Hawaii and Dr. Hyles

[LongGone]

I have not been to FBCH in over 37 years. I have no reason to disagree with you about Wilkerson. I do wonder what is the legacy he is trying to salvage?

You are assuming he is. Perhaps he is just doing his best to serve his Master in the middle of an enormous mess He tasked him with cleaning up.

Assuming Wilkerson is the genuine article (no reason not to think he is) and the people of FBCH that are genuine have every right to do what they think is best. From my lowly perspective it is hard to understand why anyone would send kids to the college, attend Youth Conference or their Bible Conference. Considering the bad decisions that have been made there...I can do that well without their help 8) 8)

 

[TheRealJonStewart]

Wilkerson is an opportunist. He sees FBC as his elevation. If he only cared about "serving the Master" he would have seen his previous flock as the best place to do that very thing.

Opportunist? Why would he come to FBCH then? There was no elevation there after the scandal. There were more opportunities to elevate his position in Long Beach then in Hammond. FBC Long Beach itself is a well known church with a checkered past as well.

 

[16KJV11]

Wilkerson is an opportunist. He sees FBC as his elevation. If he only cared about "serving the Master" he would have seen his previous flock as the best place to do that very thing.

Opportunist? Why would he come to FBCH then? There was no elevation there after the scandal. There were more opportunities to elevate his position in Long Beach then in Hammond. FBC Long Beach itself is a well known church with a checkered past as well.

It would be like becoming the CEO of the White Star Line after the sinking of the Titanic!

 

[brainisengaged]

Pastor John Wilkerson is the real deal. He is a humble man with a servant's heart who only wants to do what he feels the Lord is leading him to do. He is earnest and honest and seeks not his own. One of the most difficult challenges he has had is the continuing tendency of FBC Hammond to worship its pastor. Pastor Wilkerson has pointedly tried to avoid this tendency. In years past he has purposely been out of town on his birthday so that the church, which tends to excess in matters such as this, could not inordinately honor him. However, this year he turned 50, and there was no avoiding it. His wife's assistance was enlisted, and she gently persuaded him that he HAD to stay in town and face the birthday celebration the church was planning. The Sunday evening service on the week of his birthday was dedicated to a walk-up love offering for the Pastor who had to stand there for an hour as each member came up and gave him money, gifts, hugs, and love.  The goal was $10K, but it ended up being $24K that he was showered with that evening. The church simply does not get it! The following week, Pastor of course graciously thanked the church but he told them point-blank that he was embarrassed, and he stated that he didn't want to make any man an idol. I am guessing the members shrug that off, saying, "Oh, that's not what we're doing." But they are, and they're comfortable in their ways and quite happy that now again they have someone worthy of their idolization. But the vast difference is that this time, the recipient of their idolization recognizes it for the error that it is and is trying his best to discourage the behavior rather than revel in it.

 

[deertracks]

Pastor John Wilkerson is the real deal. He is a humble man with a servant's heart who only wants to do what he feels the Lord is leading him to do. He is earnest and honest and seeks not his own. One of the most difficult challenges he has had is the continuing tendency of FBC Hammond to worship its pastor. Pastor Wilkerson has pointedly tried to avoid this tendency. In years past he has purposely been out of town on his birthday so that the church, which tends to excess in matters such as this, could not inordinately honor him. However, this year he turned 50, and there was no avoiding it. His wife's assistance was enlisted, and she gently persuaded him that he HAD to stay in town and face the birthday celebration the church was planning. The Sunday evening service on the week of his birthday was dedicated to a walk-up love offering for the Pastor who had to stand there for an hour as each member came up and gave him money, gifts, hugs, and love.  The goal was $10K, but it ended up being $24K that he was showered with that evening. The church simply does not get it! The following week, Pastor of course graciously thanked the church but he told them point-blank that he was embarrassed, and he stated that he didn't want to make any man an idol. I am guessing the members shrug that off, saying, "Oh, that's not what we're doing." But they are, and they're comfortable in their ways and quite happy that now again they have someone worthy of their idolization. But the vast difference is that this time, the recipient of their idolization recognizes it for the error that it is and is trying his best to discourage the behavior rather than revel in it.

What did he do with the money that he was embarrassed about them giving?

 

[RAIDER]

Pastor John Wilkerson is the real deal. He is a humble man with a servant's heart who only wants to do what he feels the Lord is leading him to do. He is earnest and honest and seeks not his own. One of the most difficult challenges he has had is the continuing tendency of FBC Hammond to worship its pastor. Pastor Wilkerson has pointedly tried to avoid this tendency. In years past he has purposely been out of town on his birthday so that the church, which tends to excess in matters such as this, could not inordinately honor him. However, this year he turned 50, and there was no avoiding it. His wife's assistance was enlisted, and she gently persuaded him that he HAD to stay in town and face the birthday celebration the church was planning. The Sunday evening service on the week of his birthday was dedicated to a walk-up love offering for the Pastor who had to stand there for an hour as each member came up and gave him money, gifts, hugs, and love.  The goal was $10K, but it ended up being $24K that he was showered with that evening. The church simply does not get it! The following week, Pastor of course graciously thanked the church but he told them point-blank that he was embarrassed, and he stated that he didn't want to make any man an idol. I am guessing the members shrug that off, saying, "Oh, that's not what we're doing." But they are, and they're comfortable in their ways and quite happy that now again they have someone worthy of their idolization. But the vast difference is that this time, the recipient of their idolization recognizes it for the error that it is and is trying his best to discourage the behavior rather than revel in it.

I am aware of the "man worship" through the years at FBCH.  I see the need to change this pattern.  I believe Wilkerson in doing well in that area.  On the other hand, this does not mean that a church can't give the pastor a gift on his birthday.  Why would you think the church simply "does not get it" because of this seemingly normal act?

 

[brainisengaged]

The church "does not get it" because he has made it very clear upon many occasions that he does not want this kind of extra attention / consideration. He feels the ground is very level, and does not wish his person or his position to be elevated. Despite his teaching and saying this, they persist.

Of course it is appropriate for the congregants to express appreciation and kindness to the pastor. However, for this to be the Sunday night service? It should have been a voluntary thing to be scheduled for before or after the evening service, but not ambush the pastor and make it the service itself.

The intent of the gift was to put new windows on the Pastor's house. He has a stately mansion-type house in the historic district of Hammond. (Similar I would imagine to other dying cities, there are old historic districts where the very moneyed class once lived. The homes are now old relics of a bygone era and their upkeep is a burden some willingly undertake in order to try and keep a city alive) The home needs windows, and that will consume much of the $$ from the walk-up love offering. He stated they would also have their home painted with the rest of the money.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

The church "does not get it" because he has made it very clear upon many occasions that he does not want this kind of extra attention / consideration. He feels the ground is very level, and does not wish his person or his position to be elevated. Despite his teaching and saying this, they persist.

Of course it is appropriate for the congregants to express appreciation and kindness to the pastor. However, for this to be the Sunday night service? It should have been a voluntary thing to be scheduled for before or after the evening service, but not ambush the pastor and make it the service itself.

The intent of the gift was to put new windows on the Pastor's house. He has a stately mansion-type house in the historic district of Hammond. (Similar I would imagine to other dying cities, there are old historic districts where the very moneyed class once lived. The homes are now old relics of a bygone era and their upkeep is a burden some willingly undertake in order to try and keep a city alive) The home needs windows, and that will consume much of the $$ from the walk-up love offering. He stated they would also have their home painted with the rest of the money.

As a long tenured Pastor, I would feel very uncomfortable with a walk up offering...which I assume meant people handed their gifts to you personally. Receiving a love offering, sure. A reception in which you personally greet the people, certainly. But not a walk up hand you the gift offering....but that's just me.

 

[Walt]

I believe Bro. Wilkerson was very content at First Baptist Church of Long Beach. It's my understanding Wilkerson came to Hammond for one reason and one reason only. He believed with all his heart that God was calling him to. Why would someone walk into the mess the was FBCH unless he believe with God's guidance he could make a difference.

Pastor Wilkerson is a very humble man who works very hard and serves right along side every one else. He can be seen right beside everyone else when their is work to be done. He is a very humble man who make no attempt to look important. He is very approachable and is always interested in others. He even took the time out of his busy schedule, this summer, to travel some with one of the college tour groups.

It's my opinion God sent him to right the ship that is FBCH. I pray for him and their ministry every day and it is my hope that God will bless it.

I also wish Bro Wilkerson well; I don't know him or even much about him; I'm willing to assume that he is a humble man, trying his best to serve the Lord.  I do hope he manages to turn around the church there to become something that honors the Lord God.

I think he is slowly weeding out the leaders who willingly supported the previous two pastors in their wrong actions.

I keep hoping that some day, he will come out with a "we have sinned" kind of statement that does an outright repudiation of much of the problems caused by Hyles & Schapp... but he may have to be there a decade before he can make such an announcement.

Thinking of time, is it now 5-6 years since Schapp was exposed?  Wow....

 

[Walt]

Pastor John Wilkerson is the real deal. He is a humble man with a servant's heart who only wants to do what he feels the Lord is leading him to do. He is earnest and honest and seeks not his own. One of the most difficult challenges he has had is the continuing tendency of FBC Hammond to worship its pastor. Pastor Wilkerson has pointedly tried to avoid this tendency. In years past he has purposely been out of town on his birthday so that the church, which tends to excess in matters such as this, could not inordinately honor him. However, this year he turned 50, and there was no avoiding it. His wife's assistance was enlisted, and she gently persuaded him that he HAD to stay in town and face the birthday celebration the church was planning. The Sunday evening service on the week of his birthday was dedicated to a walk-up love offering for the Pastor who had to stand there for an hour as each member came up and gave him money, gifts, hugs, and love.  The goal was $10K, but it ended up being $24K that he was showered with that evening. The church simply does not get it! The following week, Pastor of course graciously thanked the church but he told them point-blank that he was embarrassed, and he stated that he didn't want to make any man an idol. I am guessing the members shrug that off, saying, "Oh, that's not what we're doing." But they are, and they're comfortable in their ways and quite happy that now again they have someone worthy of their idolization. But the vast difference is that this time, the recipient of their idolization recognizes it for the error that it is and is trying his best to discourage the behavior rather than revel in it.

He could lose that idol status real fast if he would point out that Hyles was wrong.

 

[prophet]

I believe Bro. Wilkerson was very content at First Baptist Church of Long Beach. It's my understanding Wilkerson came to Hammond for one reason and one reason only. He believed with all his heart that God was calling him to. Why would someone walk into the mess the was FBCH unless he believe with God's guidance he could make a difference.

Pastor Wilkerson is a very humble man who works very hard and serves right along side every one else. He can be seen right beside everyone else when their is work to be done. He is a very humble man who make no attempt to look important. He is very approachable and is always interested in others. He even took the time out of his busy schedule, this summer, to travel some with one of the college tour groups.

It's my opinion God sent him to right the ship that is FBCH. I pray for him and their ministry every day and it is my hope that God will bless it.

Why would someone who teaches the Scriptures think that "God is calling them to a pastorate", since no such concept exists in the NT?

Sent from my H1611 using Tapatalk

 

[Twisted]

Why would someone who teaches the Scriptures think that "God is calling them to a pastoral", since no such concept exists in the NT?

Uh oh....

 

[Jo]

I heard today that Dr. Hyles took his entire female staff to Hawaii with no other males present. I have never heard this before. Can anyone validate if this is true or false?

You are close. Here is a quote from Robert Sumners article.

"As distasteful as it is to mention, perhaps we should refer to what one First Baptist deacon called "common knowledge" around the church, namely, that Jack and Beverly have separate bedrooms, the latter confiding to one of her best friends in Hammond, who told me herself, that Jack had not "touched" her in over 20 years. Others have told me the same. This woman, by the way, quoted Beverly, "Jennie Nischik is the one woman in my husband's life." Mrs. Hyles did not get to attend Dr. John R. Rice's funeral because her husband would not permit her to travel with him to Tennessee. When some of her friends offered to take her with them, she declined, saying she would not know how to explain it to the Rice sisters.

As far back as 1971, Hyles took four women, including Jennie, on an all-expense trip to Hawaii. He went alone with these women, the only male in the group, stayed at the same hotel with them, but his own wife did not accompany the party!"

http://www.biblicalevangelist.org/jack_hyles_chapter3.php

If you want more info it is contained in Robert Sumner's long multi chapter article. This is a fair and balanced look at what went on. I can attest to it's veracity having read the very same depositions.  At the time we were denying it was true, but we knew different. The trip was common knowledge Bro. Hyles even bragged about it publicly, he had us so under his control. It is no wonder that Mrs. Hyles now attends First Baptist Dallas, she never was a big supporter of Bro. Hyles philosophies, she was just a faithful wife caught in a bad marriage to a man she loved devotedly.

I REALLY should have gone to a state college. 

 

[TheRealJonStewart]

I heard today that Dr. Hyles took his entire female staff to Hawaii with no other males present. I have never heard this before. Can anyone validate if this is true or false?

I heard Dr. Hyles was dead, 16 years ago.

 

[patriotic]

I heard today that Dr. Hyles took his entire female staff to Hawaii with no other males present. I have never heard this before. Can anyone validate if this is true or false?

I heard Dr. Hyles was dead, 16 years ago.

Yes, but those who hate him can't keep him buried.  Instead, they perpetuate their own form of man-worship of digging him up (or should I say,  opening the drawer).

The man-worship of digging him up is really self-worship, enslavement to their passions of dislike, bowing to the golden-calf of re-bashing, and re-bashing, and re-bashing. 

They are the very people doing the most to keep his name alive, and they're doing a tremendous job of it. 

 

[Jo]

I have a different take on this, but I respect your opinion.

I graduated from HAC in the 70s and was naive about the trips, the affairs, etc.  Have you ever heard that those who don't know history are condemned to relive it?

Schaap, Dave, Tim, Jack, my youth director, other youth directors.....This pervasive sin has stretched all over the country and all over the decades.  There is no need to dwell on it forever, but the truth needs to come out.

 

[prophet]

I heard today that Dr. Hyles took his entire female staff to Hawaii with no other males present. I have never heard this before. Can anyone validate if this is true or false?

I heard Dr. Hyles was dead, 16 years ago.

Yes, but those who hate him can't keep him buried.  Instead, they perpetuate their own form of man-worship of digging him up (or should I say,  opening the drawer).

The man-worship of digging him up is really self-worship, enslavement to their passions of dislike, bowing to the golden-calf of re-bashing, and re-bashing, and re-bashing. 

They are the very people doing the most to keep his name alive, and they're doing a tremendous job of it.

I'm sorry, Sister, but I have to chide with your post a  bit.

If you watched the C.W.Fisk at FBCH video, you see an old man clinging to the manworship.

The false doctrine that was propagated is so destructive, that it imprisons people for life.

"Don't try to tell your pastor how to run the church, that's God's business"

Here is a man telling electors not to expect their elected representative to receive their input (pastors are elected, as are deacons, and rightly so).
He's telling them that checks and balances are useless, or even against God.
He is lobbying for absolute power at a position where they just lost millions, infrastructure, over 50% of membership, staff (myself included), students, respect, etc., and should be getting instruction on how to correct the underlying false doctrine/practices that got them there.

Does anyone tire of discussing Lincoln?
Roosevelt's? Etc.?

Jack Hyles was a polarizing figure.
He was perhaps the most dynamic and influential figure in his era of fundamentalism.

Yes, eventually, all things Hyles will be history...
But we aren't there, yet.

Patriotic, I'm in MI, the beloved holy lands, and still have family and until last year, business in NWI/Chicagoland.

You wouldn't believe how many times some one who joined FBCH after I left, or was not a regular yet, and has "given me the business" over how great FBCH/all things Hyles are.

As a man, and a servant of the most high, I will spend the rest of my life (among other duties), fighting the cancer that destroyed my church.
Subsequently, I'm occasionally obligated to discuss Hyles.

Hopefully, this is a perspective that sheds light.



Sent from my H1611 using Tapatalk

 

[Twisted]

Sent from my H(yles)1611 using Tapatalk

This man speaks truth.

Just look at the version phone he uses.

 

[prophet]

Sent from my H(yles)1611 using Tapatalk

This man speaks truth.

Just look at the version phone he uses.

[emoji12]

Sent from my H1611 using Tapatalk

 

[Jo]

I had a job interview at a seminary recently. I decided to put HAC on my resume. My relative has scornfully encouraged me to keep it on there; however, she wasn't in the room when I was interviewed.  The older Christian woman happened to be from Indiana originally.  She said, "I haven't heard of HAC?"  I thought I was off the hook.  I said, "Have you heard of Jack Hyles?"  Her face went ashen. Yes, it turns out she had, and it was not good.

The man has left a legacy.  The victims will leave theirs. 

Sent from my KFSOWI using Tapatalk