Five Thousand Saved

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Acts 4:4  "But many who heard the message believed; so the number of men who believed grew to about five thousand."

Last night we had a visitor share a message. He said that we don't have repeat performances of Acts 4:4 because the congregation of the Church isn't living/or right in general with God. It is out fault that we don't see 5,000 saved in America. He seemed to link it with being filled with the spirit and being like minded as a people.

He said other things - but this comment really frustrated me.

Do you agree with his statement?

I have narrowed my frustration down to a single thought: Is each Child of God truly responsible for the salvation of others? This leads to another questions: Was Acts 4:4 a miracle of God or man? If God needs man then why would he trust someone such as myself?
 
I believe we are responsible to share the salvation message to others. We cannot force someone to get saved nor can we get saved for them. So if we share salvation with them they have a decision to make.

Every salvation is a miracle from God since He is the only one that can save a person.

The Bible does state I believe in Matthew that if we do not tell of the gospel that the rocks would cry out. So no God does not need man but he choses to use us to spread His Salvation message to others.

I think the big reason we dont see the types of numbers as seen in Acts 4 would be because of the wickedness that has overrun our world. Because God does not force himself on people it is hard for their hearts to be touched and for them to realize that they are sinners and need a Savior.
 
Total nonsense. As the power of the apostles waned they saw smaller and smaller crowds receiving the Gospel. God gifted them with such power for a short time. A time in-which it was essential for the Gospel to be established among humanity. There is very little doubt many of the five thousand reacted to seeing the miracles and power the apostles on display in the early church. That will not happen again and there is no reason to blame a lack of "spirituality" among the current church for smaller multitudes of people receiving the Gospel.

Can we make a difference. Sure..... but using such an example is rather silly.
 
christundivided said:
Total nonsense. As the power of the apostles waned they saw smaller and smaller crowds receiving the Gospel. God gifted them with such power for a short time. A time in-which it was essential for the Gospel to be established among humanity. There is very little doubt many of the five thousand reacted to seeing the miracles and power the apostles on display in the early church. That will not happen again and there is no reason to blame a lack of "spirituality" among the current church for smaller multitudes of people receiving the Gospel.

Can we make a difference. Sure..... but using such an example is rather silly.

I agree with you.

I have even heard men say that the tears that are wipe away in heaven are tears for all the souls we never won.

Around us are many unsaved people - how responsible are we?
 
Just an observation:  I know we are talking about the 5000, but when 3000 were saved in Acts 2, God used 120 Christians who had spent 10 days praying.  They were filled with God's Spirit and then engaged in both personal witnessing and public preaching.  The result was a great harvest of souls. 

Divide the 3000 by 120 and you get.............. __________ people per Spirit filled Christian.  Interesting.  Not as many per as you might think.

Acts two provides us the record of this great event, as well as the details of what led up to it.  A worthy study and not to be dismissed.
 
Timothy said:
It is out fault that we don't see 5,000 saved in America.

Here's my beef with the mentality of many well meaning Christians these days: They are mentally programmed to equate the work of God with "big days." Now I'm pretty sure we have seen 5,000 saved in one day in America...many times. The fact that it didn't happen all in one particular church's "big day" doesn't discount that fact that there were 5,000 souls added to the body of Christ.

The same God who brought in a harvest of 5,000 in Acts is the same God who spent hours to win one Samaritan woman at a well. Was Jesus not spiritual enough to get more numbers that day?

Don't get me wrong. I am all for promotions and "big days" that reach many people for the Lord. I just don't equate God's blessing and work with "big days." God works just as effectively on the regular days.
 
Boomer said:
Timothy said:
It is out fault that we don't see 5,000 saved in America.

Here's my beef with the mentality of many well meaning Christians these days: They are mentally programmed to equate the work of God with "big days." Now I'm pretty sure we have seen 5,000 saved in one day in America...many times. The fact that it didn't happen all in one particular church's "big day" doesn't discount that fact that there were 5,000 souls added to the body of Christ.

The same God who brought in a harvest of 5,000 in Acts is the same God who spent hours to win one Samaritan woman at a well. Was Jesus not spiritual enough to get more numbers that day?

Don't get me wrong. I am all for promotions and "big days" that reach many people for the Lord. I just don't equate God's blessing and work with "big days." God works just as effectively on the regular days.


Great post!
 
Timothy said:
How responsible are we for the unsaved?

Lets see God did his part. so He isn't responsible. the unsaved are blinded and void of the  truth, we have the truth and the command to go tell them the truth. so I would say the responsibility lies on the the Believer to go reach the lost!. 
 
OZZY said:
Timothy said:
How responsible are we for the unsaved?

Lets see God did his part. so He isn't responsible. the unsaved are blinded and void of the  truth, we have the truth and the command to go tell them the truth. so I would say the responsibility lies on the the Believer to go reach the lost!.

So, any believer that fails to do this is ________________________. (fill in the blank)

I find it frightening that God (who is willing that none should perish) depends on the feeble people of earth to reach the lost.

I come from a background that teaches 'reaching the lost' - but lately it hits me how vital the need is to go and preach since my religion teaches we are the hands and feet. People die and go to hell because of us (sure, some reject the gospel, but we could share more and live better to give them a Bible to read) .... wow.

Makes me wonder why I still sit on my butt and not share more. Why waste a moment on anything earthly.

.... makes me wonder about my whole outlook on this whole thing ...

 
Timothy said:
OZZY said:
Timothy said:
How responsible are we for the unsaved?

Lets see God did his part. so He isn't responsible. the unsaved are blinded and void of the  truth, we have the truth and the command to go tell them the truth. so I would say the responsibility lies on the the Believer to go reach the lost!.

So, any believer that fails to do this is ________________________. (fill in the blank)

I find it frightening that God (who is willing that none should perish) depends on the feeble people of earth to reach the lost.

I come from a background that teaches 'reaching the lost' - but lately it hits me how vital the need is to go and preach since my religion teaches we are the hands and feet. People die and go to hell because of us (sure, some reject the gospel, but we could share more and live better to give them a Bible to read) .... wow.

Makes me wonder why I still sit on my butt and not share more. Why waste a moment on anything earthly.

.... makes me wonder about my whole outlook on this whole thing ...

A.W. Pink on the sovereignty of God:

Who is regulating affairs on this earth today-God, or the Devil? What impression is made upon the minds of those men of the world who, occasionally, attend a Gospel service? What are the conceptions formed by those who hear even those preachers who are counted as "orthodox?" Is it not that a disappointed God is the One whom Christians believe in? From what is heard from the average evangelist today, is not any serious hearer obliged to conclude that he professes to represent a God who is filled with benevolent intentions, yet unable to carry them out; that He is earnestly desirous of blessing men, but that they will not let Him? Then, must not the average hearer draw the inference that the Devil has gained the upper hand, and that God is to be pitied rather than blamed?

Or better still...

How different is the God of the Bible from the God of modern Christendom! The conception of Deity which prevails most widely today, even among those who profess to give heed to the Scriptures, is a miserable caricature, a blasphemous travesty of the Truth. The God of the twentieth century is a helpless, effeminate being who commands the respect of no really thoughtful man. The God of the popular mind is the creation of maudlin sentimentality. The God of many a present-day pulpit is an object of pity rather than of awe-inspiring reverence. To say that God the Father has purposed the salvation of all mankind, that God the Son died with the express intention of saving the whole human race, and that God the Holy Spirit is now seeking to win the world to Christ; when, as a matter of common observation, it is apparent that the great majority of our fellowmen are dying in sin, and passing into a hopeless eternity; is to say that God the Father is disappointed, that God the Son is dissatisfied, and that God the Holy Spirit is defeated. We have stated the issue baldly, but there is no escaping the conclusion. To argue that God is "trying His best" to save all mankind, but that the majority of men will not let Him save them, is to insist that the will of the Creator is impotent, and that the will of the creature is omnipotent. To throw the blame, as many do, upon the Devil, does not remove the difficulty, for if Satan is defeating the purpose of God, then, Satan is Almighty and God is no longer the Supreme Being.

To declare that the Creator's original plan has been frustrated by sin, is to dethrone God. To suggest that God was taken by surprise in Eden and that He is now attempting to remedy an unforeseen calamity, is to degrade the Most High to the level of a finite, erring mortal. To argue that man is a free moral agent and the determiner of his own destiny, and that therefore he has the power to checkmate his Maker, is to strip God of the attribute of Omnipotence. To say that the creature has burst the bounds assigned by his Creator, and that God is now practically a helpless Spectator before the sin and suffering entailed by Adam's fall, is to repudiate the express declaration of Holy Writ, namely, "Surely the wrath of man shall praise Thee: the remainder of wrath shalt Thou restrain" (Psa. 76:10). In a word, to deny the Sovereignty of God is to enter upon a path which, if followed to its logical terminus, is to arrive at blank atheism.
 
[quote author=Castor Muscular]Or better still...

How different is the God of the Bible from the God of modern Christendom! The conception of Deity which prevails most widely today, even among those who profess to give heed to the Scriptures, is a miserable caricature, a blasphemous travesty of the Truth. The God of the twentieth century is a helpless, effeminate being who commands the respect of no really thoughtful man. The God of the popular mind is the creation of maudlin sentimentality. The God of many a present-day pulpit is an object of pity rather than of awe-inspiring reverence. To say that God the Father has purposed the salvation of all mankind, that God the Son died with the express intention of saving the whole human race, and that God the Holy Spirit is now seeking to win the world to Christ; when, as a matter of common observation, it is apparent that the great majority of our fellowmen are dying in sin, and passing into a hopeless eternity; is to say that God the Father is disappointed, that God the Son is dissatisfied, and that God the Holy Spirit is defeated. We have stated the issue baldly, but there is no escaping the conclusion. To argue that God is "trying His best" to save all mankind, but that the majority of men will not let Him save them, is to insist that the will of the Creator is impotent, and that the will of the creature is omnipotent. To throw the blame, as many do, upon the Devil, does not remove the difficulty, for if Satan is defeating the purpose of God, then, Satan is Almighty and God is no longer the Supreme Being.

To declare that the Creator's original plan has been frustrated by sin, is to dethrone God. To suggest that God was taken by surprise in Eden and that He is now attempting to remedy an unforeseen calamity, is to degrade the Most High to the level of a finite, erring mortal. To argue that man is a free moral agent and the determiner of his own destiny, and that therefore he has the power to checkmate his Maker, is to strip God of the attribute of Omnipotence. To say that the creature has burst the bounds assigned by his Creator, and that God is now practically a helpless Spectator before the sin and suffering entailed by Adam's fall, is to repudiate the express declaration of Holy Writ, namely, "Surely the wrath of man shall praise Thee: the remainder of wrath shalt Thou restrain" (Psa. 76:10). In a word, to deny the Sovereignty of God is to enter upon a path which, if followed to its logical terminus, is to arrive at blank atheism.
[/quote]

Couple this with the functionally deistic God that is so prevalent in American Christianity...
 
The answer is 25.  120 Christians reached an average of 25 people to accomplish the 3000 miracle. 

Problem isn't God -- it is our unwillingness to duplicate the passion and purity of the early church.
 
Frag said:
The answer is 25.  120 Christians reached an average of 25 people to accomplish the 3000 miracle. 

Problem isn't God -- it is our unwillingness to duplicate the passion and purity of the early church.

Is this in the Bible?
 
Timothy said:
Frag said:
The answer is 25.  120 Christians reached an average of 25 people to accomplish the 3000 miracle. 

Problem isn't God -- it is our unwillingness to duplicate the passion and purity of the early church.

Is this in the Bible?



Not this one it ain't


15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is [but] the third hour of the day.
16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
21 And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:
26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.
29 Men [and] brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
37 Now when they heard [this], they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men [and] brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, [even] as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added [unto them] about three thousand souls.
 
Timothy said:
How responsible are we for the unsaved?

Not at all.  We are responsible to tell others.  We have zero responsibility for the outcome of the testimony that we give.  God and God alone can save and bring a spiritual dead man to spiritual life.
 
Timothy said:
OZZY said:
Timothy said:
How responsible are we for the unsaved?

Lets see God did his part. so He isn't responsible. the unsaved are blinded and void of the  truth, we have the truth and the command to go tell them the truth. so I would say the responsibility lies on the the Believer to go reach the lost!.

So, any believer that fails to do this is ________________________. (fill in the blank)

I find it frightening that God (who is willing that none should perish) depends on the feeble people of earth to reach the lost.

I come from a background that teaches 'reaching the lost' - but lately it hits me how vital the need is to go and preach since my religion teaches we are the hands and feet. People die and go to hell because of us (sure, some reject the gospel, but we could share more and live better to give them a Bible to read) .... wow.

Makes me wonder why I still sit on my butt and not share more. Why waste a moment on anything earthly.

.... makes me wonder about my whole outlook on this whole thing ...

Impossible.  But whatever floats your boat.  Salvation is 100% God 0% man. 
 
Timothy said:
Frag said:
The answer is 25.  120 Christians reached an average of 25 people to accomplish the 3000 miracle. 

Problem isn't God -- it is our unwillingness to duplicate the passion and purity of the early church.

Is this in the Bible?

Nope, might be in the funny paper.  Our passion=salvation?  Only from Frag. 
 
OZZY said:
Timothy said:
Frag said:
The answer is 25.  120 Christians reached an average of 25 people to accomplish the 3000 miracle. 

Problem isn't God -- it is our unwillingness to duplicate the passion and purity of the early church.

Is this in the Bible?



Not this one it ain't


15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is [but] the third hour of the day.
16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
21 And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:
26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.
29 Men [and] brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
37 Now when they heard [this], they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men [and] brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, [even] as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added [unto them] about three thousand souls.

You might want to read the whole chapter:

Acts 1:12-15 (KJV)
12  Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.
13  And when they were come in, they went up into an upper room, where abode both Peter, and James, and John, and Andrew, Philip, and Thomas, Bartholomew, and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon Zelotes, and Judas the brother of James.
14  These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren.
15  And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,)



Acts 2:1-11 (KJV)
1  And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
2  And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
3  And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
5  And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
7  And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
8  And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
9  Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
10  Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
11  Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
 
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