Hyles name at a funeral

[RAIDER]

[quote author=RAIDER]I'm sure you have proof of what you have said or you would not have posted it on a board.

You must be new here.  Welcome!

LOL
[/quote]

......said the Hacker with 28 posts.

 

[jmancrank]

How many times did you mention Jesus in this small part?

Well, let's see, so far this year I've preached 90 sermons about Jesus, directly. I'm preaching through His life. I've got about another 40 sermons planned in this series. Word count on the document that holds the hundreds of pages of notes from this series indicate that 'Jesus' is found in my outline one thousand three hundred and sixty times. Hyles is mentioned six times. I think I'm good.

IMHO you mentioned Hyles 6 times too many.

 

[Bravo]

Would the gospel be hindered if Hyle's name was not mentioned? Would the sermon content struggle if Hyle's name was not a weekly occurence?

I remember Grady, and Moore telling us not to mention Jack Hyles in our preaching so much because we could not base our theology or convictions on him, we had to base it on the word of God.

I also remember in Schaap's early years he often referenced Bro Hyles. After it while it just seemed weird. He was a man, still very dear to those of us grieving, but it was a bit much to take. Almost like not letting the healing begin for a greiving congregation. You began to wonder if it was an attempt for relevance or credibility for the new pastor.

For years the detractors have called us man worshippers. We used to play it off and say they didn't understand. I get creeped out by a FB page with a daily Dr Hyles quote. Recent events here with Schaap have certainly put Hyles in a new perspective. This even from some veteran deacons. It seems he did some great things but now it seems the accusations through the years may have had some serious merit. Do the ends justify the means? "I don't require my hero's to have a perfect score", these days I would just like a passing grade from those that tell me they are hero's.

Knock me all you want for saying this,... More and more I just want scripture these days and a genuine Christianity.

 

[patriotic]

Would the gospel be hindered if Hyle's name was not mentioned? Would the sermon content struggle if Hyle's name was not a weekly occurence?

I remember Grady, and Moore telling us not to mention Jack Hyles in our preaching so much because we could not base our theology or convictions on h7im, we had to base it on the word of God.

I also remember in Schaap's early years he often referenced Bro Hyles. After it while it just seemed weird. He was a man, still very dear to those of us grieving, but it was a bit much to take. Almost like not letting the healing begin for a greiving congregation. You began to wonder if it was an attempt for relevance or credibility for the new pastor.

For years the detractors have called us man worshippers. We used to play it off and say they didn't understand. I get creeped out by a FB page with a daily Dr Hyles quote. Recent events here with Schaap have certainly put Hyles in a new perspective. This even from some veteran deacons. It seems he did some great things but now it seems the accusations through the years may have had some serious merit. Do the ends justify the means? "I don't require my hero's to have a perfect score", these days I would just like a passing grade from those that tell me they are hero's.

Knock me all you want for saying this,... More and more I just want scripture these days and a genuine Christianity.

I have admired certain traits of mostly unknown people. I don't ever recalling nsming anyone as my hero.

For instance, a former SS teacher I had in primary years was also one of my dad's SS teachers when Dad was aboy. She finally stepped down from teaching SS when close to 80 years of age and nearly blind. I have an aunt who taught pre-shool Mon-Fri. She taught Beginner SS class even longer. While in her early 70s, she was still picking up her "old ladies who can't drive" for every church service.

I guess my parents were able to instill in me, that, while some are worthy of certain level of admiration,  no one is worthy of worship except God alone.  This was true of anyone -church or secular. I still remember my mom's pulling a poster of Michael Jordan off jy hrother's wall and saying we worship only the Lord in this house.

 

[Bravo]

Would the gospel be hindered if Hyle's name was not mentioned? Would the sermon content struggle if Hyle's name was not a weekly occurence?

I remember Grady, and Moore telling us not to mention Jack Hyles in our preaching so much because we could not base our theology or convictions on h7im, we had to base it on the word of God.

I also remember in Schaap's early years he often referenced Bro Hyles. After it while it just seemed weird. He was a man, still very dear to those of us grieving, but it was a bit much to take. Almost like not letting the healing begin for a greiving congregation. You began to wonder if it was an attempt for relevance or credibility for the new pastor.

For years the detractors have called us man worshippers. We used to play it off and say they didn't understand. I get creeped out by a FB page with a daily Dr Hyles quote. Recent events here with Schaap have certainly put Hyles in a new perspective. This even from some veteran deacons. It seems he did some great things but now it seems the accusations through the years may have had some serious merit. Do the ends justify the means? "I don't require my hero's to have a perfect score", these days I would just like a passing grade from those that tell me they are hero's.

Knock me all you want for saying this,... More and more I just want scripture these days and a genuine Christianity.

I have admired certain traits of mostly unknown people. I don't ever recalling nsming anyone as my hero.

For instance, a former SS teacher I had in primary years was also one of my dad's SS teachers when Dad was aboy. She finally stepped down from teaching SS when close to 80 years of age and nearly blind. I have an aunt who taught pre-shool Mon-Fri. She taught Beginner SS class even longer. While in her early 70s, she was still picking up her "old ladies who can't drive" for every church service.

I guess my parents were able to instill in me, that, while some are worthy of certain level of admiration,  no one is worthy of worship except God alone.  This was true of anyone -church or secular. I still remember my mom's pulling a poster of Michael Jordan off my hrother's wall and saying we worship only the Lord in this house.

I agree with the point of your post whole heartedly.

 

[Baptist City Holdout]

About a month ago I spoke at a conference and evoked the name of Raider several times. It went something like Raider this and Raider that. If people didn't know any better they would think Raider had a large influence in my life. As I looked out at the crowd, it was obvious many people did not know this Raider but were definitely interested in him. What an influence!

 

[Bravo]

About a month ago I spoke at a conference and evoked the name of Raider several times. It went something like Raider this and Raider that. If people didn't know any better they would think Raider had a large influence in my life. As I looked out at the crowd, it was obvious many people did not know this Raider but were definitely interested in him. What an influence!

He is "the Most Interesting Hacker In The World.

 

[bgwilkinson]

About a week ago I had a small part in the sermon of my local church. I was honored to speak of how the Word of God was applied practically to daily life. The interesting thing was, as I did so, I evoked Jack Hyles name several times in my message; something like"Jack Hyles this...and Jack Hyles that." If you didn't know better you'd think Jack Hyles taught me some very practical truths from the Word of God.

Sitting on the platform looking out at the crowd, my perception by the look on the peoples' faces was "that was a blessing."

Interesting sermon that showed me the continued blessing Hyles' legacy still leaves.

I just threw up. So glad I dont attend your church. Using an unrepentant adulterer in your sermon is nothing to brag about on a board!

I'm sure you have proof of what you have said or you would not have posted it on a board.

If you are asking for photographs I would say they probably don't exist.

The evidence to support the allegation can be obtained from the transcripts of Bro. Hyles many lengthy depositions in the JN divorce case. They are public record. You can get copies at the Lake County Court House. Robert Sumner references them but leaves the most damaging ones on the cutting room floor.

I think he was too embarrassed to print them, I would not have in his place either.

You can use Robert Sumners article as a road map to find all the evidence just waiting for you.

http://www.biblicalevangelist.org/jack_hyles_chapter3.php

Voyle Glover has more evidence in his book.

Linda Hyles has additional supporting documentation and evidence in her downloadable book.

Vic Nischik has corroborating testimony in his book.

There are many others who can give eye witness accounts as they were there and watched it unfold.

People ask, "if this was true, then why didn't you do something about it?"

Answer. We didn't want to believe it, so we refused to believe it. Bro. Hyles always said, "if I didn't see it, it didn't happen."

He taught that to us and we practiced it with him and for him.

We didn't see it, but we saw the evidence of it.

The evidence is overwhelming and easily obtainable.

1. Means? Yes

2. Motive?  yep

3. Opportunity?  And how, almost unlimited and in total privacy behind locked doors and locked minds.

Preponderance of the evidence? Certainly.

Beyond a reasonable doubt? You decide after you read the evidence.

 

[IFB X-Files]

[quote author=RAIDER]I'm sure you have proof of what you have said or you would not have posted it on a board.

You must be new here.  Welcome! [/quote]

Touché!

 

[Mathew Ward]

About a week ago I had a small part in the sermon of my local church. I was honored to speak of how the Word of God was applied practically to daily life. The interesting thing was, as I did so, I evoked Jack Hyles name several times in my message; something like"Jack Hyles this...and Jack Hyles that." If you didn't know better you'd think Jack Hyles taught me some very practical truths from the Word of God.

Sitting on the platform looking out at the crowd, my perception by the look on the peoples' faces was "that was a blessing."

Interesting sermon that showed me the continued blessing Hyles' legacy still leaves.

I just threw up. So glad I dont attend your church. Using an unrepentant adulterer in your sermon is nothing to brag about on a board!

I'm sure you have proof of what you have said or you would not have posted it on a board.

If you are asking for photographs I would say they probably don't exist.

The evidence to support the allegation can be obtained from the transcripts of Bro. Hyles many lengthy depositions in the JN divorce case. They are public record. You can get copies at the Lake County Court House. Robert Sumner references them but leaves the most damaging ones on the cutting room floor.

I think he was too embarrassed to print them, I would not have in his place either.

You can use Robert Sumners article as a road map to find all the evidence just waiting for you.

http://www.biblicalevangelist.org/jack_hyles_chapter3.php

Voyle Glover has more evidence in his book.

Linda Hyles has additional supporting documentation and evidence in her downloadable book.

Vic Nischik has corroborating testimony in his book.

There are many others who can give eye witness accounts as they were there and watched it unfold.

People ask, "if this was true, then why didn't you do something about it?"

Answer. We didn't want to believe it, so we refused to believe it. Bro. Hyles always said, "if I didn't see it, it didn't happen."

He taught that to us and we practiced it with him and for him.

We didn't see it, but we saw the evidence of it.

The evidence is overwhelming and easily obtainable.

1. Means? Yes

2. Motive?  yep

3. Opportunity?  And how, almost unlimited and in total privacy behind locked doors and locked minds.

Preponderance of the evidence? Certainly.

Beyond a reasonable doubt? You decide after you read the evidence.

That is going to leave a permanent mark.

 

[qwerty]

About a week ago I had a small part in the sermon of my local church. I was honored to speak of how the Word of God was applied practically to daily life. The interesting thing was, as I did so, I evoked Jack Hyles name several times in my message; something like"Jack Hyles this...and Jack Hyles that." If you didn't know better you'd think Jack Hyles taught me some very practical truths from the Word of God.

Sitting on the platform looking out at the crowd, my perception by the look on the peoples' faces was "that was a blessing."

Interesting sermon that showed me the continued blessing Hyles' legacy still leaves.

I just threw up. So glad I dont attend your church. Using an unrepentant adulterer in your sermon is nothing to brag about on a board!

I'm sure you have proof of what you have said or you would not have posted it on a board.

If you are asking for photographs I would say they probably don't exist.

The evidence to support the allegation can be obtained from the transcripts of Bro. Hyles many lengthy depositions in the JN divorce case. They are public record. You can get copies at the Lake County Court House. Robert Sumner references them but leaves the most damaging ones on the cutting room floor.

I think he was too embarrassed to print them, I would not have in his place either.

You can use Robert Sumners article as a road map to find all the evidence just waiting for you.

http://www.biblicalevangelist.org/jack_hyles_chapter3.php

Voyle Glover has more evidence in his book.

Linda Hyles has additional supporting documentation and evidence in her downloadable book.

Vic Nischik has corroborating testimony in his book.

There are many others who can give eye witness accounts as they were there and watched it unfold.

People ask, "if this was true, then why didn't you do something about it?"

Answer. We didn't want to believe it, so we refused to believe it. Bro. Hyles always said, "if I didn't see it, it didn't happen."

He taught that to us and we practiced it with him and for him.

We didn't see it, but we saw the evidence of it.

The evidence is overwhelming and easily obtainable.

1. Means? Yes

2. Motive?  yep

3. Opportunity?  And how, almost unlimited and in total privacy behind locked doors and locked minds.

Preponderance of the evidence? Certainly.

Beyond a reasonable doubt? You decide after you read the evidence.

So in 25 years, no one has ever gone and posted the alleged information on file.... But it exists? Yeah right.

 

[bgwilkinson]

None are so blind as those who refuse to see.
I was in that camp for many years, no longer.

 

[RAIDER]

About a month ago I spoke at a conference and evoked the name of Raider several times. It went something like Raider this and Raider that. If people didn't know any better they would think Raider had a large influence in my life. As I looked out at the crowd, it was obvious many people did not know this Raider but were definitely interested in him. What an influence!

I hope you signed Bibles after the service. 

 

[RAIDER]

About a week ago I had a small part in the sermon of my local church. I was honored to speak of how the Word of God was applied practically to daily life. The interesting thing was, as I did so, I evoked Jack Hyles name several times in my message; something like"Jack Hyles this...and Jack Hyles that." If you didn't know better you'd think Jack Hyles taught me some very practical truths from the Word of God.

Sitting on the platform looking out at the crowd, my perception by the look on the peoples' faces was "that was a blessing."

Interesting sermon that showed me the continued blessing Hyles' legacy still leaves.

I just threw up. So glad I dont attend your church. Using an unrepentant adulterer in your sermon is nothing to brag about on a board!

I'm sure you have proof of what you have said or you would not have posted it on a board.

If you are asking for photographs I would say they probably don't exist.

The evidence to support the allegation can be obtained from the transcripts of Bro. Hyles many lengthy depositions in the JN divorce case. They are public record. You can get copies at the Lake County Court House. Robert Sumner references them but leaves the most damaging ones on the cutting room floor.

I think he was too embarrassed to print them, I would not have in his place either.

You can use Robert Sumners article as a road map to find all the evidence just waiting for you.

http://www.biblicalevangelist.org/jack_hyles_chapter3.php

Voyle Glover has more evidence in his book.

Linda Hyles has additional supporting documentation and evidence in her downloadable book.

Vic Nischik has corroborating testimony in his book.

There are many others who can give eye witness accounts as they were there and watched it unfold.

People ask, "if this was true, then why didn't you do something about it?"

Answer. We didn't want to believe it, so we refused to believe it. Bro. Hyles always said, "if I didn't see it, it didn't happen."

He taught that to us and we practiced it with him and for him.

We didn't see it, but we saw the evidence of it.

The evidence is overwhelming and easily obtainable.

1. Means? Yes

2. Motive?  yep

3. Opportunity?  And how, almost unlimited and in total privacy behind locked doors and locked minds.

Preponderance of the evidence? Certainly.

Beyond a reasonable doubt? You decide after you read the evidence.

So in 25 years, no one has ever gone and posted the alleged information on file.... But it exists? Yeah right.

What he said.

 

[Fresh Air]

So in 25 years, no one has ever gone and posted the alleged information on file.... But it exists? Yeah right.

Lol, this reminds me of the go rounds we used to have with Vic Nischik on the threaded version of the FFF a looooong time ago. He and Voyle Glover both actively posted back then, and Vic always claimed to have a box of 'proof.' Curiously, he could never furnish either a picture of said box, which supposedly contained letter from JH to JN, or picture of the letters, or any eye witness testimony of any person who had ever seen said box or said letters. It reminds me curiously of the golden plates Joseph Smith found in New York, lo, those many years ago...

 

[RAIDER]

So in 25 years, no one has ever gone and posted the alleged information on file.... But it exists? Yeah right.

Lol, this reminds me of the go rounds we used to have with Vic Nischik on the threaded version of the FFF a looooong time ago. He and Voyle Glover both actively posted back then, and Vic always claimed to have a box of 'proof.' Curiously, he could never furnish either a picture of said box, which supposedly contained letter from JH to JN, or picture of the letters, or any eye witness testimony of any person who had ever seen said box or said letters. It reminds me curiously of the golden plates Joseph Smith found in New York, lo, those many years ago...

I have always wondered the same.  As much as has been said and printed, and as many enemies as there are, you would think someone would have come forward with the "proof" that several people supposedly have.

 

[rsc2a]

Maybe I'm blissfully unaware of all things fundy, but the idea that Hyles had enemies is news to me. People who lost their belief that he could walk on water...I'll accept that. But this talk of enemies reminds me of Ruckman being on Reno's hit list. And now I hear about "many" enemies...

 

[RAIDER]

Maybe I'm blissfully unaware of all things fundy, but the idea that Hyles had enemies is news to me. People who lost their belief that he could walk on water...I'll accept that. But this talk of enemies reminds me of Ruckman being on Reno's hit list. And now I hear about "many" enemies...

Possibly the word "enemy" may be too strong.  Again, it may not.  There were plenty that wanted him out of the ministry.

 

[TidesofTruth]

None are so blind as those who refuse to see.
I was in that camp for many years, no longer.

Did all this 25 years ago.  Read it all.  Examined all the evidence. Reexamined it several times since.  Considered the accusers veracity.  Came to the conclusion on a few things.

1,  Bro. Hyles failed at living above reproach.  He failed at some of the very things he warned about.  Living Accountable and Transparent is vitally important for all believers but especially those in leadership. 

2.  All Men are Fallible.

3.  Hindsight is not 20/20 EVER!

4.  Not enough evidence to convict on Acts of Adultery, Acts of Fraud.

5.  Plenty of evidence to have demanded accountability and answers.

6.  The Important thing in my life is my response to men's failure, not their failure.

I do not believe where there is smoke there is fire.  I have seen other leaders who have developed relationships that were not God honoring but the person was able to keep the physical aspect in check.  I am not declaring that to be in this case but I don't have evidence to the contrary and neither does anyone else including all the testimony and "witnesses".  It is still a sin.  It is still wrong.    I have learned how to deal with man's failures.  I have been disappointed.  I have been hurt by many.  God has healed many things in my life and He has shown me how to love them,  not excuse their sin, but love them.

I look forward to God's kingdom where relationships are restored and God sorts all the mess out.  I love him. but I never worshipped him, ever.  He never shed his blood for me.  Jesus Christ is my all.

 

[RAIDER]

None are so blind as those who refuse to see.
I was in that camp for many years, no longer.

Did all this 25 years ago.  Read it all.  Examined all the evidence. Reexamined it several times since.  Considered the accusers veracity.  Came to the conclusion on a few things.

1,  Bro. Hyles failed at living above reproach.  He failed at some of the very things he warned about.  Living Accountable and Transparent is vitally important for all believers but especially those in leadership. 

2.  All Men are Fallible.

3.  Hindsight is not 20/20 EVER!

4.  Not enough evidence to convict on Acts of Adultery, Acts of Fraud.

5.  Plenty of evidence to have demanded accountability and answers.

6.  The Important thing in my life is my response to men's failure, not their failure.

I do not believe where there is smoke there is fire.  I have seen other leaders who have developed relationships that were not God honoring but the person was able to keep the physical aspect in check.  It I am not declaring that to be in this case but I don't have evidence to the contrary and neither does anyone else including all the testimony and "witnesses".  It is still a sin.  It is still wrong.    I have learned how to deal with man's failures.  I have been disappointed.  I have been hurt by many.  God has healed many things in my life and He has shown me how to love them,  not excuse their sin, but love them.

I look forward to God's kingdom where relationships are restored and God sorts all the mess out.  I love him. but I never worshipped him, ever.  He never shed his blood for me.  Jesus Christ is my all.

Nicely done!