Hacker Yuppies

[BALAAM]

I am just curious but does this thread remind anyone else of Kenny Schaap?

 

[Fresh Air]

I am just curious but does this thread remind anyone else of Kenny Schaap?

Ding, ding, ding, we have a winner...

 

[Bravo]

I was talking to a friend yesterday and he made a comment that make me stop and think.  He knows many HAC grads from the 70s, 80s, and 90s that are in the ministry.  His comment had to do with the HAC students and grads from the 2000s (The Schaap years).  He claims that there is a noticeable difference in the two groups.

The gentleman had a close relative who was recently married.  The wide majority of those in the wedding party were HAC students.  He noticed a "cockiness" and arrogance among these young people.  He noticed a change in the standard level.  He said their behavior and actions were quite different than other groups that he had been around through the years.

This gentleman also has two married ex-HAC couples from the 2000s that are involved in the church he attends.  He commented on their lack of commitment and hard work to the ministries in which they are involved.

This is something that I had not considered.  Now, I understand that he is basing his thoughts on a sampling size of 10 - 15 students.  We all know that all students are not this way.  I asked him if he thought the students of the 2000s were "Hacker Yuppies".  He said, "That's it!!"

Hacker Nation, what are your thoughts?  What kind of "product" did Schaap's regime produce?  Do you know some positive student stories?

Raider, here is my take on this discussion . I have heard more than a few people on these forums say that college did not make them, their home life/church was their major influence. Here is where I am going with this,... College is four years, 8 if you're a good HACker.

My premise is simply this, the graduates from the Schaap years were raised and or Pastored by those from the Hyles years. They are what our style of IFB has bred. I don't mean to cast or remove the blame anymore than is necessary but it is strongly my feeling on the matter.

I'd like to hear anyone else's take on this.

 

[prophet]

I was talking to a friend yesterday and he made a comment that make me stop and think.  He knows many HAC grads from the 70s, 80s, and 90s that are in the ministry.  His comment had to do with the HAC students and grads from the 2000s (The Schaap years).  He claims that there is a noticeable difference in the two groups.

The gentleman had a close relative who was recently married.  The wide majority of those in the wedding party were HAC students.  He noticed a "cockiness" and arrogance among these young people.  He noticed a change in the standard level.  He said their behavior and actions were quite different than other groups that he had been around through the years.

This gentleman also has two married ex-HAC couples from the 2000s that are involved in the church he attends.  He commented on their lack of commitment and hard work to the ministries in which they are involved.

This is something that I had not considered.  Now, I understand that he is basing his thoughts on a sampling size of 10 - 15 students.  We all know that all students are not this way.  I asked him if he thought the students of the 2000s were "Hacker Yuppies".  He said, "That's it!!"

Hacker Nation, what are your thoughts?  What kind of "product" did Schaap's regime produce?  Do you know some positive student stories?

Raider, here is my take on this discussion . I have heard more than a few people on these forums say that college did not make them, their home life/church was their major influence. Here is where I am going with this,... College is four years, 8 if you're a good HACker.

My premise is simply this, the graduates from the Schaap years were raised and or Pastored by those from the Hyles years. They are what our style of IFB has bred. I don't mean to cast or remove the blame anymore than is necessary but it is strongly my feeling on the matter.

I'd like to hear anyone else's take on this.

You'd like to hear anyone's but mine.

 

[Bravo]

Prophet, not sure why you'd say that? Is it because we do not agree? That's fine. It wouldn't be the first, probably not the last lol. When I worked FT in the ministry with someone from the Hyles years I remember a comment being made, "Our kids limp out of here on their way to Bible college, with everyone we taught them I thought they would charge out of here,.."

I strongly feel today's kids (2000 and on) are a product of the previous generation.

 

[patriotic]

I am just curious but does this thread remind anyone else of Kenny Schaap?

Slight highjack - Does anyone know what's up with Team Faithway? I tried to show my hrother the website last week, and the ticker read 0 -0-0......until first service.

 

[brainisengaged]

There was an update that Bob Hooker shared on his FB page...Ken basically said they are now a church family at Faithway, doing great, so he doesn't feel the need to update the site. He encouraged anyone interested to check out his or Jerod's FB pages.

 

[RAIDER]

Raider, here is my take on this discussion . I have heard more than a few people on these forums say that college did not make them, their home life/church was their major influence. Here is where I am going with this,... College is four years, 8 if you're a good HACker.

My premise is simply this, the graduates from the Schaap years were raised and or Pastored by those from the Hyles years. They are what our style of IFB has bred. I don't mean to cast or remove the blame anymore than is necessary but it is strongly my feeling on the matter.

I'd like to hear anyone else's take on this.

Bravo, I am not discounting the home and family.  This is the very foundation of an individual.  A young person that graduates from high school may have a great foundation, but they are also entering some very formative years of their adult life.  They are going away from home to live for four years with people whom they do not know.  They will be taught by teachers whom they do not know.  They will be attending a church pastored by someone who does not know them.  While they have their foundation, these years will also form their life.

If they like the teachers and preachers, they are going to be influenced by them.

 

[kaba]

When Our first child went to look for a college we wanted a Christian college, and one with standards we lived by, so she went to Clearwater Christian. When the second one was looking we wanted a Christian one, but had to have sports, she went to a presbyterian one and then graduated from a non-demoninational college, When the son went we found a Southern Baptist College out of state, that was Division II (went for sports) The youngest is now looking.......we are checking out all instate, universities!

Not 5 but 10 years ago, they would have gone to an IFB College. Just have been so disappointed in the hypocrisy that comes from IFB colleges, and lack of good education I just dont want to put my children threw it.

In other words, you have become stinkin' (I love that word!) liberals!!

In some peoples eyes..yes!!!

 

[Bruh]

I was talking to a friend yesterday and he made a comment that make me stop and think.  He knows many HAC grads from the 70s, 80s, and 90s that are in the ministry.  His comment had to do with the HAC students and grads from the 2000s (The Schaap years).  He claims that there is a noticeable difference in the two groups.

The gentleman had a close relative who was recently married.  The wide majority of those in the wedding party were HAC students.  He noticed a "cockiness" and arrogance among these young people.  He noticed a change in the standard level.  He said their behavior and actions were quite different than other groups that he had been around through the years.

This gentleman also has two married ex-HAC couples from the 2000s that are involved in the church he attends.  He commented on their lack of commitment and hard work to the ministries in which they are involved.

This is something that I had not considered.  Now, I understand that he is basing his thoughts on a sampling size of 10 - 15 students.  We all know that all students are not this way.  I asked him if he thought the students of the 2000s were "Hacker Yuppies".  He said, "That's it!!"

Hacker Nation, what are your thoughts?  What kind of "product" did Schaap's regime produce?  Do you know some positive student stories?

Raider, here is my take on this discussion . I have heard more than a few people on these forums say that college did not make them, their home life/church was their major influence. Here is where I am going with this,... College is four years, 8 if you're a good HACker.

My premise is simply this, the graduates from the Schaap years were raised and or Pastored by those from the Hyles years. They are what our style of IFB has bred. I don't mean to cast or remove the blame anymore than is necessary but it is strongly my feeling on the matter.

I'd like to hear anyone else's take on this.

Raider, this is what I was trying to say when I said, "the last 30 years raised what we have now". 

JS, spent how many years at FBCH/HAC?  The church members and deacons allowed what was going on when he was preaching/money or any thing else that was not right with him as their Pastor. 

And I can't help but believe that is what Jack Hyles produced.

They also taught their children to take hook line and sinker what the "man of God" says without question.  Because, this is what Hyles taught them. 

And for the record, I know many Men of God that are not preacher or Pastors. 

 

[Bruh]

I agree with the premise of the OP. Bro. Hyles was proud, especially in the latter years, though he knew how to disguise it. Jack Schaap was beyond proud; he was arrogant. And he bred that into the college during his years in charge. I'm highly skeptical of anybody who went through that place during his tenure, especially the latter half.

Additionally, Jack Schaap was a much weaker fundamentalist than Bro. Hyles. He embraced much more than new technology. He was clearly moving in the direction of embracing much of the contemporary crowd's methods. That shows in his graduates as well. And I simply cannot abide that junk. It is one of the reasons I gave up on HAC years before JS went publicly haywire.

I'm not saying the HAC grads under Hyles were good and those are Schaap were bad. Such a broad brush isn't accurate. But I do find myself having much more in common and feeling much more comfortable with those who were there under Bro. Hyles, from any of those decades, than I do with those from the decade under Schaap.

Would you throw Paul Chapel in this as well?

 

[RAIDER]

I was talking to a friend yesterday and he made a comment that make me stop and think.  He knows many HAC grads from the 70s, 80s, and 90s that are in the ministry.  His comment had to do with the HAC students and grads from the 2000s (The Schaap years).  He claims that there is a noticeable difference in the two groups.

The gentleman had a close relative who was recently married.  The wide majority of those in the wedding party were HAC students.  He noticed a "cockiness" and arrogance among these young people.  He noticed a change in the standard level.  He said their behavior and actions were quite different than other groups that he had been around through the years.

This gentleman also has two married ex-HAC couples from the 2000s that are involved in the church he attends.  He commented on their lack of commitment and hard work to the ministries in which they are involved.

This is something that I had not considered.  Now, I understand that he is basing his thoughts on a sampling size of 10 - 15 students.  We all know that all students are not this way.  I asked him if he thought the students of the 2000s were "Hacker Yuppies".  He said, "That's it!!"

Hacker Nation, what are your thoughts?  What kind of "product" did Schaap's regime produce?  Do you know some positive student stories?

Raider, here is my take on this discussion . I have heard more than a few people on these forums say that college did not make them, their home life/church was their major influence. Here is where I am going with this,... College is four years, 8 if you're a good HACker.

My premise is simply this, the graduates from the Schaap years were raised and or Pastored by those from the Hyles years. They are what our style of IFB has bred. I don't mean to cast or remove the blame anymore than is necessary but it is strongly my feeling on the matter.

I'd like to hear anyone else's take on this.

Raider, this is what I was trying to say when I said, "the last 30 years raised what we have now". 

JS, spent how many years at FBCH/HAC?  The church members and deacons allowed what was going on when he was preaching/money or any thing else that was not right with him as their Pastor. 

And I can't help but believe that is what Jack Hyles produced.

They also taught their children to take hook line and sinker what the "man of God" says without question.  Because, this is what Hyles taught them. 

And for the record, I know many Men of God that are not preacher or Pastors. 

Using your reasoning, HAC and Dr. Hyles did not form the way Schaap was, his parents did.

 

[Bruh]

I was talking to a friend yesterday and he made a comment that make me stop and think.  He knows many HAC grads from the 70s, 80s, and 90s that are in the ministry.  His comment had to do with the HAC students and grads from the 2000s (The Schaap years).  He claims that there is a noticeable difference in the two groups.

The gentleman had a close relative who was recently married.  The wide majority of those in the wedding party were HAC students.  He noticed a "cockiness" and arrogance among these young people.  He noticed a change in the standard level.  He said their behavior and actions were quite different than other groups that he had been around through the years.

This gentleman also has two married ex-HAC couples from the 2000s that are involved in the church he attends.  He commented on their lack of commitment and hard work to the ministries in which they are involved.

This is something that I had not considered.  Now, I understand that he is basing his thoughts on a sampling size of 10 - 15 students.  We all know that all students are not this way.  I asked him if he thought the students of the 2000s were "Hacker Yuppies".  He said, "That's it!!"

Hacker Nation, what are your thoughts?  What kind of "product" did Schaap's regime produce?  Do you know some positive student stories?

Raider, here is my take on this discussion . I have heard more than a few people on these forums say that college did not make them, their home life/church was their major influence. Here is where I am going with this,... College is four years, 8 if you're a good HACker.

My premise is simply this, the graduates from the Schaap years were raised and or Pastored by those from the Hyles years. They are what our style of IFB has bred. I don't mean to cast or remove the blame anymore than is necessary but it is strongly my feeling on the matter.

I'd like to hear anyone else's take on this.

Raider, this is what I was trying to say when I said, "the last 30 years raised what we have now". 

JS, spent how many years at FBCH/HAC?  The church members and deacons allowed what was going on when he was preaching/money or any thing else that was not right with him as their Pastor. 

And I can't help but believe that is what Jack Hyles produced.

They also taught their children to take hook line and sinker what the "man of God" says without question.  Because, this is what Hyles taught them. 

And for the record, I know many Men of God that are not preacher or Pastors. 

Using your reasoning, HAC and Dr. Hyles did not form the way Schaap was, his parents did.

I can't help but believe that JS parents taught him to worship the "Man of God".  Again, the home. 

My wife was taught to question in her home.  We met in Bible College (not a Hyles college) and when we began to date and talked she would say things like "where is that in the bible" WHY, because she was taught that in her home growing up.  Trust me she was raised IFB but not the Hyles side.

Again before she went to college her foundation was laid.  Send a kid to bible college that grew up in the Hyles side of the IFB and taught do not question the Man of God and there you have it. 

Hope this is not confusing, I am having trouble communicating my thoughts to computer. 

 

[RAIDER]

I was talking to a friend yesterday and he made a comment that make me stop and think.  He knows many HAC grads from the 70s, 80s, and 90s that are in the ministry.  His comment had to do with the HAC students and grads from the 2000s (The Schaap years).  He claims that there is a noticeable difference in the two groups.

The gentleman had a close relative who was recently married.  The wide majority of those in the wedding party were HAC students.  He noticed a "cockiness" and arrogance among these young people.  He noticed a change in the standard level.  He said their behavior and actions were quite different than other groups that he had been around through the years.

This gentleman also has two married ex-HAC couples from the 2000s that are involved in the church he attends.  He commented on their lack of commitment and hard work to the ministries in which they are involved.

This is something that I had not considered.  Now, I understand that he is basing his thoughts on a sampling size of 10 - 15 students.  We all know that all students are not this way.  I asked him if he thought the students of the 2000s were "Hacker Yuppies".  He said, "That's it!!"

Hacker Nation, what are your thoughts?  What kind of "product" did Schaap's regime produce?  Do you know some positive student stories?

Raider, here is my take on this discussion . I have heard more than a few people on these forums say that college did not make them, their home life/church was their major influence. Here is where I am going with this,... College is four years, 8 if you're a good HACker.

My premise is simply this, the graduates from the Schaap years were raised and or Pastored by those from the Hyles years. They are what our style of IFB has bred. I don't mean to cast or remove the blame anymore than is necessary but it is strongly my feeling on the matter.

I'd like to hear anyone else's take on this.

Raider, this is what I was trying to say when I said, "the last 30 years raised what we have now". 

JS, spent how many years at FBCH/HAC?  The church members and deacons allowed what was going on when he was preaching/money or any thing else that was not right with him as their Pastor. 

And I can't help but believe that is what Jack Hyles produced.

They also taught their children to take hook line and sinker what the "man of God" says without question.  Because, this is what Hyles taught them. 

And for the record, I know many Men of God that are not preacher or Pastors. 

Using your reasoning, HAC and Dr. Hyles did not form the way Schaap was, his parents did.

I can't help but believe that JS parents taught him to worship the "Man of God".  Again, the home. 

My wife was taught to question in her home.  We met in Bible College (not a Hyles college) and when we began to date and talked she would say things like "where is that in the bible" WHY, because she was taught that in her home growing up.  Trust me she was raised IFB but not the Hyles side.

Again before she went to college her foundation was laid.  Send a kid to bible college that grew up in the Hyles side of the IFB and taught do not question the Man of God and there you have it. 

Hope this is not confusing, I am having trouble communicating my thoughts to computer.

I'm following you.  The only difference between our views is that I believe that 4 years at a college does more to form who you are than what you believe it does.

 

[Bruh]

I was talking to a friend yesterday and he made a comment that make me stop and think.  He knows many HAC grads from the 70s, 80s, and 90s that are in the ministry.  His comment had to do with the HAC students and grads from the 2000s (The Schaap years).  He claims that there is a noticeable difference in the two groups.

The gentleman had a close relative who was recently married.  The wide majority of those in the wedding party were HAC students.  He noticed a "cockiness" and arrogance among these young people.  He noticed a change in the standard level.  He said their behavior and actions were quite different than other groups that he had been around through the years.

This gentleman also has two married ex-HAC couples from the 2000s that are involved in the church he attends.  He commented on their lack of commitment and hard work to the ministries in which they are involved.

This is something that I had not considered.  Now, I understand that he is basing his thoughts on a sampling size of 10 - 15 students.  We all know that all students are not this way.  I asked him if he thought the students of the 2000s were "Hacker Yuppies".  He said, "That's it!!"

Hacker Nation, what are your thoughts?  What kind of "product" did Schaap's regime produce?  Do you know some positive student stories?

Raider, here is my take on this discussion . I have heard more than a few people on these forums say that college did not make them, their home life/church was their major influence. Here is where I am going with this,... College is four years, 8 if you're a good HACker.

My premise is simply this, the graduates from the Schaap years were raised and or Pastored by those from the Hyles years. They are what our style of IFB has bred. I don't mean to cast or remove the blame anymore than is necessary but it is strongly my feeling on the matter.

I'd like to hear anyone else's take on this.

Raider, this is what I was trying to say when I said, "the last 30 years raised what we have now". 

JS, spent how many years at FBCH/HAC?  The church members and deacons allowed what was going on when he was preaching/money or any thing else that was not right with him as their Pastor. 

And I can't help but believe that is what Jack Hyles produced.

They also taught their children to take hook line and sinker what the "man of God" says without question.  Because, this is what Hyles taught them. 

And for the record, I know many Men of God that are not preacher or Pastors. 

Using your reasoning, HAC and Dr. Hyles did not form the way Schaap was, his parents did.

I can't help but believe that JS parents taught him to worship the "Man of God".  Again, the home. 

My wife was taught to question in her home.  We met in Bible College (not a Hyles college) and when we began to date and talked she would say things like "where is that in the bible" WHY, because she was taught that in her home growing up.  Trust me she was raised IFB but not the Hyles side.

Again before she went to college her foundation was laid.  Send a kid to bible college that grew up in the Hyles side of the IFB and taught do not question the Man of God and there you have it. 

Hope this is not confusing, I am having trouble communicating my thoughts to computer.

I'm following you.  The only difference between our views is that I believe that 4 years at a college does more to form who you are than what you believe it does.

And I see yours as well. 

This si why we are already talking to our children about continuing to live at home while attending any college.  The truth is I hope they want to go to a Community College or a University near by. 
Bible College is not pushed at our church so this is a plus for sure, will make it easier.

Of course, at the end of the day, its really where the Lord wants them that matters most. 

 

[Fresh Air]

I agree with the premise of the OP. Bro. Hyles was proud, especially in the latter years, though he knew how to disguise it. Jack Schaap was beyond proud; he was arrogant. And he bred that into the college during his years in charge. I'm highly skeptical of anybody who went through that place during his tenure, especially the latter half.

Additionally, Jack Schaap was a much weaker fundamentalist than Bro. Hyles. He embraced much more than new technology. He was clearly moving in the direction of embracing much of the contemporary crowd's methods. That shows in his graduates as well. And I simply cannot abide that junk. It is one of the reasons I gave up on HAC years before JS went publicly haywire.

I'm not saying the HAC grads under Hyles were good and those are Schaap were bad. Such a broad brush isn't accurate. But I do find myself having much more in common and feeling much more comfortable with those who were there under Bro. Hyles, from any of those decades, than I do with those from the decade under Schaap.

Would you throw Paul Chapel in this as well?

To a much more limited extent, yes. I'm not a Chappelite, though I am much more willing to be receptive of him still than I was of JS the last few years.

 

[Bravo]

Using your reasoning, HAC and Dr. Hyles did not form the way Schaap was, his parents did.

Using this reasoning he might just be right.
Proverbs 22:6 KJV
[6] Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

Bruh, I think you and I see this in a similar fashion,... We are reaping what we have sowed.

 

[Bruh]

Using your reasoning, HAC and Dr. Hyles did not form the way Schaap was, his parents did.

Using this reasoning he might just be right.
Proverbs 22:6 KJV
[6] Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

Bruh, I think you and I see this in a similar fashion,... We are reaping what we have sowed.

I am convinced more and more that it boils down to the home.

Take two guys that go to the same college start at the same time and 4 years later you have two different people with two different philosophies.  Why, because the homes they came out of.  They were taught to think and come to conclusions differently.  Even if they come to the same conclusion they may take different roads to get there. 

Take a guy that grew up in a home that grew up in a church that was 100% Hyles mentality buuuuut in the home they were taught to RESPECT the Pastor not WORSHIP the Pastor and that Dad was as much a man of God as the Pastor and Dad had the final say so in the home not the Pastor.  Send that kid to HAC during JS tenure and I believe that you will have a different young man then what the OP is suggesting. 

 

[Bravo]

Using your reasoning, HAC and Dr. Hyles did not form the way Schaap was, his parents did.

Using this reasoning he might just be right.
Proverbs 22:6 KJV
[6] Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

Bruh, I think you and I see this in a similar fashion,... We are reaping what we have sowed.

I am convinced more and more that it boils down to the home.

Take two guys that go to the same college start at the same time and 4 years later you have two different people with two different philosophies.  Why, because the homes they came out of.  They were taught to think and come to conclusions differently.  Even if they come to the same conclusion they may take different roads to get there. 

Take a guy that grew up in a home that grew up in a church that was 100% Hyles mentality buuuuut in the home they were taught to RESPECT the Pastor not WORSHIP the Pastor and that Dad was as much a man of God as the Pastor and Dad had the final say so in the home not the Pastor.  Send that kid to HAC during JS tenure and I believe that you will have a different young man then what the OP is suggesting.

Understood,... And agreed.