How do you decide the difference??

[kaba]

My sister attended a Pastor run church awhile back. The "Pastor" was mad when she bought a sewing machine without asking him first!

 

[JustABigKid]

My sister attended a Pastor run church awhile back. The "Pastor" was mad when she bought a sewing machine without asking him first!

I know the feeling. My mom goes to such a church and everytime I talk to her about things it is always I will talk to pastor about it. I am like who cares what he thinks about it. It is your life. I mean simple stuff. My mom wanted to quit working since they dont really need the money anymore so she could visit her grandkids more and her first thing was I am going to see what pastor thinks about me quitting. I was like who cares you worked long and hard now it is time for you to take a break!

 

[Recovering IFB]

"I've searched all the parks in all the cities and found no statues of committees".
G.K. Chesterton

That's not manworshipping is it?

 

[Smellin Coffee]

I appreciate all the feed back to my OP.

Now to further the quest for knowledge. If you have a church with a singular pastor that has men around him such as assistant pastors, deacons, etc. What would you as a church member do without splitting a church to make sure that you do not end up with a dictator?

I would leave the church!

 

[JustABigKid]

I appreciate all the feed back to my OP.

Now to further the quest for knowledge. If you have a church with a singular pastor that has men around him such as assistant pastors, deacons, etc. What would you as a church member do without splitting a church to make sure that you do not end up with a dictator?

I would leave the church!

Ok that would be the final straw of course. But surely there are some steps you could take to try to stop it before it gets to that point for the sake of the whole?

 

[Smellin Coffee]

I appreciate all the feed back to my OP.

Now to further the quest for knowledge. If you have a church with a singular pastor that has men around him such as assistant pastors, deacons, etc. What would you as a church member do without splitting a church to make sure that you do not end up with a dictator?

I would leave the church!

Ok that would be the final straw of course. But surely there are some steps you could take to try to stop it before it gets to that point for the sake of the whole?

When the church is led by men instead of Christ, there is a pretty good chance it will fail somewhere down the line. Doesn't matter if it is one pastor or a plurality of elders. Power corrupts which is why Christ did not want the church to be operated with authority figures, IMHO.

 

[rsc2a]

I appreciate all the feed back to my OP.

Now to further the quest for knowledge. If you have a church with a singular pastor that has men around him such as assistant pastors, deacons, etc. What would you as a church member do without splitting a church to make sure that you do not end up with a dictator?

I would leave the church!

Ok that would be the final straw of course. But surely there are some steps you could take to try to stop it before it gets to that point for the sake of the whole?

This was my previous church.

- I asked questions to the leadership when I thought something was amiss or when I disagreed with a particular focus or direction (while intentionally not discussing it with other members). The only other person I would discuss this stuff with was my wife.
- I made statements intended to encourage the leadership to go deeper than the 2" that everything appeared to be (which did lead the them occasionally asking my opinion in some particular areas).
-  I started a class for potential leaders where I taught ecclesiology and homiletics from a wider perspective than the church's official teaching. (i.e. It was a discussion about what various Christian traditions believed and why.) I made it known what my intentions were and asked permission of the leadership before I offered the class and requested that they sit in on it. With them as part of the audience, I tried to subtlety correct what I thought were some serious errors without explicitly critiquing what the church was doing.
- My wife and I quietly served in capacities that we ended up hating, yet we continued to do so because few others would volunteer for the tasks.

Through all this, I kept struggling with the line between submitting to the leadership over me and leaving because of significant differences. I ultimately left when I was pretty explicitly (although not flat-out) told that I needed to stop questioning things, that if I couldn't accept everything the church did without question, then I needed to find another church "for the sake of unity". We started to disengage from the areas we were serving and I asked to meet with the leadership multiple times to tell them we were leaving. They would never make themselves available so we ultimately just left. I told a few close friends in the church that we were leaving without saying why, with the exception of one couple (I didn't want to even appear like I was trying to be divisive.) A few others also informed us that they too were quietly looking to leave the particular church.

Later, when a few others left, I would tell them why we ultimately chose to leave and they stated that they felt like we had been done pretty dirty, and that they didn't have any details, but they kind of guessed what had happened. And those are the steps that I took.

Edited to add: Also, the entire time this was going on, I was in regular discussions with a few other people from other churches who had experienced the same thing. They let me know what they were trying/had tried, how things were progressing, and ultimately agreed with me that I had no choice but to leave in the end.

 

[JustABigKid]

I appreciate all the feed back to my OP.

Now to further the quest for knowledge. If you have a church with a singular pastor that has men around him such as assistant pastors, deacons, etc. What would you as a church member do without splitting a church to make sure that you do not end up with a dictator?

I would leave the church!

Ok that would be the final straw of course. But surely there are some steps you could take to try to stop it before it gets to that point for the sake of the whole?

This was my previous church.

- I asked questions to the leadership when I thought something was amiss or when I disagreed with a particular focus or direction (while intentionally not discussing it with other members). The only other person I would discuss this stuff with was my wife.
- I made statements intended to encourage the leadership to go deeper than the 2" that everything appeared to be (which did lead the them occasionally asking my opinion in some particular areas).
-  I started a class for potential leaders where I taught ecclesiology and homiletics from a wider perspective than the church's official teaching. (i.e. It was a discussion about what various Christian traditions believed and why.) I made it known what my intentions were and asked permission of the leadership before I offered the class and requested that they sit in on it. With them as part of the audience, I tried to subtlety correct what I thought were some serious errors without explicitly critiquing what the church was doing.
- My wife and I quietly served in capacities that we ended up hating, yet we continued to do so because few others would volunteer for the tasks.

Through all this, I kept struggling with the line between submitting to the leadership over me and leaving because of significant differences. I ultimately left when I was pretty explicitly (although not flat-out) told that I needed to stop questioning things, that if I couldn't accept everything the church did without question, then I needed to find another church "for the sake of unity". We started to disengage from the areas we were serving and I asked to meet with the leadership multiple times to tell them we were leaving. They would never make themselves available so we ultimately just left. I told a few close friends in the church that we were leaving without saying why, with the exception of one couple (I didn't want to even appear like I was trying to be divisive.) A few others also informed us that they too were quietly looking to leave the particular church.

Later, when a few others left, I would tell them why we ultimately chose to leave and they stated that they felt like we had been done pretty dirty, and that they didn't have any details, but they kind of guessed what had happened. And those are the steps that I took.

Edited to add: Also, the entire time this was going on, I was in regular discussions with a few other people from other churches who had experienced the same thing. They let me know what they were trying/had tried, how things were progressing, and ultimately agreed with me that I had no choice but to leave in the end.

It seems you made an honest yet non destructive attempt. I think too many times when people try to express their concerns the first thought that comes to mind is that they are trying to split to the church. Thank you for your testimony there.

 

[sword]

In every IFB church I have attended I was taught to agree with the preacher 100% even if he is wrong. Never question their teaching or you risk loosing Gods hand of blessing and protection over your family.

The pastor may say "check everything I say with God's word" but what they mean is if you disagree keep it to yourself. To question a procedure, standard, or ministry in the church is to be disloyal to God man.

Many growing IFB churches seem to have corrected this issue, but too many still practice this style of church leadership. Most of the IFB churches I visit are bleeding members and the young people are leaving as soon as they graduate.

 

[T-Bone]

The model of the NT church is clearly interpreted and applied differently by different groups.  From singular to multiple elders.  To congregational and presbyterian.  I find that through the years the model of leadership in the local church is secondary to the quality of leaders.  Good leaders in any model will lead the church well, why poor leaders in any model will lead the church poorly.

 

[lnf]

The model of the NT church is clearly interpreted and applied differently by different groups.  From singular to multiple elders.  To congregational and presbyterian.  I find that through the years the model of leadership in the local church is secondary to the quality of leaders.  Good leaders in any model will lead the church well, why poor leaders in any model will lead the church poorly.

I agree with you, T-Bone.  It hangs on leadership.  I don't think I would last long in a church leadership model like Sword has described.  Perhaps it's because I had already rejected the Catholic model in my youth.  I couldn't resolve in my heart the need for a priest to hear my confession or the infallibility of the Pope.  I started regularly attending an independent Baptist church when I was in my 40's.  Frankly, I don't know if my church would be considered IFB or not...I never heard the term before I found the old FFF quite by accident, less than a year ago.  My church does have some ideas that seem somewhat IFB in nature, but other ideas, not so much...so I don't stress about it.  But I have never been told to agree with my pastor 100%, or else.  Good thing, because I'm on church staff, now...and I do resemble the I in Independent.  ;D   

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

The model of the NT church is clearly interpreted and applied differently by different groups.  From singular to multiple elders.  To congregational and presbyterian.  I find that through the years the model of leadership in the local church is secondary to the quality of leaders.  Good leaders in any model will lead the church well, why poor leaders in any model will lead the church poorly.

Excellent post and point.