Hammond pastor blames health, financial woes for his relationship with teen

[Frag]

I am always amazed at the statement..."well he did it, but that is not the kind of person he is"...bologna---that's exactly the kind of person he is, that's why he did it.  That's why him and those like him are disqualified...too bad a certain Florida church can't see that and have trusted the souls of their youth to Braemer!  Pathetic & dangerous!

Again, I am NOT defending Schaap.  There is plenty of evidence of what existed in his heart, before this happened.

If T-Bones comment was specifically about Schaap, then I AMEN him.  But if it was a blanket statement about EVERY man who ever crashed and burned morally, then you have to explain David.

I know a preacher who recently threw away a lengthy ministry at a good, successful church because of an improper relationship with a woman he (unwisely) agreed to counsel one-on-one.  He confessed it before his church, resigned, and had the guts to walk back to the back door and personally apologize to every member of his church as they left.  He now is out of the ministry, and is focused on working on repairing his marriage and his life.  Every one who knew him -- staff, long-time members, wife, children, preacher friends --- everyone agrees this was a one-time foolish and sinful indiscretion, not the unveiling of a secret life.  Good, faithful men (yes, even men after God's own heart) sometimes just do something stupid. 

Again, my exception to the comment is only in regard to ALL situations, not Schaap's.  And if any of you think you are above being the next to fall, you probably just moved yourself to the front of the line.

Wow. Great wisdom. 

We need Frag to post more often.  Finally, a clear sensible voice midst the muck of mental mediocrity.

You've got to be kidding????

1. I bet there is more to your story than you're providing. What has the "women" being "counseled" had to say about him? Why don't you really look at the victim in this instance and not the "victimizer".

2. Just one simple question for you. What IF there was historical evidence to prove that the Apostle Paul committed a "one time" indiscretion? Would his message MEAN anything?

All your talk of David means nothing. David was a king not a spiritual leader of congregation trying to follow Christ.

If you're going to really make a comparison.... What if "Nathan" the prophet had been the one to have stolen a man's wife and had another man "killed"? Do you think he would have still held his position as "prophet"? Or Abiathar the priest?

You can't give one SINGLE example where a "prophet, priest, apostles, pastor or anything of the sort"... held their position after such a situation not ever returned to said position. Care to name one?

Get your facts straight.

Not to mention that David was ruined for the rest of his life. He almost lost his rule to his OWN SON.  How about reading 2 Samuel 18:33 again. David even "numbered" the people which resulted in 70,000 men dying. Oh yeah.... David really recovered well.

I all for the "take heed lest ye fall" but you're being silly about the affects of sin and their punishment. None of US have been judged according to our sin but sin certain has consequence or you "reap what you sow" has no meaning.

Facts straight?

Ok, kettle.....

Where did I say that the victim was not ministered to and her story given ear?

There is Biblical proof that Paul was a murderer.  So, we discount his writings?

Never said a king was the same as a prophet.  I was simply saying that a man can have a one-time failure morally.  And that one-time failure not indicative of the pattern of his life.    David IS proof of this.

Where did I state that a preacher should continue in the ministry if he has had affair?  I stated NO such thing, because I don't believe he should.  The man that I referenced isn't in the ministry any more.  Reading comprehension is not your strong point, huh? 

Where did I say David "recovered well"?  He paid the price in spades.  Never said he didn't. 

You hysterical response is not based on ANYTHING I said or was discussing. 

But, hey, don't let the FACTS get in your way....

 

[Frag]

Wow.  He did it again! 

Frag is amazing. 


And the patience he shows with mentally slow......it is.................touching!    (sniff) 

 

[T-Bone]

I am always amazed at the statement..."well he did it, but that is not the kind of person he is"...bologna---that's exactly the kind of person he is, that's why he did it.  That's why him and those like him are disqualified...too bad a certain Florida church can't see that and have trusted the souls of their youth to Braemer!  Pathetic & dangerous!

I want you to understand I am anything but a Schaap defender. 

Explain your reasoning as you examine the life of David.  The affair with Bathsheba was a one-time moral sin, not the public uncovering of a secret life.

Just saying -- don't let your FBC bias push you into drawing unbiblical conclusions.

Good question brother...When I read David and those around him (ie. Nathan) they did not make excuses for their sin...they did not pass it off as the results of circumstances, financial problems of the kingdom, physical problems...they confessed their sin, which showed they had a heart after God and demonstrated true repentance.  But David did sinm, because he was a sinner and that was what he was like...same is true for Schaap (or you or me)...those making excuses and statements that he is no like that are not helping him or speaking the truth.  As far as qualification(if that is what you are referring to)..I do believe biblically (has nothing to do with being FBC) that there are things that would disqualify a person from the pastorate (that would include me and you too)..can God still use that person, you bet...doesn't mean they are qualified to serve as a under-shephard of a church.

Hope this clarifies.

 

[christundivided]

Facts straight?

Ok, kettle.....

Where did I say that the victim was not ministered to and her story given ear?

I'll type really slow for you.... so pay attention. I SAID..... I bet you're not giving all the story. Get it? I didn't question whether you or anyone else carried to get it from her or not.

There is Biblical proof that Paul was a murderer.  So, we discount his writings?

No there isn't. Paul considered himself a murderer because he sought after Christian to turn them over to those who persecuted them. He never personally murdered anyone. Get it? He wasn't a murder. Get it?

Question old wise one.... Do you consider our armed service members to be murders? Has our armed service members ever captured someone that later died innocently in custody?

Can you comprehend?????? Are you there????

Here let me ask a little differently this time...

Name one biblical example of any prophet, priest, and etc.... who got caught up in adultery that returned to their position? Name one?

Never said a king was the same as a prophet.  I was simply saying that a man can have a one-time failure morally.  And that one-time failure not indicative of the pattern of his life.    David IS proof of this.

No he is not. David continued to sin. Didn't David sin in numbering Israel? Was that a good thing? How about David's sin in not handling Absalom properly? How many people died because of it?

Did you want me to go on?

Where did I state that a preacher should continue in the ministry if he has had affair?  I stated NO such thing, because I don't believe he should.  The man that I referenced isn't in the ministry any more.  Reading comprehension is not your strong point, huh? 

So you believe the "man" that you spoke about shouldn't have remained in service? Why did you even share the story?

Where did I say David "recovered well"?  He paid the price in spades.  Never said he didn't. 

and your point is????

You hysterical response is not based on ANYTHING I said or was discussing. 

Really? Are you prone to exaggeration?

 

[Frag]

Facts straight?

Ok, kettle.....

Where did I say that the victim was not ministered to and her story given ear?

I'll type really slow for you.... so pay attention. I SAID..... I bet you're not giving all the story. Get it? I didn't question whether you or anyone else carried to get it from her or not.

There is Biblical proof that Paul was a murderer.  So, we discount his writings?

No there isn't. Paul considered himself a murderer because he sought after Christian to turn them over to those who persecuted them. He never personally murdered anyone. Get it? He wasn't a murder. Get it?

Question old wise one.... Do you consider our armed service members to be murders? Has our armed service members ever captured someone that later died innocently in custody?

Can you comprehend?????? Are you there????

Here let me ask a little differently this time...

Name one biblical example of any prophet, priest, and etc.... who got caught up in adultery that returned to their position? Name one?

Never said a king was the same as a prophet.  I was simply saying that a man can have a one-time failure morally.  And that one-time failure not indicative of the pattern of his life.    David IS proof of this.

No he is not. David continued to sin. Didn't David sin in numbering Israel? Was that a good thing? How about David's sin in not handling Absalom properly? How many people died because of it?

Did you want me to go on?

Where did I state that a preacher should continue in the ministry if he has had affair?  I stated NO such thing, because I don't believe he should.  The man that I referenced isn't in the ministry any more.  Reading comprehension is not your strong point, huh? 

So you believe the "man" that you spoke about shouldn't have remained in service? Why did you even share the story?

Where did I say David "recovered well"?  He paid the price in spades.  Never said he didn't. 

and your point is????

You hysterical response is not based on ANYTHING I said or was discussing. 

Really? Are you prone to exaggeration?

Well, I tried.  Knew it was a waste of time.

Now please, get off momma's computer and go color....

 

[Frag]

I am always amazed at the statement..."well he did it, but that is not the kind of person he is"...bologna---that's exactly the kind of person he is, that's why he did it.  That's why him and those like him are disqualified...too bad a certain Florida church can't see that and have trusted the souls of their youth to Braemer!  Pathetic & dangerous!

I want you to understand I am anything but a Schaap defender. 

Explain your reasoning as you examine the life of David.  The affair with Bathsheba was a one-time moral sin, not the public uncovering of a secret life.

Just saying -- don't let your FBC bias push you into drawing unbiblical conclusions.

Good question brother...When I read David and those around him (ie. Nathan) they did not make excuses for their sin...they did not pass it off as the results of circumstances, financial problems of the kingdom, physical problems...they confessed their sin, which showed they had a heart after God and demonstrated true repentance.  But David did sinm, because he was a sinner and that was what he was like...same is true for Schaap (or you or me)...those making excuses and statements that he is no like that are not helping him or speaking the truth.  As far as qualification(if that is what you are referring to)..I do believe biblically (has nothing to do with being FBC) that there are things that would disqualify a person from the pastorate (that would include me and you too)..can God still use that person, you bet...doesn't mean they are qualified to serve as a under-shephard of a church.

Hope this clarifies.

Agree, agree and agree.  I knew great minds thought alike!  Hope you are having a great start to a new year.

 

[T-Bone]

I am always amazed at the statement..."well he did it, but that is not the kind of person he is"...bologna---that's exactly the kind of person he is, that's why he did it.  That's why him and those like him are disqualified...too bad a certain Florida church can't see that and have trusted the souls of their youth to Braemer!  Pathetic & dangerous!

I want you to understand I am anything but a Schaap defender. 

Explain your reasoning as you examine the life of David.  The affair with Bathsheba was a one-time moral sin, not the public uncovering of a secret life.

Just saying -- don't let your FBC bias push you into drawing unbiblical conclusions.

Good question brother...When I read David and those around him (ie. Nathan) they did not make excuses for their sin...they did not pass it off as the results of circumstances, financial problems of the kingdom, physical problems...they confessed their sin, which showed they had a heart after God and demonstrated true repentance.  But David did sinm, because he was a sinner and that was what he was like...same is true for Schaap (or you or me)...those making excuses and statements that he is no like that are not helping him or speaking the truth.  As far as qualification(if that is what you are referring to)..I do believe biblically (has nothing to do with being FBC) that there are things that would disqualify a person from the pastorate (that would include me and you too)..can God still use that person, you bet...doesn't mean they are qualified to serve as a under-shephard of a church.

Hope this clarifies.

Agree, agree and agree.  I knew great minds thought alike!  Hope you are having a great start to a new year.

And you too!  I believe 2013 is going to be interesting for so many reasons!

 

[FreeToBeMe]

They need to show this video during the sentencing hearing.

Preacher gives sermon on The Polished Shaft

 

[christundivided]

Well, I tried.  Knew it was a waste of time.

Now please, get off momma's computer and go color....

Why stop "clucking" so soon???

My mother has been with the Lord for several years now and she never owned a computer. As far as color...... You should be embarrassed. I bet you're not. Its sad that people like you only love those that love them. You're little "click" runs into a little trouble and you get all defensive.

 

[samspade]

It also needs to be pointed out that David's sin with Bathsheba wasn't the first misstep. First, he indulged himself with many wives against God's counsel. Then, he stayed home and enjoyed being comfortable when his duty was to be with his army. Then he looked on his good friend's wife (Uriah was one of David's mighty men who stood with him when Saul was out to kill him). Then he lusted after her. Then he committed adultery with her. That led to murder, and months of living in denial and delusion.

The truth is that people don't go from righteous to gross sin in one step. It's always a series of steps. James 1 makes it clear, we sin because we are led away by our own evil desires. We allow our mind to dwell on it, and that translates in action. No one can blame circumstances or anyone else for their sin. Something David understood very well after living in sin for months surrounding his affair with Bathsheba.

 

[Frag]

It also needs to be pointed out that David's sin with Bathsheba wasn't the first misstep. First, he indulged himself with many wives against God's counsel. Then, he stayed home and enjoyed being comfortable when his duty was to be with his army. Then he looked on his good friend's wife (Uriah was one of David's mighty men who stood with him when Saul was out to kill him). Then he lusted after her. Then he committed adultery with her. That led to murder, and months of living in denial and delusion.

The truth is that people don't go from righteous to gross sin in one step. It's always a series of steps. James 1 makes it clear, we sin because we are led away by our own evil desires. We allow our mind to dwell on it, and that translates in action. No one can blame circumstances or anyone else for their sin. Something David understood very well after living in sin for months surrounding his affair with Bathsheba.

Excellent point.  Well stated.

 

[ALAYMAN]

No there isn't. Paul considered himself a murderer because he sought after Christian to turn them over to those who persecuted them. He never personally murdered anyone. Get it? He wasn't a murder. Get it?

Question old wise one.... Do you consider our armed service members to be murders? Has our armed service members ever captured someone that later died innocently in custody?

lol, as usual, thanks for the laugh, but I feel dumber for just having read that.

Act 7:58  And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul.
Act 7:59  And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.
Act 7:60  And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.
Act 8:1  And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.

 

[christundivided]

No there isn't. Paul considered himself a murderer because he sought after Christian to turn them over to those who persecuted them. He never personally murdered anyone. Get it? He wasn't a murder. Get it?

Question old wise one.... Do you consider our armed service members to be murders? Has our armed service members ever captured someone that later died innocently in custody?

lol, as usual, thanks for the laugh, but I feel dumber for just having read that.

Act 7:58  And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul.
Act 7:59  And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.
Act 7:60  And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.
Act 8:1  And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.

I know you don't like me but you really are dense sometimes. You can't even read or maybe you should learn a little Greek. It might help you a little.

I agreed with Osama Bin Ladin being killed. However, I wasn't lucky enough to be the one to have pulled the trigger. I didn't kill him. Now I wished I would have gotten the chance.

To call Paul a murderer is just plain silly. Are you saving Paul was just like Cain? Do you even what the word murder means?

Now I would love to read your response. Maybe you should stop believing everything you hear and actually study every once on a while

 

[Sherryh]

I don't know anything about not liking each other. But it's not worth it .........it eats you up and you become the loser

 

[Biker]

Paul committed murder (overt/covert) before salvation. A prior life.

David committed grave sins after salvation hence why God bestowed horrific consequences upon David for his sins


Paul, being a Sinner, committed sins linked onlyto Sinners. Never to Saints. Sinners character is labeled according to the sins they commit- Murderer, Drunkard, Fornicator etc..it is what they are.

David, being a Saint, committed sins linked only to Sinners. Never to Saints. Very confusing since Saints are linked to the fruits of the Spirit- Joy, Peace, Love. It is what characterizes their life.

Paul acted as a Pastor to the churches. He is who we are to compare Pastors with

David NEVER acted in a Pastoral capacity.

It is a misapplication of scripture to compare sexually deviant Pastors to David

 

[Biker]

As expected of Saints, David repented when his sin was brought fourth.

His  good looks, his "free style" dancing in the street donning a loin cloth while worshiping.... my guess is he is far from a good candidate to act in a Pastoral Capacity.

Yet when the flock is victimized by sexually deviant Pastors, his name is always at the forefront to justify something, not sure what. All While Paul, a Pastor to the churches, is ignored.

 

[Ransom]

His  good looks, his "free style" dancing in the street donning a loin cloth while worshiping....

I don't know where people get this idea. An ephod isn't a loincloth. It's more of a linen tunic that hung over the shoulders, part of the Levites' priestly vestments.

Even so, it wasn't all he was wearing: "David was clothed with a robe of fine linen, as also were all the Levites who were carrying the ark, and the singers and Chenaniah the leader of the music of the singers. And David wore a linen ephod" (1 Chron. 15:27).  Michal despised him, not because he was dressed indecently, but because she thought he was behaving too vulgarly for the King of Israel.

Anyway, the reason David was unqualified to act in a pastoral capacity was not his character, but because he was a Judahite, not a Levite.

 

[ALAYMAN]

I agreed with Osama Bin Ladin being killed. However, I wasn't lucky enough to be the one to have pulled the trigger. I didn't kill him. Now I wished I would have gotten the chance.

To call Paul a murderer is just plain silly. Are you saving Paul was just like Cain? Do you even what the word murder means?

Now I would love to read your response. Maybe you should stop believing everything you hear and actually study every once on a while

Paul was "consenting" to their deaths.  Do you know what that means, in the Greek of course?