing a bitter tirade against what has happened to you. It's up to you how you respond. I learned that the longer I was bitter, angry, and unforgiving,, I was hurting myself, not the perpetrator. Some people never are able to come to grips with what has happened. I'm sorry if you're one of these. There are better ways to "warn people" about the church and it's actions, and it's lack of repentence. Maybe you should try them.
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Far Below Average Joe,
You are grasping to hold onto your beliefs by your fingernails. I am not going to waste any more of my time trying to explain anything to you. It is beyond too late for you. You go your way and I will go mine. You’re entitled to your opinion, blah, blah, blah. I won’t respond further. You’re not just fundamental, you are fundamentally hopeless. Just like that lamb!
 
sawthruglassclearly said:
Far Below Average Joe,
You are grasping to hold onto your beliefs by your fingernails. I am not going to waste any more of my time trying to explain anything to you. It is beyond too late for you. You go your way and I will go mine. You’re entitled to your opinion, blah, blah, blah. I won’t respond further. You’re not just fundamental, you are fundamentally hopeless. Just like that lamb!
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I don't think you "saw thru glass clearly" as in your name...you have no sight at all in the Christian world. You've proven it by your comments. I left the fundamental circles years ago because of the two extremes...YOUR kind of extreme, the unforgiving, hateful spirit, and the one that is the abuser. The only "Lamb" I follow is the Lamb of God. Carry on, Ms. Bitter.
 
sawthruglassclearly said:
Hello,
You are a man. John Wilkerson may be a different man, but he observes the same practices of his predecessors. YES! I am bitter against a place and a group of folks who delve in sin and then invoke God’s word, twist it and say they won’t gossip and they do it anyway. Wilkerson has never rebuked the sin and false teachings and will not change staff members. I have every reason, of which you know none, to be bitter and I believe God’s teachings about rebuking sin. That is what I am doing. I am an assault victim of FBCH and they covered it up as much as they could. People in my family forced their hand on some points. You are a case of not knowing whereof you speak. I am the one rebuking the sin. You just think I am bitter and unforgiving. That is the way you were taught. What you were taught is wrong in the eyes of God, not matter what FBCH/HAC/HBHS, etc. think. I have an abundant life in Christ and I have Old Testament righteous indignation and hatred for such sin! You do not know me. You have not lived my experience. You are a lamb who has been expertly slain and you don’t even know you are bleeding out. I hope you awaken to what is right. May God have mercy on your soul.
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So with all due respect if you are rebuking sin in the Old Testament kind of way and all, Who sinned against you? What did they do specifically (without being crass or prurient)? I mean as I read through the Old Testament I see no backing away or hiding identities of the sinful as they were called out. There were no vague reference to the sin or the perpetrators. It was pretty much laid out in black in white. No pulled punches.
 
TidesofTruth said:
So with all due respect if you are rebuking sin in the Old Testament kind of way and all, Who sinned against you? What did they do specifically (without being crass or prurient)? I mean as I read through the Old Testament I see no backing away or hiding identities of the sinful as they were called out. There were no vague reference to the sin or the perpetrators. It was pretty much laid out in black in white. No pulled punches.
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excuse me.... but in defense of sawthruglassclearly.... and with all due respect to you - and average joe... ..... i was encouraged on the old fff many years ago to spell out what had been done to me as a child... to be more specific about what it was that left me missing some internal parts... unable to even carry on the kind of relationship with men, all fundamentalist men inisted christian women should prepare themselves for... .... much less have children... and with a mental illness that should make people not want me to try to raise children anyway........ they said they wanted specifics as if they just couldn;t understand what kind of abuse could not be completely recovered from..... and refused to take my word for it... ... .so i wrote about it..... .. .. and within minutes of my posting people on the old fff recoiled in horror and disgust.. ..told me to never tell them anything like that again.... .. the forum deleted many of my posts.... and some members demanded the webmaster ban me.....

and then a few others on the fff started using what they had learned against me...... calling me damaged goods and used garbage... .. even saying i should be locked up in an institution somewhere and not allowed out in public due to the problems i have....... there are people on this forum now who rmember that... and some who defended me..... i would not be here on this fff otherwise.....

you don;t know what it is you are asking for....... like others on another fff before this one, you only think you want to know these things...... ....like i told someone here not long ago who asked me to post my testimony.... ..... people only think they want to hear our stories..until they hear our stories..... . and then they never want to hear from us again....... ...before you ask someone to swing away and pull no punches.... be certain you can take the punch.... ...very few are able to... ...
 
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aleshanee said:
excuse me.... but in defense of sawthruglassclearly.... and with all due respect to you... ..... i was encouraged on the old fff many years ago to spell out what had been done to me as a child... to be more specific about what it was that left me missing some internal parts... unable to even carry on the kind of relationship with men, all fundamentalist men inisted christian women should prepare themselves for... .... much less have children... and with a mental illness that should make people not want me to try to raise children anyway........ they said they wanted specifics as if they just couldn;t understand what kind of abuse could not be completely recovered from..... and refused to take my word for it... ... .so i wrote about it..... .. .. and within minutes of my posting people on the old fff recoiled in horror and disgust.. ..told me to never tell them anything like that again.... .. the forum deleted many of my posts.... and some members demanded the webmaster ban me.....

and then a few others on the fff started using what they had learned against me...... calling me damaged goods and used garbage... .. even saying i should be locked up in an institution somewhere and not allowed out in public due to the problems i have....... there are people on this forum now who rmember that... and some who defended me..... i would not be back here otherwise.....

you don;t know what it is you are asking for....... like others on another fff before this one, you only think you want to know these things...... ....like i told someone here not long ago who asked me to post my testimony.... ..... people only think they want to hear our stories..until they hear our stories..... . and then they never want to hear from us again....... ...before you ask someone to swing away and pull no punches.... be certain you can take the punch.... ...very few are able to... ...
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I don't recall ANY of your postings being deleted on the old FFF (are you talking about Don's version of it, or a newer owner's version?) Don didn't usually make a habit of deleting anything. I know, because I posted some lulus. I'm not saying it didn't happen, but just that I don't recall it. I never divulged all that happened to me because I didn't feel it was anyone else's business but mine, the perpetrators, and God almighty's.
As far as the "mental condition" you speak of, that's something you had nothing to do with. It's a part of your makeup, and anyone who tried to diss you because of it should be ashamed of themselves. It doesn't make ANYONE damaged goods. But, you're correct that many want to know the details, but they can't handle it once they do and do anything and everything to try and distance themselves from what they've heard and what they know. It's shameful on their part!
 
AverageJoe said:
I don't recall ANY of your postings being deleted on the old FFF (are you talking about Don's version of it, or a newer owner's version?) Don didn't usually make a habit of deleting anything. I know, because I posted some lulus. I'm not saying it didn't happen, but just that I don't recall it. I never divulged all that happened to me because I didn't feel it was anyone else's business but mine, the perpetrators, and God almighty's.
As far as the "mental condition" you speak of, that's something you had nothing to do with. It's a part of your makeup, and anyone who tried to diss you because of it should be ashamed of themselves. It doesn't make ANYONE damaged goods. But, you're correct that many want to know the details, but they can't handle it once they do and do anything and everything to try and distance themselves from what they've heard and what they know. It's shameful on their part!
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thank you for your kind words regarding the schizophrenia.... .... i only spoke about the things i said here in defense of sawthruglassclearly... ...and unlike sawthruglassclearly.. what happened to me was not in any way connected to a church or fundamentalism... ... in fact it was through the bus ministry of a baptist church that i was saved when all of that was still going on.... and what happened in the past on older forums to me won;t happen again... ..i know better now than to try and answer questions... and whether or not they accept what testimony i do give... or whether they reject it..does not bother me anymore...... ..what happen when i was a child destroyed any chance i would ever have for normal life.... but the fmaily that took me in helped me..by the grace of God ..though love.. and thousands of hours of therapy... to build a new one..... a lot of that was still in progress when i first joined the fff almost 20 years ago....... .. but it;s much closer to being as completed as it can be now.. ... i;m not the same as i was.... ..in some ways i am.... but not all...i;m a lot stronger than i was... ......... .. ..... and yet i was fortunate.... . not all who are abused as children or teenagers ever get to be.... ....

it;s not likely now that anyone is going walk out of my childhood past to remind me of things that happened back then in a way that causes me additional pain or torment...... but not all who have been abused in those ways are so fortunate there either....... .something like a perpetrator being released from prison.. especially one you might be familiar with.... is enough all by itself to stir up the past and dig up the dead memories where we left them buried..... ...but when it;s a perpetrator being released that some people in a church or associates.. (fellow forum members)... still look up to and it;s all they can seem to talk about...... those memories can be like reopening the old wounds and pouring acid into them...... .... and then when people begin to chide us..or ridicule us... for what they misinterpret as a lack of compassion..... ...mistake a wound continuing to bleed as a some kind of rebellion against God on our part..... or misinterpet bitter tears as a refusal to forgive .... then it becomes a pain that cannot be described..... anger is often the result of repressed grief... being silenced by the scorn of others.....and those tears held back to avoid that turns to acid....

the churches who harbored and foisted perpetrators on the innocent among them... .owe those survivors of abuse quite a lot.... in fact... i would say they owe them more than they can ever repay or make amends for...... .. but they can still move in that direction.... and they can begin by hearing what those survivors have to say....
 
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aleshanee said:
excuse me.... but in defense of sawthruglassclearly.... and with all due respect to you... ..... i was encouraged on the old fff many years ago to spell out what had been done to me as a child... to be more specific about what it was that left me missing some internal parts... unable to even carry on the kind of relationship with men, all fundamentalist men inisted christian women should prepare themselves for... .... much less have children... and with a mental illness that should make people not want me to try to raise children anyway........ they said they wanted specifics as if they just couldn;t understand what kind of abuse could not be completely recovered from..... and refused to take my word for it... ... .so i wrote about it..... .. .. and within minutes of my posting people on the old fff recoiled in horror and disgust.. ..told me to never tell them anything like that again.... .. the forum deleted many of my posts.... and some members demanded the webmaster ban me.....

and then a few others on the fff started using what they had learned against me...... calling me damaged goods and used garbage... .. even saying i should be locked up in an institution somewhere and not allowed out in public due to the problems i have....... there are people on this forum now who rmember that... and some who defended me..... i would not be here on this fff otherwise.....

you don;t know what it is you are asking for....... like others on another fff before this one, you only think you want to know these things...... ....like i told someone here not long ago who asked me to post my testimony.... ..... people only think they want to hear our stories..until they hear our stories..... . and then they never want to hear from us again....... ...before you ask someone to swing away and pull no punches.... be certain you can take the punch.... ...very few are able to... ...
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What she said! That is my exact feeling and experience! Thank you for putting it so well and so true!I am so sorry for you and I EMPATHIZE!
 
AverageJoe said:
I don't recall ANY of your postings being deleted on the old FFF (are you talking about Don's version of it, or a newer owner's version?) Don didn't usually make a habit of deleting anything. I know, because I posted some lulus. I'm not saying it didn't happen, but just that I don't recall it. I never divulged all that happened to me because I didn't feel it was anyone else's business but mine, the perpetrators, and God almighty's.
As far as the "mental condition" you speak of, that's something you had nothing to do with. It's a part of your makeup, and anyone who tried to diss you because of it should be ashamed of themselves. It doesn't make ANYONE damaged goods. But, you're correct that many want to know the details, but they can't handle it once they do and do anything and everything to try and distance themselves from what they've heard and what they know. It's shameful on their part!
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addendum to previous post...
sorry... i should have clarified.... only a few disappeared or were deleted / edited by admin or a moderator.. .... i deleted most of the other posts myself either by request of admin and other forum members... or simply due to rethinking what i had just written when i saw the reactions people had to it..... either way nothing people would consider too graphic or TMI was left behind... unless we all missed something.... ...as far as the schizophrenia goes... i still and probably always will have problems with it.... that issue got argued right here several years ago by a certain itinerated preacher who claimed schizophrenia was either a simple behaviorial issue... (sin).... or demon possession... .. or a combination of both..... .he said there was no "empirical evidence" that schizophrenia could be medical..or caused by faulty brain development related to childhood abuse.... .... i reminded him people once thought seizures were caused by demons too.... ......he was definitely of a previous centuries mentality that has thankfully changed in much of fundamentalism... as well as other churches who once held those old opinions.... . the invention of the MRI with it;s ability to show damaged areas of the brain related to the symptoms of schizophrenia helped enormously....
 
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TidesofTruth said:
"What did they do specifically (without being crass or prurient)?"
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I guess no one reads anymore and just emotionally react. I don't know how I could have been more clear. I give up.

And BTW I do understand those things. My wife was horribly abused as a child with unspeakable abuse, things you only would imagine in a horror movie and yes, as a couple we had to learn about how she could be healed and all the things in intimacy that goes along with that. I was not asking for that level of detail and I think I communicated such. And I have lived with the punches in the gut since I was 17 and my then fiancé tell me her story. 41 years ago now, happily married and raised children in the fear and admonition of the Lord pure to the marriage altar. But I don't think there is a punch in this arena I haven't taken.
And yes I do get angry when abuses like what one "victim" described as grooming because she did not appreciate the way her foster dad woke her up in the morning equivocated with what aleshanee describe and my wife's abuse. It makes me FURIOUS.
 
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Bob Jones V said:
I remember it all. You are the little Hawaiian (I think??) girl ( I remember the one time you posted a pic and people bashed you for how you were dressed). You had a sister too, right? I remember reading all of your stories and how it broke my heart that you had to go through all of that. It broke my heart because I went through something similar. Not nearly as long or as bad as what you did, but similar. I know the pain, the distress, the mental anguish, the nightmares. For years and years I had nightmares. After I was saved, I had recurring desires to murder the person who did what they did to me, and many times I felt that I could not be truly a Christian. I spent years in counseling after I finally revealed this, and worked through it. When this forum basically was taken over by BOTs and we all went to a similar one, you appeared again, fearless against the rude, crude, heartless people who attacked and maligned you. My hear goes out to the 17 year old girl who was abused by Jack Schaap. It will take her years and years to heal, if she ever does. And she will have scars so deep that she will never get over them. I was asked to tell my story, and refused. I only ever tell people the basic basics, nothing more. No one needs to hear my story. The right people have already heard it.
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You could not be more right!
 
Bob Jones V said:
I remember it all. You are the little Hawaiian (I think??) girl ( I remember the one time you posted a pic and people bashed you for how you were dressed). You had a sister too, right? I remember reading all of your stories and how it broke my heart that you had to go through all of that. It broke my heart because I went through something similar. Not nearly as long or as bad as what you did, but similar. I know the pain, the distress, the mental anguish, the nightmares. For years and years I had nightmares. After I was saved, I had recurring desires to murder the person who did what they did to me, and many times I felt that I could not be truly a Christian. I spent years in counseling after I finally revealed this, and worked through it. When this forum basically was taken over by BOTs and we all went to a similar one, you appeared again, fearless against the rude, crude, heartless people who attacked and maligned you. My hear goes out to the 17 year old girl who was abused by Jack Schaap. It will take her years and years to heal, if she ever does. And she will have scars so deep that she will never get over them. I was asked to tell my story, and refused. I only ever tell people the basic basics, nothing more. No one needs to hear my story. The right people have already heard it.
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You're right! Now I remember aleshanee! I'm sorry, but I had forgotten all about that incident! Thankfully, I wasn't one of the ones who participated in the bashing. I couldn't after what I had experienced. I truly felt for her. We had some wonderful people on the old FFF, but we also had some real goads! I empathize and sympathize with any who have experienced abuse...yes, even sawthruglassclearly...
 
TidesofTruth said:
I guess no one reads anymore and just emotionally react. I don't know how I could have been more clear. I give up.

And BTW I do understand those things. My wife was horribly abused as a child with unspeakable abuse, things you only would imagine in a horror movie and yes, as a couple we had to learn about how she could be healed and all the things in intimacy that goes along with that. I was not asking for that level of detail and I think I communicated such. And I have lived with the punches in the gut since I was 17 and my then fiancé tell me her story. 41 years ago now, happily married and raised children in the fear and admonition of the Lord pure to the marriage altar. But I don't think there is a punch in this arena I haven't taken.
And yes I do get angry when abuses like what one "victim" described as grooming because she did not appreciate the way her foster dad woke her up in the morning equivocated with what aleshanee describe and my wife's abuse. It makes me FURIOUS.
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ah.... there it is....... ... the old .."you are reacting emotionally and not really reading what i wrote".... response........ .. i was wondering how long it would take someone in the friends of jack defense camp to pull that one out.... it;s not the first time i have heard that here... and they usually think they have scored big with that little quip...... ..but then you made referrence to your request about not being crass or pruient - probably knowing all the while... (if what you said about your wife having suffered the same kind of abuse i did was true.. and if you truly understand... )... that crass and prurient is where the whole thing started... it was never anything but that.... .. and it only got worse over time.... it doesn;t matter how clear your request was - the thing you requested is not possible for those whose abuse started in early childhood... .... and i think you know that..... or at least you should... . so chalk up another one.... ..... but then you went for more with your comment about how there is not a punch in this arena you haven;t taken... ..you have heard it all and handled it all.... yeah.... i have heard that one a lot on these forums too..... . too bad we are not talking about fishing... you could tell me how a fish you caught all by yourself one day was bigger and meaner than anything i even assisted with hauling in..... ...wow... i;m impressed already....

but the person i;m truly impressed with is your wife.... and i mean that in all sincerety... i did read what you wrote.... .. all of it.... . and if it is true that she suffered the same kind of abuse i did... and she can still be married... have an intimate relationship with a husband... become pregnant and give birth to children... and raise them to be good and responsible adults... then she is made of stronger stuff physically than i ever was.... and no doubt made of stronger stuff mentally ..spiritualy... and emotionally as well..... ..... there is a reason i sometimes appear emotional in what i write... my abuse started at age 5... and my doctor says my emotional development stopped dead in it tracks right there.... normal emotional development that is.... some things regarding emotions never progressed again beyond the realm of childhood .. and in other ways i was forced to deal with the emotional world of adults long before i was ready.... ..

and then due to damage done to me through 4 years of rape and abusive activities i was not ready for, i had to have a complete hysterctomy at age 9... i also had multiple and extensive forward and retrograde fisulas that could not be repaired, so they did a complete fusion of a certain passageway unique to females in order to save 2 other vital passageways that could only be repaired if the one between them was sacrificed.... .. (sorry...i hope that;s not too confusing... i;m trying not to be crass or prurient here)..... .. ..... so not only is there no possibility of having children... there is not even a possibility of performing the thing that creates one..... .but that is probably for the best anyway.... ....due to the mental and emotional disturbances we already covered any man that approached me today with the kind of thoughts in mind their manhood gives them, would exit the encounter without his manhood intact.... ....it would be sort of a trade off though...but in the interest of not being prurient i won;t mention what he would risk walking away with.... . ..

and nobody in their right mind would expect me to raise children... or handle money situations of any kind.... i;m not even allowed to hold a drivers license....

it;s possible you are not trying come as the cretin your comments paint you as..... you may not be a cretin at all.. ...i don;t know you..... i don;t know jack schaap either..or anything about him other than what people have posted about here.... ...(plus i also saw a clip of his polished arrow sermon someone posted :rolleyes:).... i don;t know if he is repentant of his sin or ever will be.... i don;t think anybody knows that.. or why they would defend him or give him the benefit of a doubt they seem unwilling to give anyone else....... ... but i did take note you said it makes you furious when someone equivocates simply feeling uncomfortable around someone with the kind of abuse your wife and i suffered..... .. should i also be furious that you appear to have equivocated what your wife suffered with the abuse i survived as a child?.....or that you claim to fully understand such things when you have only heard about them second hand... and not experienced such things yourself?..... ..

like i said.... either she is one remarkable individual in every way imagineable..... someone of a mental - spiritual - and physical caliber none of us can match..... or else our stories and the abuses we suffered were vastly different... .. and it;s possible you might not understand as much as you think... . it;s also possible that the stories of other childhood and teenage sexual abuse survivors is vastly different from anything i or your wife experienced... or anything you heard about too..... ....... ..even though they might not sound like much to you.... there are many reasons a survivor of abuse might not want to tell you more of their story.... you are wrong to berate them like you did just because they don;t........
 
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Bob Jones V said:
I remember it all. You are the little Hawaiian (I think??) girl ( I remember the one time you posted a pic and people bashed you for how you were dressed). You had a sister too, right? I remember reading all of your stories and how it broke my heart that you had to go through all of that. It broke my heart because I went through something similar. Not nearly as long or as bad as what you did, but similar. I know the pain, the distress, the mental anguish, the nightmares. For years and years I had nightmares. After I was saved, I had recurring desires to murder the person who did what they did to me, and many times I felt that I could not be truly a Christian. I spent years in counseling after I finally revealed this, and worked through it. When this forum basically was taken over by BOTs and we all went to a similar one, you appeared again, fearless against the rude, crude, heartless people who attacked and maligned you. My hear goes out to the 17 year old girl who was abused by Jack Schaap. It will take her years and years to heal, if she ever does. And she will have scars so deep that she will never get over them. I was asked to tell my story, and refused. I only ever tell people the basic basics, nothing more. No one needs to hear my story. The right people have already heard it.
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yep... that;s me.... though not actually hawaiian.... i was with my mom in east los angeles until my natural sister brought me here to hawaii after our mother went to prison... she was over 10 years older than me... and was sent to hawaii when she was 15 to live with an uncle... but mostly to dance and make money since girls could dance in night clubs at the age of 15 in hawaii back then...

the sister that was briefly on one of the old forums with me is my adoptive sister... who i live with now... . .my adoptive dad was here on a few versions of the old forums too... ..in fact.... it was a story he wrote about the night my natural sister was murdered... and his first encounter with me... and the way i ended up moving in with him and his family ...that got me started on the one of the old forums.... i came on to fill in a few blanks about what happened and answer some questions... and ended up sticking around.....
 
aleshanee said:
ah.... there it is....... ... the old .."you are reacting emotionally and not really reading what i wrote".... response........ .. i was wondering how long it would take someone in the friends of jack defense camp to pull that one out.... it;s not the first time i have heard that here... and they usually think they have scored big with that little quip...... ..but then you made referrence to your request about not being crass or pruient - probably knowing all the while... (if what you said about your wife having suffered the same kind of abuse i did was true.. and if you truly understand... )... that crass and prurient is where the whole thing started... it was never anything but that.... .. and it only got worse over time.... it doesn;t matter how clear your request was - the thing you requested is not possible for those whose abuse started in early childhood... .... and i think you know that..... or at least you should... . so chalk up another one.... ..... but then you went for more with your comment about how there is not a punch in this arena you haven;t taken... ..you have heard it all and handled it all.... yeah.... i have heard that one a lot on these forums too..... . too bad we are not talking about fishing... you could tell me how a fish you caught all by yourself one day was bigger and meaner than anything i even assisted with hauling in..... ...wow... i;m impressed already....

but the person i;m truly impressed with is your wife.... and i mean that in all sincerety... i did read what you wrote.... .. all of it.... . and if it is true that she suffered the same kind of abuse i did... and she can still be married... have an intimate relationship with a husband... become pregnant and give birth to children... and raise them to be good and responsible adults... then she is made of stronger stuff physically than i ever was.... and no doubt made of stronger stuff mentally ..spiritualy... and emotionally as well..... ..... there is a reason i sometimes appear emotional in what i write... my abuse started at age 5... and my doctor says my emotional development stopped dead in it tracks right there.... normal emotional development that is.... some things regarding emotions never progressed again beyond the realm of childhood .. and in other ways i was forced to deal with the emotional world of adults long before i was ready.... ..

and then due to damage done to me through 4 years of rape and abusive activities i was not ready for, i had to have a complete hysterctomy at age 9... i also had multiple and extensive forward and retrograde fisulas that could not be repaired, so they did a complete fusion of a certain passageway unique to females in order to save 2 other vital passageways that could only be repaired if the one between them was sacrificed.... .. (sorry...i hope that;s not too confusing... i;m trying not to be crass or prurient here)..... .. ..... so not only is there no possibility of having children... there is not even a possibility of performing the thing that creates one..... .but that is probably for the best anyway.... ....due to the mental and emotional disturbances we already covered any man that approached me today with the kind of thoughts in mind their manhood gives them, would exit the encounter without his manhood intact.... ....it would be sort of a trade off though...but in the interest of not being prurient i won;t mention what he would risk walking away with.... . ..

and nobody in their right mind would expect me to raise children... or handle money situations of any kind.... i;m not even allowed to hold a drivers license....

it;s possible you are not trying come as the cretin your comments paint you as..... you may not be a cretin at all.. ...i don;t know you..... i don;t know jack schaap either..or anything about him other than what people have posted about here.... ...(plus i also saw a clip of his polished arrow sermon someone posted :rolleyes:).... i don;t know if he is repentant of his sin or ever will be.... i don;t think anybody knows that.. or why they would defend him or give him the benefit of a doubt they seem unwilling to give anyone else....... ... but i did take note you said it makes you furious when someone equivocates simply feeling uncomfortable around someone with the kind of abuse your wife and i suffered..... .. should i also be furious that you appear to have equivocated what your wife suffered with the abuse i survived as a child?..... like i said.... either she is one remarkable individual in every way imagineable..... someone of a mental - spiritual - and physical caliber none of us can match..... or else our stories and the abuses we suffered were vastly different...... ...and it;s possible that the stories of other childhood and teenage sexual abuse survivors is vastly different too.....even though they might not sound like much to you.... there are many reasons they might not want to tell you more of their story.... you are wrong to berate them like you did just because they don;t........
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I berated no one. I simply asked that if one is going to call it out then name the names and tell what they did. I specifically did not ask for details, nor did I want them. I want them named. and church discipline and all legal punishment to occur. And what you describe here is nearly identical to what my wife suffered except for the physical issues of anatomical internal injury. I don't wish to compare horror stories but I do want to relay to you just a bit so you understand where I am coming from. Certainly the abuses you suffered Are of the absolute worst of their kind. The wounds are forever and only God can do a restorative healing to your heart. And I never demand/ask anyone to participate in that except as the Holy Spirit impresses upon them for their own good and as part of their own healing - certainly not to let the abuser off the hook because by God's grace he killed my wife's abusers before I ever got the chance because there is no way they would continue to exist on this planet had they lived. I would have seen to it they would have been disappeared. Thankfully God took care of that. Now as to my wife's abuses, again without being crass and prurient (because I do know how that effects the abused) My wife was horribly abused and I will reveal what she wrote publicly in a Christian booklet on the matter, written to help other abused women.
My wife's father died 6 months before she was born to a household that would eventually have 8 children from 4 different fathers In a home of revolving door man after man From the time she was 5 years old she was sodomized, beaten tied to a tree to let the ants eat at her, locked in an attic, beaten with ropes, electrical cords, sticks at constantly from the age of 5-9 being sexually abused, she had hardly any food, The children were all malnourished when authorities came. Never went to school. Always on the run for rent or police or truant officers. She cried out. She told her mother over and over and over. Her mother paid her no mind. Thankfully the DCFS came and took all the children from that home and she was placed in a Children's home. It was there she was cared for by loving couples and nurtured young enough to learn how to begin to cope. I met her at 17. Now as a kid (me) entering into this relationship never having suffered sexual abuse, ignorant about life and my own family falling apart, my true desire was to get out on my own and take care of her. We were completely lost although both believers. It was a struggle early on because I had a lot to learn. I had to learn how to help her and not bear the image of the abusers. There is a huge potential, nearly all the time there is transference of any sexual contact being triggers for her. As a man, really still a kid, I had to learn even what triggers were. I had to learn, What I call "holding my manhood in check" to learn patience, delayed gratification and truly sacrifice while we worked through these early years. These are difficult things for a young man to learn at 18. Oh I was stupid. I did many dumb things. I read a ton of marriage books as I was fumbling through those years with absolutely no prototypes or examples as the spouse of the abused to figure it all out. Now in these later years God has presented several opportunities to help the spouses of the abused learn some things earlier than I did. I have read a lot and studied the subject immensely from the spouses side. I was not my wife's rescuer. I was used by the Holy Spirit to minister to her and her needs but she rescued me.
Now 39 years of marriage and we are absolutely best of friends. We travel everywhere together. My job has me on the road a bit ands he goes with me everywhere and we love it.
There were abuses in my own life (not nearly as severe) and I would not for one second equivocate what I went through to what my wife nor what you have gone through. Nor would I for one second pretend to tell you how you get your healing. I know how God gave me personally back everything I though I had lost in that abuse. In one single day it was as if God took me to the top of the Mountain and showed me how He gave it all back to me It was an amazing night, a huge crowd and It was a small voice that thunder through my heart, "Everything the devourer took away I have restored" I hope that for you. I really do. I would not dare tell you how to achieve that healing. That is personal and between you and God. I love it when people overcome. I love their success.
 
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And FTR if you didn't already know Schaap is as wicked of a man as they come. His blasphemous letters written to that girl sickened me to my core and made me want to actually vomit. I don't think I have ever read anything that made me physically ill before. There is no quarter in my world where its ok for him to stand in front of others to speak, to and no quarter for anyone who gives him one iota of slack. He wants a life of service because he is "repentant"? Go work in a homeless ministry and serve them for a number of years and then we will talk about his fruit of repentance. No man can say what he said about My Lord Jesus Christ and God my Father and I would ever consider calling him a brother. His hubris will never allow it.
 
TidesofTruth said:
I berated no one. I simply asked that if one is going to call it out then name the names and tell what they did. I specifically did not ask for details, nor did I want them. I want them named. and church discipline and all legal punishment to occur. And what you describe here is nearly identical to what my wife suffered except for the physical issues of anatomical internal injury. I don't wish to compare horror stories but I do want to relay to you just a bit so you understand where I am coming from. Certainly the abuses you suffered Are of the absolute worst of their kind. The wounds are forever and only God can do a restorative healing to your heart. And I never demand/ask anyone to participate in that except as the Holy Spirit impresses upon them for their own good and as part of their own healing - certainly not to let the abuser off the hook because by God's grace he killed my wife's abusers before I ever got the chance because there is no way they would continue to exist on this planet had they lived. I would have seen to it they would have been disappeared. Thankfully God took care of that. Now as to my wife's abuses, again without being crass and prurient (because I do know how that effects the abused) My wife was horribly abused and I will reveal what she wrote publicly in a Christian booklet on the matter, written to help other abused women.
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looking back at it... berating might have been too strong a word in regards to what you wrote.....and when i wrote that first post to you i was actually thinking of not only your post... but also the posts made by another forum member to sawthruglasslcearly as well... (average joe)... i do get things mixed up like that sometimes... .. but i maintain my defense of her and stand behind her 100% in her endeavors to bring the persons who abused her to justice.. and to expose what she knows of the corruption in the church she knows and has been a part of... in her time... and when God leads her to do it... ... ...but in my experience the practice of demanding names.. dates and specifics in response to someone who has voiced a concern or greivance such as hers is generally done to discourage any discourse and make a defense of the person or institutions in question... . you say that is not what you are doing but i hope you realize that is how it came across....

thank you for writing all that you did in this latest post..... it helps me understand where you are coming from a little better..... . from what you say it sounds like your wife suffered some very severe abuse that i did not.. . some things were exactly the same... but some were much worse than what i experienced.... i was never beaten like she was.... nor tied up... and was never malnourished.... ..in fact my mom taught me how to stand in a chair and cook my own spaghettios just so i wouldn;t be... (and also so i wouldn;t try to wake her up from a hangover if i was hungry)... and she made sure the kitchen was always stocked with food i knew how to cook myself....
....... {edited to remove information that anyone who needed to see, has already seen..... and because if they haven;t seen it yet then they probaby don;t need to...}

i;m sorry if that comes off as me trying to compare a horror story.... but i;m actually not.... all that is information i have posted before on the various fff forums over the years.....most often in answer to questions people asked me.... ..i kept my mothers dirty secrets until the day i was taken to the hospital and told it was safe to tell them the truth...

i can;t complain in the least about the life i have been allowed to lead in the years since all that happened.... God not only opened doors for me but He also pushed me into motion and told me when it was time to run through them.... healing from all the abusive years didn;t happen over night... and it wasn;t without a few setbacks either... but it has progressed with the help of doctors and professional counsellors who are christian and very dedicated to their work..... and also meds to help control the symptoms of schizophrenia.. ...and thank you for not trying to tell me how to go about healing..... as you said it really is between me and God.. and those who He has placed in my life to guide me.... .i know of many out there with stories far worse than mine... and i know of many who did not survive what was done to them... in many cases the people who abused them are still out there having never been brought to justice.... ..compassion is what they all need the most.. and prayer.... as you know from your own experiences it goes a long way...
 
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