Is a Fundamentalist an Evangelical?

[FSSL]

My prof in seminary viewed fundamentalists separately from evangelicals.

Historically, the term "fundamentalist" was coined in the late 1980s. "New evangelical" was coined in 1947 by Ockenga.

How have you used (or understood) the term "evangelical?" Have you understood it to be a distinction without a difference from "new evangelicalism?" Do you include fundamentalists under the canopy of evangelicalism?

 

[abcaines]

The terms "Fundamentalist" and "evangelical" have devolved into labels, one denoting a hard line adherent to a strict code of doctrine and behavior, the other meaning someone who adheres to the historic tenets of the faith but is open to associating with those who hold minor differences of faith and practice. Oddly, the term "evangelical" has become less descriptive of doing the work of an evangelist and more descriptive of a certain church environment.

I've not ever used the term "new" or "neo" evangelical... I suppose, owing to my "fundamentalist" background, I tend to view the new/neo labels as denoting a softening of historic orthodoxy.

 

[Bruh]

My understanding is that fundamentalist is all by itself.

 

[aleshanee]

My prof in seminary viewed fundamentalists separately from evangelicals.

Historically, the term "fundamentalist" was coined in the late 1980s. "New evangelical" was coined in 1947 by Ockenga.

How have you used (or understood) the term "evangelical?" Have you understood it to be a distinction without a difference from "new evangelicalism?" Do you include fundamentalists under the canopy of evangelicalism?

is that a typing error?.... or did you intend to say the term fundamentalist was coined in 1980? ...

according to what i read when i first joined the fff in 2004 ... and started looking into what it meant to be a fundamentalist.... i found that the word "fundamentalist" ..as it related to christians... first appeared in print in 1920.... a guy named Curtis Lee Laws . who was editor of a baptist newspaper called the watchman examiner... suggested that christians who were fighting for the fundamentals of the faith - should be called "fundamentalists"....
.
my dads grandfather was a member of the j frank norris church in fort worth texas... and he remembers his grandfather saying norris referred to himself as a fundamentalist and was considered by many to be the leader of what had already been identified as the fundamentalist movement..... that was also somewhere around the 1920s to 1930s... .

 

[biscuit1953]

“Curtis Lee Lawes, editor of the Watchman-Examiner,. A national Baptist paper, who came home from the 1920 conference in Buffalo and, as he kept thinking of the references to Fundamentals, dubbed the men as “Fundamentalist” - the first recorded use of the name as such. Lawes wrote:

Not only are we in danger of compromising our distinctive Baptist principles, we are also in danger of compromising our more fundamental Christian principles. The recent Interchurch World Movement emasculated Christianity by eliminating all doctrinal emphasis from its pronouncements and appeals.” George Dollar, A History of Fundamentalism in America (Bob Jones University Press, 1973. p. 150)

In 1895 the Niagara Bible Conference issued a Statement of Belief commonly listed as the Five Fundamentals of the Faith as:

1. The inspiration of the Bible
2. The depravity of man
3. Redemption through Christ’s blood
4. The true church made up of all believers
5. The coming of the Lord to set up His reign.

Dr. Dollar (Bob Jones University) defines the “Fundamentals of the Faith”in 1973 as:
1. The verbal inspiration of the Bible in its original writings and the reliability of the King James Version
2. The depravity of man
3. The deity of the Lord Jesus Christ
4. The virgin birth
5. The sinless life of Christ
6. His vicarious atoning death
7. His bodily resurrection
8. His ascension to the right hand of the Father
9. In addition, most Fundamental men made a doctrinal issue of His imminent coming to rapture the Church
10. The occurrence of the Rapture before the Great Tribulation of seven years
11. The return of the Lord to reign from Jerusalem over the earth for 1,000 years

Obviously the specifics mentioned of Bible prophecy has disagreement among many Christians.

 

[FSSL]

is that a typing error?.... or did you intend to say the term fundamentalist was coined in 1980? ...

according to what i read when i first joined the fff in 2004 ... and started looking into what it meant to be a fundamentalist.... i found that the word "fundamentalist" ..as it related to christians... first appeared in print in 1920.... a guy named Curtis Lee Laws . who was editor of a baptist newspaper called the watchman examiner... suggested that christians who were fighting for the fundamentals of the faith - should be called "fundamentalists"....
.
my dads grandfather was a member of the j frank norris church in fort worth texas... and he remembers his grandfather saying norris referred to himself as a fundamentalist and was considered by many to be the leader of what had already been identified as the fundamentalist movement..... that was also somewhere around the 1920s to 1930s... .

Yes. Typo! I should not post at 2 am!

Fundamentalism started a rapid decline in the 1980s.

 

[Ransom]

How have you used (or understood) the term "evangelical?" Have you understood it to be a distinction without a difference from "new evangelicalism?" Do you include fundamentalists under the canopy of evangelicalism?

I generally use the term in its historic sense. When I say I am an "evangelical," I mean the following:

In one of the most useful general definitions of the phenomenon, the British historian David Bebbington has identified the key ingredients of evangelicalism as conversionism (an emphasis on the “new birth” as a life changing religious experience), biblicism (a reliance on the Bible as ultimate religious authority), activism (a concern for sharing the faith), and crucicentrism (a focus on Christ's redeeming work on the cross). (Mark A. Noll, The Scandal of the Evangelical Mind [Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1993], 8.)​

By that definition, obviously there's considerable overlap. Or should be. But there was a split between the evangelical movement and the fundamentalist movement in the mid-20th century, with Ockena's "new evangelicals" wanting to understand, engage with, and confront the culture, and the fundamentalists wanting to retreat and separate from it.

"New evangelical" was coined in 1947 by Ockenga.

And not used much anymore except by fundamentalists, whose understanding of the culture dates from approximately 1947, as a pejorative.

 

[Baptist Renegade]

My prof in seminary viewed fundamentalists separately from evangelicals.

Historically, the term "fundamentalist" was coined in the late 1980s. "New evangelical" was coined in 1947 by Ockenga.

How have you used (or understood) the term "evangelical?" Have you understood it to be a distinction without a difference from "new evangelicalism?" Do you include fundamentalists under the canopy of evangelicalism?

Nancy Pearcey, in the introduction of her book "Total Truth," speaks of Fundamentalism in light of the Scopes trial that resorted to isolationism, circling the wagons, and championing "separatism" as a positive strategy. She speaks favorably of the neo-evangelicals naming them as such saying that it was a movement in the 1940s and 1950s with those who wanted to break out of the fortress in order to engage the culture rather than escaping it (Pearcey, 2004, 18).

Of course the term "neo-evangelical" is regarded as a "cuss word" among the IFB crowd and I still think of the term rather contemptuously and although the author of my textbook makes a rather valid point, I believe that history does show that some of these "Neo-Evangelicals" were a little too eager and ambitious to secure a seat at the "cool kid's table" and made some compromises they should not have in order to do so.

Anyway, I guess this is a good comparison between the two terms.

 

[Bob Jones VI]

My prof in seminary viewed fundamentalists separately from evangelicals.

Historically, the term "fundamentalist" was coined in the late 1980s. "New evangelical" was coined in 1947 by Ockenga.

How have you used (or understood) the term "evangelical?" Have you understood it to be a distinction without a difference from "new evangelicalism?" Do you include fundamentalists under the canopy of evangelicalism?

Our profs at Maranatha (92-95) said Evangelical was the broader group including Fundamentalists. But Fundamentalists believe in secondary separation, separate from anyone who will not leave a corrupt denomination.

 

[Bob Jones VI]

is that a typing error?.... or did you intend to say the term fundamentalist was coined in 1980? ...

according to what i read when i first joined the fff in 2004 ... and started looking into what it meant to be a fundamentalist.... i found that the word "fundamentalist" ..as it related to christians... first appeared in print in 1920.... a guy named Curtis Lee Laws . who was editor of a baptist newspaper called the watchman examiner... suggested that christians who were fighting for the fundamentals of the faith - should be called "fundamentalists"....
.
my dads grandfather was a member of the j frank norris church in fort worth texas... and he remembers his grandfather saying norris referred to himself as a fundamentalist and was considered by many to be the leader of what had already been identified as the fundamentalist movement..... that was also somewhere around the 1920s to 1930s... .

I did not know that your Dad had that history. I thought he was a Navy or some other military man, and was a diver in more recent years.

 

[aleshanee]

I did not know that your Dad had that history. I thought he was a Navy or some other military man, and was a diver in more recent years.

he was never in the navy himself... but he has been diving since he was a child...... and he worked as a private contractor/truck driver for the u.s. government at one time..... and also to the navy/marines from time to time in a paramedic/trainer capacity... .... in fact he was still teaching medical rescue skills to marine corps medics up until a few years ago.... ...but he;s officially retired from all that now....

his natural father was a navy diver from the mid to late 1950s... . the old school frogman days.... .and he had my dad in the water breathing through an old first generation scuba set up before he even started gradeschool.... he told me his dad in full scuba gear swam with him right next to him and carried the tank he was breathing from under his arm..... he has his own child sized fins and mask ... .. then later he got official training in salvage diving and underwater rigging etc from a private commercial diving company... .most of the people that worked for that company are ex-navy.... he was one of the few there that never was...... he still goes down to the dive barge when it;s in port and sits with the other retired divers and talk story... .. i go with him frequently and sometimes even sit the with them listening to them until the cigar smoke finally drives me out.....

 

[Bob Jones VI]

he was never in the navy himself... but he has been diving since he was a child...... and he worked as a private contractor/truck driver for the u.s. government at one time..... and also to the navy/marines from time to time in a paramedic/trainer capacity... .... in fact he was still teaching medical rescue skills to marine corps medics up until a few years ago.... ...but he;s officially retired from all that now....

his natural father was a navy diver from the mid to late 1950s... . the old school frogman days.... .and he had my dad in the water breathing through an old first generation scuba set up before he even started gradeschool.... he told me his dad in full scuba gear swam with him right next to him and carried the tank he was breathing from under his arm..... he has his own child sized fins and mask ... .. then later he got official training in salvage diving and underwater rigging etc from a private commercial diving company... .most of the people that worked for that company are ex-navy.... he was one of the few there that never was...... he still goes down to the dive barge when it;s in port and sits with the other retired divers and talk story... .. i go with him frequently and sometimes even sit the with them listening to them until the cigar smoke finally drives me out.....

'ya big sissy. LOL

 

[aleshanee]

'ya big sissy. LOL

... i know.... i actually tried to smoke a cigar once ...(just to teach him a lesson).... but that turned out very badly.... ....and while diving and working underwater is definitely in his familys genetics..... it;s not in mine.... i;m adopted.... and i can;t scuba dive at all... . i panic every time i attempt to go under water breathing through regulator.... . almost to the point of seizure.... it;s really bad.. ..... but i can snorkel and freedive down to 20 feet to spear fish for octopus and other things/fish etc to take home for dinner.... .... but that;s about it.... and about my underwater limit too...... i was definitely built for other things....

 

[Bob Jones VI]

... i know.... i actually tried to smoke a cigar once ...(just to teach him a lesson).... but that turned out very badly.... ....and while diving and working underwater is definitely in his familys genetics..... it;s not in mine.... i;m adopted.... and i can;t scuba dive at all... . i panic every time i attempt to go under water breathing through regulator.... . almost to the point of seizure.... it;s really bad.. ..... but i can snorkel and freedive down to 20 feet to spear fish for octopus and other things/fish etc to take home for dinner.... .... but that;s about it.... and about my underwater limit too...... i was definitely built for other things....

When my daughter was 17 she said "Dad, I wanna smoke a cigarette." So I bought a pack of Parliaments, lit one up, handed it to her and said, "try it." She puffed it, not inhaling and blew the smoke out and said, "Not bad." I said, "Oh, no, you have to inhale. Take a big long drag and fully inhale." She almost puked. That was the end of her smoking career.

 

[aleshanee]

When my daughter was 17 she said "Dad, I wanna smoke a cigarette." So I bought a pack of Parliaments, lit one up, handed it to her and said, "try it." She puffed it, not inhaling and blew the smoke out and said, "Not bad." I said, "Oh, no, you have to inhale. Take a big long drag and fully inhale." She almost puked. That was the end of her smoking career.

i know someone who tried that with one of his sons when he caught him smoking.... got him into a truck - closed the doors and rolled up the windows .... then pulled out heavy cigars and camel unfiltered cigarettes... .he thought he was going to make a point with his son and hopefully an impresson... . but he said that kid smoked him into oblivion.... and was still going strong after his dad fell out of the truck and barfed on the ground..... he then had to sit in the passenger seat while his son drove them home....... .. the reseliency of youth is what he blamed it on... . but i think that boy had been smoking a lot longer than his father realized.... and stuff a lot stronger than tobacco....