FBCH/Pastor Wilkerson/KJV

[Tarheel Baptist]

Recently there has been a lot of discussion on the FFF concerning the KJV.  I am wondering what Pastor Wilkerson's stand is on the topic?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8h7zmDPunfU

Straight from his own mouth... start @ 25:29

Thank you for this post.  Brother Wilkerson believes that the Bible is inspired and preserved in the KJV.  Some on the FFF would classify him a "Ruckmanite".  I would not agree with that label on him.

BGW, do you agree with what Wilkerson has said in this video?

Yes I agree with him.

So you agree that God's Work is preserved in the KJV and you would use nothing else.

Strawman.  He Agrees God's Word is preserved in the KJV.  Your adding 100% and "you would use nothing else" is adding words to what he said.

I believe that God's Word is preserved in the KJV.  But that is a far cry from what you are trying to make him say. 

I am in 100% in agreement with Bro Wilkerson and yet I don't agree with certain very minor things He believes and yet I am 100% in agreement with him.  We are agreeable.  Agreeable people or people in one accord allow for difference and do not allow their soul liberty or his to interfere.

Would Pastor Wilkerson believe, as I assume Raider does, that using any English translation other than the 1611 is wrong...sinful? If so, where was the eternal Scriptures before 1611? According to the KJVO position.

 

[Twisted]

Would Pastor Wilkerson believe, as I assume Raider does, that using any English translation other than the 1611 is wrong...sinful?

Do you mean personally?  Or from the pulpit?

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Would Pastor Wilkerson believe, as I assume Raider does, that using any English translation other than the 1611 is wrong...sinful?

Do you mean personally?  Or from the pulpit?

Either...why would you use what you believe to be a sinful perversion at all?
Do you believe that it is sinful to use the ESV to teach or preach, for instance?
I use the KJV because I'm old, set in my comfort zone ways and not because I believe the ESV perverts the Scripture.

 

[RAIDER]

Recently there has been a lot of discussion on the FFF concerning the KJV.  I am wondering what Pastor Wilkerson's stand is on the topic?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8h7zmDPunfU

Straight from his own mouth... start @ 25:29

Thank you for this post.  Brother Wilkerson believes that the Bible is inspired and preserved in the KJV.  Some on the FFF would classify him a "Ruckmanite".  I would not agree with that label on him.

BGW, do you agree with what Wilkerson has said in this video?

Yes I agree with him.

So you agree that God's Work is preserved in the KJV and you would use nothing else.

Strawman.  He Agrees God's Word is preserved in the KJV.  Your adding 100% and "you would use nothing else" is adding words to what he said.

I believe that God's Word is preserved in the KJV.  But that is a far cry from what you are trying to make him say. 

I am in 100% in agreement with Bro Wilkerson and yet I don't agree with certain very minor things He believes and yet I am 100% in agreement with him.  We are agreeable.  Agreeable people or people in one accord allow for difference and do not allow their soul liberty or his to interfere.

I did not add anything to what was said and I am not trying to make JW say anything that he did not clearly say in this video. I have no idea where you came up with that.  I am asking BGW if he agrees 100% with what his pastor, JW, said in the video.  JW said that God's Word is inspired and It is preserved for us in the KJV and he said he would use nothing else.  Start at the 25:25 point and listen again.

 

[Twisted]

Would Pastor Wilkerson believe, as I assume Raider does, that using any English translation other than the 1611 is wrong...sinful?

Do you mean personally?  Or from the pulpit?

Either...why would you use what you believe to be a sinful perversion at all?
Do you believe that it is sinful to use the ESV to teach or preach, for instance?
I use the KJV because I'm old, set in my comfort zone ways and not because I believe the ESV perverts the Scripture.

I understand what you're saying, but it's illogical.  How would you know if it was perverted/sinful if you never read it?

Just an FYI, but the Grand Master of the KJV, Herr Dr. Ruckman, used ALL versions.  His study was filled with them.  He even used them when he preached/taught.  So what?  But he only BELIEVED one.  The KJV.

In fact, he taught Nestle's Greek text at his institute.  If you don't know it, Nestle's is from the corrupt line of Greek texts.

So I'd see no reason why Wilkinson, or anyone, could use any version in private, yet only teach and preach from the KJV, and only promote the KJV as God's Holy Scripture.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Would Pastor Wilkerson believe, as I assume Raider does, that using any English translation other than the 1611 is wrong...sinful?

Do you mean personally?  Or from the pulpit?

Either...why would you use what you believe to be a sinful perversion at all?
Do you believe that it is sinful to use the ESV to teach or preach, for instance?
I use the KJV because I'm old, set in my comfort zone ways and not because I believe the ESV perverts the Scripture.

I understand what you're saying, but it's illogical.  How would you know if it was perverted/sinful if you never read it?

Just an FYI, but the Grand Master of the KJV, Herr Dr. Ruckman, used ALL versions.  His study was filled with them.  He even used them when he preached/taught.  So what?  But he only BELIEVED one.  The KJV.

In fact, he taught Nestle's Greek text at his institute.  If you don't know it, Nestle's is from the corrupt line of Greek texts.

So I'd see no reason why Wilkinson, or anyone, could use any version in private, yet only teach and preach from the KJV, and only promote the KJV as God's Holy Scripture.

He only BELIEVED one!? To me, that's illogical.
I'm not surprised by anything Ruckman did, said or believed. He was a loon in many areas, so that is 'moot'.
Why would Pastor Wilkerson our anyone else for that matter, use a perverted translation, a false Bible for anything but the fire place?

Do you believe that the ESV or the NASV, which Dr Rice preferred, are perverted, false Bibles? And was there a preserved English Bible before 1611?

 

[bgwilkinson]

Recently there has been a lot of discussion on the FFF concerning the KJV.  I am wondering what Pastor Wilkerson's stand is on the topic?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8h7zmDPunfU

Straight from his own mouth... start @ 25:29

Thank you for this post.  Brother Wilkerson believes that the Bible is inspired and preserved in the KJV.  Some on the FFF would classify him a "Ruckmanite".  I would not agree with that label on him.

BGW, do you agree with what Wilkerson has said in this video?

Yes I agree with him.

So you agree that God's Work is preserved in the KJV and you would use nothing else.

Strawman.  He Agrees God's Word is preserved in the KJV.  Your adding 100% and "you would use nothing else" is adding words to what he said.

I believe that God's Word is preserved in the KJV.  But that is a far cry from what you are trying to make him say. 

I am in 100% in agreement with Bro Wilkerson and yet I don't agree with certain very minor things He believes and yet I am 100% in agreement with him.  We are agreeable.  Agreeable people or people in one accord allow for difference and do not allow their soul liberty or his to interfere.

Would Pastor Wilkerson believe, as I assume Raider does, that using any English translation other than the 1611 is wrong...sinful? If so, where was the eternal Scriptures before 1611? According to the KJVO position.

I kept waiting for someone to transcribe what Bro. Wilkerson said, but no one did. So I did. You can criticize my transcription all you want, I'm sure most people could do a better job than I did, but no one did. Feel free to revise and extend this read out..

Pastor Wilkerson transcript.

Part 1
"I believe that the Bible is a God?s Word.
I believe that is, it?s God?s Word inspired Word and by preservation God has preserved it for us in the King James Version of the Bible. I use nothing else a I believe it?s God?s Word."

Part 2
"I have a little bit of a hard time if someone takes another Bible and starts tearing it up and throwing it around and kicking it even if it?s not that version.

I just think it is disrespectful to and it?s offensive and hurtful to people who may have a different...

I think it?s just maybe proves a point but I just.. I don?t know I kinda cringe.. I been to a few services where somebody has done that and to me I just feel like I may feel differently about it if it?s God?s Word or not but I think there?s weaker Christians who would think that is very very hurtful and would cause more difficulty there."


Part 1 is the statement of practice of FBCH, this is an explanation and not really part of the Statement of Faith. This is just how those of us that wrote this section crafted it. We had to please those that were die hard KJVO nuts and those that were not.

Bro. Wilkerson is just carefully reciting this statement of belief and practice.

From our By Laws,  "God has divinely preserved His words for English-speaking people in the King James Version. The King James Version is the translation used in any and all ministries of First Baptist Church for English-speaking people."

Those of us that crafted this have reserved the right to be able to insert any version we so wish and we would be able to accept it.

God has divinely preserved His words for English-speaking people in the American Standard Version. John Rice would like this one and so do I

God has divinely preserved His words for English-speaking people in the New American Standard Version. John Rice also would use this one as I do.

God has divinely preserved His words for English-speaking people in the English Standard Version. Many of us use this one.

God has divinely preserved His words for English-speaking people in the Net Bible. Many of us have used this one since it first came out. 60,000 notes wow, what a treasure trove of Biblical knowledge.

So you can see I can go along with him on that one since I was one of those responsible for the crafting of it.

Now on to Part 2. If you have read the excerpt of the letter I sent to Bro. Wilkerson you already know what that is about.

Can you say Bro. Hyles ripping up an NIV Bible? There were hundreds of horrified people in that audience that seemed to gasp in unison. A huge percentage of them never came back to Pastors' School again. It was the very next year we had to let anyone come during the week just to make the auditorium look less empty. Previous to that only paid delegates could come to daytime sessions.


Where did the idea come from that you had to pick only one version? That is nuttery.
It makes sense to use one for public liturgical readings and for group readings, but for general use why just one? Unless you think all the others are devil's bibles. Ascribing a version to the devil is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit the breather of the Words.

 

[Twisted]

http://youtu.be/PR8NDMgpKGc

 

[bgwilkinson]

http://youtu.be/PR8NDMgpKGc

lol When I said nuttery I didn't mean you had to post an example, but that one sure is sad.
Where did the idea come from that you had to pick only one version?
Well from the Catholics of course with Latin Vulgate Onlyism that got Tyndale murdered.

 

[WESLEY]

BG -  If I remember correctly, aren't you in the HAC yearbook one year, hoisting a sign of a "false" Bible when FBCH did the "Where is the stone that was hewn from the mountain" production?

 

[bgwilkinson]

BG -  If I remember correctly, aren't you in the HAC yearbook one year, hoisting a sign of a "false" Bible when FBCH did the "Where is the stone that was hewn from the mountain" production?

You are correct. Vile wicked blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Was it NKJV?

That one even has the same text base as the KJV. It even includes traditional Catholic textual additions from the Latin Vulgate such as Acts 8:37 and the most famous addition to the Canonical Text, 1 John 5:7 (Comma Johanneum).

This was brought home to me as a child through study of The German Luther Bible and The Swedish Gustav Vasa Bible and their text base from which I studied Greek and Latin, the Erasmus' 1519 Greek-Latin NT.

I was without excuse as I knew from personal study that there is no Comma Johanneum in either Luther's, Gustav Vasa or Erasmus 1519 Diglot New Testament.  I knew well the famous story how the Catholic Church pressured Erasmus to insert the Comma and manuscript 61 produced by Roy or Foy specifically to pressure Erasmus to insert the Catholic Comma Johanneum into his 1521 New Testament. I was without excuse.

I have confessed that great sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit and repented from that unparalleled public wickedness. I believe so far in my life that was the greatest sin I have ever committed. Never again.

It just shows you that good people who know right from wrong will still choose wrong when the coercive peer pressure is great. My parents taught me much better than that. I saw my good friend John Rice using the ASV for study at times
when we visited him in Wheaton. I knew better but I love Bro. Hyles and wanted to be loyal to him.

That is one part of my letter that I did edit out.

That year saw me with an unusually large part in several evening sessions, to my everlasting shame and regret.

If the above sin was not my greatest sin then this one is certainly equal to it or maybe exceeds its depth and vileness as it was directed against the very Son of God.

I described in great detail the fiasco of the magic blood night and with the pyrotechnic blood that did not ignite even after multiple unsuccessful attempts at igniting the display. Blasphemy against the Son of God in presenting Him as less than totally human a form of the Gnostic Jesus just looked human. Blasphemy. All listed and detailed in my letter to Bro. Wilkerson and distributed amongst the deacon board.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

http://youtu.be/PR8NDMgpKGc

Why would Pastor Wilkerson, or anyone else for that matter, use a perverted translation, a false Bible for anything but the fireplace?
Do you believe that the ESV or the NASV, which Dr Rice preferred, are perverted, false Bibles? And was there a preserved English Bible before 1611?

 

[BALAAM]

Didn't Lee Roberson offer the facilities at TTU for the translation committee for the NKJV?

 

[16KJV11]

Didn't Lee Roberson offer the facilities at TTU for the translation committee for the NKJV?

I'm pretty sure he backed out of the offer though.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Didn't Lee Roberson offer the facilities at TTU for the translation committee for the NKJV?

At least one member of the translation committees of the NKJV was a TTU professor. Here is Peter Ruckman quoting Lee Roberson:

Lee Roberson:
?We believe in the infallibility of the scriptures, as given in the original?One of our fine professors, a man who is blind, teaches from the American Standard Version. This was the version which was used in teaching him the scriptures?He is a strong Fundamentalist and a fine teacher and preacher.?

 

[bgwilkinson]

Didn't Lee Roberson offer the facilities at TTU for the translation committee for the NKJV?

At least one member of the translation committees of the NKJV was a TTU professor. Here is Peter Ruckman quoting Lee Roberson:

Lee Roberson:
?We believe in the infallibility of the scriptures, as given in the original?One of our fine professors, a man who is blind, teaches from the American Standard Version. This was the version which was used in teaching him the scriptures?He is a strong Fundamentalist and a fine teacher and preacher.?

NKJV
EXECUTIVE REVIEW COMMITTEE
Arthur L. Farstad, Executive Editor

Old Testament
James D. Price. Chairman. Professor, Department of Old Testament, Temple Baptist Theological Seminary, Chattanooga, Tennessee
Arthur L. Farstad. New Testament Editor, Dallas, Texas
https://www.thomasnelsonbibles.com/nkjv/scholar-team/


Jim also wrote this well researched book.

King James Onlyism: A New Sect
https://www.amazon.com/King-James-Onlyism-New-Sect/dp/0979114705

 

[WESLEY]

BG -  If I remember correctly, aren't you in the HAC yearbook one year, hoisting a sign of a "false" Bible when FBCH did the "Where is the stone that was hewn from the mountain" production?

You are correct. Vile wicked blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Was it NKJV?

That one even has the same text base as the KJV. It even includes traditional Catholic textual additions from the Latin Vulgate such as Acts 8:37 and the most famous addition to the Canonical Text, 1 John 5:7 (Comma Johanneum).

This was brought home to me as a child through study of The German Luther Bible and The Swedish Gustav Vasa Bible and their text base from which I studied Greek and Latin, the Erasmus' 1519 Greek-Latin NT.

I was without excuse as I knew from personal study that there is no Comma Johanneum in either Luther's, Gustav Vasa or Erasmus 1519 Diglot New Testament.  I knew well the famous story how the Catholic Church pressured Erasmus to insert the Comma and manuscript 61 produced by Roy or Foy specifically to pressure Erasmus to insert the Catholic Comma Johanneum into his 1521 New Testament. I was without excuse.

I have confessed that great sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit and repented from that unparalleled public wickedness. I believe so far in my life that was the greatest sin I have ever committed. Never again.

It just shows you that good people who know right from wrong will still choose wrong when the coercive peer pressure is great. My parents taught me much better than that. I saw my good friend John Rice using the ASV for study at times
when we visited him in Wheaton. I knew better but I love Bro. Hyles and wanted to be loyal to him.

That is one part of my letter that I did edit out.

That year saw me with an unusually large part in several evening sessions, to my everlasting shame and regret.

If the above sin was not my greatest sin then this one is certainly equal to it or maybe exceeds its depth and vileness as it was directed against the very Son of God.

I described in great detail the fiasco of the magic blood night and with the pyrotechnic blood that did not ignite even after multiple unsuccessful attempts at igniting the display. Blasphemy against the Son of God in presenting Him as less than totally human a form of the Gnostic Jesus just looked human. Blasphemy. All listed and detailed in my letter to Bro. Wilkerson and distributed amongst the deacon board.

Would you post a copy of that letter?

 

[bgwilkinson]

BG -  If I remember correctly, aren't you in the HAC yearbook one year, hoisting a sign of a "false" Bible when FBCH did the "Where is the stone that was hewn from the mountain" production?

You are correct. Vile wicked blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Was it NKJV?

That one even has the same text base as the KJV. It even includes traditional Catholic textual additions from the Latin Vulgate such as Acts 8:37 and the most famous addition to the Canonical Text, 1 John 5:7 (Comma Johanneum).

This was brought home to me as a child through study of The German Luther Bible and The Swedish Gustav Vasa Bible and their text base from which I studied Greek and Latin, the Erasmus' 1519 Greek-Latin NT.

I was without excuse as I knew from personal study that there is no Comma Johanneum in either Luther's, Gustav Vasa or Erasmus 1519 Diglot New Testament.  I knew well the famous story how the Catholic Church pressured Erasmus to insert the Comma and manuscript 61 produced by Roy or Foy specifically to pressure Erasmus to insert the Catholic Comma Johanneum into his 1521 New Testament. I was without excuse.

I have confessed that great sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit and repented from that unparalleled public wickedness. I believe so far in my life that was the greatest sin I have ever committed. Never again.

It just shows you that good people who know right from wrong will still choose wrong when the coercive peer pressure is great. My parents taught me much better than that. I saw my good friend John Rice using the ASV for study at times
when we visited him in Wheaton. I knew better but I love Bro. Hyles and wanted to be loyal to him.

That is one part of my letter that I did edit out.

That year saw me with an unusually large part in several evening sessions, to my everlasting shame and regret.

If the above sin was not my greatest sin then this one is certainly equal to it or maybe exceeds its depth and vileness as it was directed against the very Son of God.

I described in great detail the fiasco of the magic blood night and with the pyrotechnic blood that did not ignite even after multiple unsuccessful attempts at igniting the display. Blasphemy against the Son of God in presenting Him as less than totally human a form of the Gnostic Jesus just looked human. Blasphemy. All listed and detailed in my letter to Bro. Wilkerson and distributed amongst the deacon board.

Would you post a copy of that letter?

I posted a short highly edited excerpt that I feel comfortable with sharing as it all occurred in a highly public way.

As far as the skeletons they are much less known and I don't feel there is any point to posting them.
I shared them with the pastor so they would not bite him unexpectedly but most are not well known.
Let me just say it is worse than most people would believe.
Even if you have an audio or video from those days the worst parts were edited out before they were duplicated.

Bob Sumner's Saddest Story Ever Told is a good outline, I suggest you read that as it is also highly public and highly accurate.  Disclaimer Robert Sumner was my pastor for short time in the early '60s.

http://www.biblicalevangelist.org/jack_hyles_preface.php

 

[cpizzle]

If anyone would like to ask Pastor Wilkerson directly, he will be preaching at my church this Thursday, June 29th!  The Joyful Melodies from HAC will also be with us.

 

[cpizzle]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1426573054044517&set=a.1426572987377857.1073741830.100000755092432&type=3