Eye for an eye

[rsc2a]

Why does this seem to be a prevailing attitude among some flavors of Christianity? It seems to be is the opposite of what Christ preached.

 

[Ransom]

Why does this seem to be a prevailing attitude among some flavors of Christianity? It seems to be is the opposite of what Christ preached.

Casting vague aspersions - why does this seem to be a prevailing attitude among some flavours of Christianity? It seems to be the opposite of what Jesus preached.

 

[rsc2a]

Because many flavors of Christianity teach an "us vs them" mentality. Just look at what has been said today in another thread:

http://www.fundamentalforums.org/index.php/topic,483.0.html

And, it's not just Muslims, but also different faiths (even other denominations in our own faith), "liberals", other countries, people who disagree on secondary (or tertiary) issues in our faith.

And, if something bad happens to them, "good, they deserve it." Better yet, they did (or said) X, so we need to do Y. Seriously, how many evangelicals are  of the "shoot first, ask questions later" mentality when it comes to foreign policy?

 

[T-Bone]

Because many flavors of Christianity teach an "us vs them" mentality. Just look at what has been said today in another thread:

http://www.fundamentalforums.org/index.php/topic,483.0.html

And, it's not just Muslims, but also different faiths (even other denominations in our own faith), "liberals", other countries, people who disagree on secondary (or tertiary) issues in our faith.

And, if something bad happens to them, "good, they deserve it." Better yet, they did (or said) X, so we need to do Y. Seriously, how many evangelicals are  of the "shoot first, ask questions later" mentality when it comes to foreign policy?

Yeah shame on them for their double standard when it comes to doing right.  If you think there is not a real battle going on then your head is in the sand.  And if you think my point was to pick up arms and kill all the Muslims then you are unable to comprehend my point.  The world is a dangerous place...and made all the more dangerous by people like you who seem to have no problem sitting down at the table of the enemy all in the Name of Jesus...please show me where He taught us to compromise with evil.

 

[The Real Bob]

Because many flavors of Christianity teach an "us vs them" mentality. Just look at what has been said today in another thread:

http://www.fundamentalforums.org/index.php/topic,483.0.html

And, it's not just Muslims, but also different faiths (even other denominations in our own faith), "liberals", other countries, people who disagree on secondary (or tertiary) issues in our faith.

And, if something bad happens to them, "good, they deserve it." Better yet, they did (or said) X, so we need to do Y. Seriously, how many evangelicals are  of the "shoot first, ask questions later" mentality when it comes to foreign policy?

I cannot see how  you can possibly get "an eye for an eye" out of a thread about how dissapointed we are that we have a president that apologizes for something in which we did nothing wrong. The burning of garbage does not need to be apologized for.

I sure hope you are not saying Jesus would be upset that someone would burn books that are evil and heresy.

We have an enemy in the Whitehouse that apologizes to countries that would like to kill us, and somehow you equate disagreement with that as an eye for an eye?  Whew!  You have some serious thought process flaws.

 

[The Real Bob]

Because many flavors of Christianity teach an "us vs them" mentality. Just look at what has been said today in another thread:

http://www.fundamentalforums.org/index.php/topic,483.0.html

And, it's not just Muslims, but also different faiths (even other denominations in our own faith), "liberals", other countries, people who disagree on secondary (or tertiary) issues in our faith.

And, if something bad happens to them, "good, they deserve it." Better yet, they did (or said) X, so we need to do Y. Seriously, how many evangelicals are  of the "shoot first, ask questions later" mentality when it comes to foreign policy?

Yeah shame on them for their double standard when it comes to doing right.  If you think there is not a real battle going on then your head is in the sand.  And if you think my point was to pick up arms and kill all the Muslims then you are unable to comprehend my point.  The world is a dangerous place...and made all the more dangerous by people like you who seem to have no problem sitting down at the table of the enemy all in the Name of Jesus...please show me where He taught us to compromise with evil.

I see you beat me to it, but much more eliquintly.

 

[rsc2a]

Yeah shame on them for their double standard when it comes to doing right.

Right...shame on me for expecting Christians to do good regardless of how others are behaving.

If you think there is not a real battle going on then your head is in the sand.

"For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places."

And if you think my point was to pick up arms and kill all the Muslims then you are unable to comprehend my point.  The world is a dangerous place...and made all the more dangerous by people like you who seem to have no problem sitting down at the table of the enemy all in the Name of Jesus...please show me where He taught us to compromise with evil.

Perhaps I don't see Muslims as enemies. Perhaps I see them as captives. (2 Tim 2:15-16) You don't shoot captives; you rescue captives. And, every time you shoot one of those captives, it makes it harder for the next captive to reach out his hand. If that wasn't the case, the Westboro Baptist nuts would have the largest church in Christendom.

I sure hope you are not saying Jesus would be upset that someone would burn books that are evil and heresy.

We have an enemy in the Whitehouse that apologizes to countries that would like to kill us, and somehow you equate disagreement with that as an eye for an eye?  Whew!  You have some serious thought process flaws.

I'm saying Jesus would be upset by the "Turnabout is fair play" way of thinking. There is no way "turnabout is fair play" can be construed to mean anything other than "an eye for an eye" without some type of further explanation.

---

In fact, when I first tried to get an account on the other forum it was because someone made a statement very similar to "better 1000 dead Iranians than one dead American" (not exact quote) and I thought, "What in the world..."

 

[The Real Bob]

Yeah shame on them for their double standard when it comes to doing right.

Right...shame on me for expecting Christians to do good regardless of how others are behaving.

If you think there is not a real battle going on then your head is in the sand.

"For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places."

And if you think my point was to pick up arms and kill all the Muslims then you are unable to comprehend my point.  The world is a dangerous place...and made all the more dangerous by people like you who seem to have no problem sitting down at the table of the enemy all in the Name of Jesus...please show me where He taught us to compromise with evil.

Perhaps I don't see Muslims as enemies. Perhaps I see them as captives. (2 Tim 2:15-16) You don't shoot captives; you rescue captives. And, every time you shoot one of those captives, it makes it harder for the next captive to reach out his hand. If that wasn't the case, the Westboro Baptist nuts would have the largest church in Christendom.

I sure hope you are not saying Jesus would be upset that someone would burn books that are evil and heresy.

We have an enemy in the Whitehouse that apologizes to countries that would like to kill us, and somehow you equate disagreement with that as an eye for an eye?  Whew!  You have some serious thought process flaws.

I'm saying Jesus would be upset by the "Turnabout is fair play" way of thinking. There is no way "turnabout is fair play" can be construed to mean anything other than "an eye for an eye" without some type of further explanation.

---

In fact, when I first tried to get an account on the other forum it was because someone made a statement very similar to "better 1000 dead Iranians than one dead American" (not exact quote) and I thought, "What in the world..."

If you don't see Muslims as enemies, then you are a fool. They are planning to take over our country and kill us to make this nation a Muslim nation as I type.

 

[rsc2a]

If you don't see Muslims as enemies, then you are a fool. They are planning to take over our country and kill us to make this nation a Muslim nation as I type.

Have you considered who Paul considered his enemies? Did he consider the Romans enemies or captives? Did he consider "flesh and blood" enemies? You can call them enemies all you want, but the Bible calls them captives.

And, I can guarantee you that whatever Muslims would do to Americans (or even Christians) would be a cakewalk compared to what Paul, Peter, et al had to suffer under the Roman empire.

 

[The Real Bob]

If you don't see Muslims as enemies, then you are a fool. They are planning to take over our country and kill us to make this nation a Muslim nation as I type.

Have you considered who Paul considered his enemies? Did he consider the Romans enemies or captives? Did he consider "flesh and blood" enemies? You can call them enemies all you want, but the Bible calls them captives.

And, I can guarantee you that whatever Muslims would do to Americans (or even Christians) would be a cakewalk compared to what Paul, Peter, et al had to suffer under the Roman empire.

Then I suggest you bake some chocolate chip cookies, go to Afghanastan with your bible, and sit down with "the captives" and talk to them about peace, and love, and getting along with others.

 

[standingtall]

If you don't see Muslims as enemies, then you are a fool. They are planning to take over our country and kill us to make this nation a Muslim nation as I type.

Have you considered who Paul considered his enemies? Did he consider the Romans enemies or captives? Did he consider "flesh and blood" enemies? You can call them enemies all you want, but the Bible calls them captives.

And, I can guarantee you that whatever Muslims would do to Americans (or even Christians) would be a cakewalk compared to what Paul, Peter, et al had to suffer under the Roman empire.

What makes you think Jesus was a pacifist?

 

[T-Bone]

Yeah shame on them for their double standard when it comes to doing right.

Right...shame on me for expecting Christians to do good regardless of how others are behaving.

If you think there is not a real battle going on then your head is in the sand.

"For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places."

And if you think my point was to pick up arms and kill all the Muslims then you are unable to comprehend my point.  The world is a dangerous place...and made all the more dangerous by people like you who seem to have no problem sitting down at the table of the enemy all in the Name of Jesus...please show me where He taught us to compromise with evil.

Perhaps I don't see Muslims as enemies. Perhaps I see them as captives. (2 Tim 2:15-16) You don't shoot captives; you rescue captives. And, every time you shoot one of those captives, it makes it harder for the next captive to reach out his hand. If that wasn't the case, the Westboro Baptist nuts would have the largest church in Christendom.

I sure hope you are not saying Jesus would be upset that someone would burn books that are evil and heresy.

We have an enemy in the Whitehouse that apologizes to countries that would like to kill us, and somehow you equate disagreement with that as an eye for an eye?  Whew!  You have some serious thought process flaws.

I'm saying Jesus would be upset by the "Turnabout is fair play" way of thinking. There is no way "turnabout is fair play" can be construed to mean anything other than "an eye for an eye" without some type of further explanation.

---

In fact, when I first tried to get an account on the other forum it was because someone made a statement very similar to "better 1000 dead Iranians than one dead American" (not exact quote) and I thought, "What in the world..."

I just love liberals...you would let a rattlesnake in the crib with your child, cause can't we all just get along.  I adhere to what Paul said in Romans..."As much as it depends on me, I will live a peace with all men."  But I will not compromise truth, nor will I act like evil does not exist.  You pacifist liberals love spewing your dangerous approach to evil under the very protection of those who stood and fought and died for you to do so.

 

[rsc2a]

If you don't see Muslims as enemies, then you are a fool. They are planning to take over our country and kill us to make this nation a Muslim nation as I type.

Have you considered who Paul considered his enemies? Did he consider the Romans enemies or captives? Did he consider "flesh and blood" enemies? You can call them enemies all you want, but the Bible calls them captives.

And, I can guarantee you that whatever Muslims would do to Americans (or even Christians) would be a cakewalk compared to what Paul, Peter, et al had to suffer under the Roman empire.

Then I suggest you bake some chocolate chip cookies, go to Afghanastan with your bible, and sit down with "the captives" and talk to them about peace, and love, and getting along with others.

I've always been a fan of "pick the verses that fit my personal inclinations; ignore the rest" theology. Why don't you address what Paul said?

What makes you think Jesus was a pacifist?

Nothing. What makes you think you have perfect judgment? What makes you think you have the right to vengeance? If (since) Christ is our perfect example, maybe we should look at how He acted towards His enemies while He walked the earth.

"When the days drew near for him to be taken up, he set his face to go to Jerusalem. And he sent messengers ahead of him, who went and entered a village of the Samaritans, to make preparations for him. But the people did not receive him, because his face was set toward Jerusalem. And when his disciples James and John saw it, they said,

 

[T-Bone]

Funny. My liberal friends think I'm a conservative. Guess I must be doing something right.

Keep fooling yourself..it just means you don't stand for anything.


Yet you condone the burning of Korans.  That is anything but striving to "live at peace with all men". That's intentionally throwing rocks at people just to get a rise out of them.

  I have no respect for the Koran...it is filled with lies and it is the devils book, so from my view it deserves to be burned like all trash should be burned.  I stand against its poison with every fiber of my being...you don't like that tough.  Jesus had no problem standing against the false teachings and practices of the religious dead heads of His day...He called them vipers, white-washed tombs...children of the devil.  I think I will follow His example.

My "dangerous approach"? I'm quoting the words of Christ.

You mean picking and choosing what you desire to quote that fits your view...which again relies on others to take a stand so that you have the freedom to make your stand. 

I do think there are cases where violence is necessary. I'm not a pacifist except in regards to my own safety and material possessions. I pretty much adhere to Just War theory when it comes to foreign intervention. Yet you are deluding yourself if you think that the approach this country takes in regards to war is anything but hawkish. There have been very, very few military engagements that we have been that didn't foremost involve protecting (or expanding) our economy or influence.

Yeah you are right...very few, like Revolutionary, WW1, WW2, Civil War, Korea, Viet Nam...very few  :...you are a liberal and I don't care what your other friends say you are.  Just because you might be standing to the right of Schumer and Obama does not make you a conservative. 

 

[rsc2a]

Funny. My liberal friends think I'm a conservative. Guess I must be doing something right.

Keep fooling yourself..it just means you don't stand for anything.

I know this might surprise you, but Jesus didn't vote Republican. Jesus isn't a liberal. Jesus isn't a conservative. Jesus is a radical. You want to know who the conservative party was in the days of Christ? The Pharisees. Leading to...

Yet you condone the burning of Korans.  That is anything but striving to "live at peace with all men". That's intentionally throwing rocks at people just to get a rise out of them.

Jesus had no problem standing against the false teachings and practices of the religious dead heads of His day...He called them vipers, white-washed tombs...children of the devil.  I think I will follow His example.

...the fact that Jesus condemned those in the church. He didn't go after outsiders. Actually, if you want to know how Jesus responded to outsiders, do a bit of study on the the woman at the well (John 4). According to both the example of Christ and the words of Paul, you should be saving your condemnation for those in the Church.

I have no respect for the Koran...it is filled with lies and it is the devils book, so from my view it deserves to be burned like all trash should be burned.  I stand against its poison with every fiber of my being...you don't like that tough.

It's paper. It has no power over anyone. "The rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places" are the things you should stand against. Not paper. In fact, you might even be able to use that paper for good. 

My "dangerous approach"? I'm quoting the words of Christ.

You mean picking and choosing what you desire to quote that fits your view...which again relies on others to take a stand so that you have the freedom to make your stand.

Then why don't you engage the text? Why are you intentionally ignoring what Christ (and Paul) said? Show me exegetically where I'm wrong.

I do think there are cases where violence is necessary. I'm not a pacifist except in regards to my own safety and material possessions. I pretty much adhere to Just War theory when it comes to foreign intervention. Yet you are deluding yourself if you think that the approach this country takes in regards to war is anything but hawkish. There have been very, very few military engagements that we have been that didn't foremost involve protecting (or expanding) our economy or influence.

Yeah you are right...very few, like Revolutionary, WW1, WW2, Civil War, Korea, Viet Nam...very few  :...

Revolutionary War - maybe
WW1 - maybe
WW2 - in part
Civil War - ha!
Korea - ha!
Vietnam - ha!

And you skipped some really fun ones like the Mexican-American War, Spanish-American War, Granada, Panama....to name the non-recent ones off the top of my head.

you are a liberal and I don't care what your other friends say you are.  Just because you might be standing to the right of Schumer and Obama does not make you a conservative.

God grant us the day when people realize that political views are not binary. God save me from ever being a "conservative" as hyper-conservatives label it.

 

[T-Bone]

I know this might surprise you, but Jesus didn't vote Republican. Jesus isn't a liberal. Jesus isn't a conservative. Jesus is a radical. You want to know who the conservative party was in the days of Christ? The Pharisees. Leading to...

This might surprize you, neither am I a Republican...and since we are using labels, the label of radical has been used for me than any of the other two.


...the fact that Jesus condemned those in the church. He didn't go after outsiders. Actually, if you want to know how Jesus responded to outsiders, do a bit of study on the the woman at the well (John 4). According to both the example of Christ and the words of Paul, you should be saving your condemnation for those in the Church.

Actually to be correct he did not condemn anyone in the church...the pharisees were not in the church.  It was the religious dead heads that He address...and that is who I am address regardless of their religious affiliation.


It's paper. It has no power over anyone. "The rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places" are the things you should stand against. Not paper. In fact, you might even be able to use that paper for good. 
Really...its just paper...you can't mean that...if you do then quit quoting the Bible, its only paper.  You can't be that obtuse to think that I would be referring to only paper.  That being said...I would agree with the usage of the paper  ...Logic would also require that if it is only paper then you should have no problem with anyone burning it.



Then why don't you engage the text? Why are you intentionally ignoring what Christ (and Paul) said? Show me exegetically where I'm wrong.
You have spoken in generalities and so have I.  I do not intend to go into an indepth debate over every text.  I would just ask you to deal with the whole...and not just the part that fits you bent.



Revolutionary War - maybe
WW1 - maybe
WW2 - in part
Civil War - ha!
Korea - ha!
Vietnam - ha!

And you skipped some really fun ones like the Mexican-American War, Spanish-American War, Granada, Panama....to name the non-recent ones off the top of my head.

As you went off the "top of your head"...so did I...never intended to mention all the wars...care to tell us what financial benefit we received from either Korea or Vietnam...since you find it so funny?


God grant us the day when people realize that political views are not binary. God save me from ever being a "conservative" as hyper-conservatives label it.

And God save me from ever being so liberal as I put others in danger and my view of "love" & "peace" is to sit back and let evil thrive!

 

[rsc2a]

Funny. My liberal friends think I'm a conservative. Guess I must be doing something right.

Keep fooling yourself..it just means you don't stand for anything.

...you are a liberal and I don't care what your other friends say you are.  Just because you might be standing to the right of Schumer and Obama does not make you a conservative.

This reminded me of my original complaint:

Because many flavors of Christianity teach an "us vs them" mentality.

 

[Bro Blue]

I would probably not burn a koran in a muslim country due to me wanting to keep my head. Do I have a problem with it being burned?....nope. I am not going to kowtow to a bunch of extremists that would rather slit my throat than look at me, much less talk to me. I'm so sick of those people crying foul over something we do, but it's ok for them. You may want to have a picnic with them, but not me. And if I witness to one, it will be with a bible in one hand and a pistol in the back pocket. My wife and kids need me.

 

[rsc2a]

I know this might surprise you, but Jesus didn't vote Republican. Jesus isn't a liberal. Jesus isn't a conservative. Jesus is a radical. You want to know who the conservative party was in the days of Christ? The Pharisees. Leading to...

This might surprize you, neither am I a Republican...and since we are using labels, the label of radical has been used for me than any of the other two.

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

...the fact that Jesus condemned those in the church. He didn't go after outsiders. Actually, if you want to know how Jesus responded to outsiders, do a bit of study on the the woman at the well (John 4). According to both the example of Christ and the words of Paul, you should be saving your condemnation for those in the Church.

Actually to be correct he did not condemn anyone in the church...the pharisees were not in the church.  It was the religious dead heads that He address...and that is who I am address regardless of their religious affiliation.

You're playing semantics. Furthermore, can you show me where He addressed greco-roman priests? Perhaps Buddhists or Hindus? The only ones He addressed were the Jews, the ones who were supposed to be His chosen people.

It's paper. It has no power over anyone. "The rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places" are the things you should stand against. Not paper. In fact, you might even be able to use that paper for good. 
Really...its just paper...you can't mean that...if you do then quit quoting the Bible, its only paper.  You can't be that obtuse to think that I would be referring to only paper.  That being said...I would agree with the usage of the paper  ...Logic would also require that if it is only paper then you should have no problem with anyone burning it.

For you and I, it is only paper. There is no power inherent in the paper, just like there is no power inherent in the physical Bibles I have laying around. It is the "truth' taught. Burning either a Bible or a Koran won't eliminate the 'truths' because the sources of those 'truths' still exists. However, if burning it offends someone, why do it? It's not the burning of a Koran I have issue with. It's the burning of Korans just to tick people off.

Then why don't you engage the text? Why are you intentionally ignoring what Christ (and Paul) said? Show me exegetically where I'm wrong.
You have spoken in generalities and so have I.  I do not intend to go into an indepth debate over every text.  I would just ask you to deal with the whole...and not just the part that fits you bent.

No. I've been very specific. And I have dealt with the whole. "'Vengeance is mine', thus saith the Lord." So, short of an audible voice from heaven or clearly Scriptural mandate, I don't see where you've been granted authority to exact that vengeance or judge the world.

As you went off the "top of your head"...so did I...never intended to mention all the wars...care to tell us what financial benefit we received from either Korea or Vietnam...since you find it so funny?

There have been very, very few military engagements that we have been that didn't foremost involve protecting (or expanding) our economy or influence.

Are you saying Korea and Vietnam wasn't about influence (and by extension, economy)?

God grant us the day when people realize that political views are not binary. God save me from ever being a "conservative" as hyper-conservatives label it.

And God save me from ever being so liberal as I put others in danger and my view of "love" & "peace" is to sit back and let evil thrive!

Funny thing is that God did just that, and the victory was in the surrender.

"Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man attested to you by God with mighty works and wonders and signs that God did through him in your midst, as you yourselves know

 

[The Real Bob]

I think we have a Muslim troll, and an enemy of the United States of America on the board.

Just what we needed....yet another troll!