Ed Stetzer (SBC missiologist guru) throws Schaap under the bus.
- Thread starter ALAYMAN
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The single line you quoted seems to be all that Stetzer says in the article. Is any of what little he said incorrect?
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I think that what Alayman might be getting at is that, while Schaap apparently threw himself under the bus, Stetzer wants to tie all IFB's to him and run 'em over again.
Just wait a few days and someone can tweet "@BillyBobPastorRickWarrenWannabe, SBC 1st Podunck Holler, joins a growing list of Southern Baptist molestors bit.ly/OCUboo #Speak!"
There's the beam.
Just wait a few days and someone can tweet "@BillyBobPastorRickWarrenWannabe, SBC 1st Podunck Holler, joins a growing list of Southern Baptist molestors bit.ly/OCUboo #Speak!"
There's the beam.
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Reformed Guy said:
Yes, that's a big part of it, but it's a little more than that I suppose. I'm all for "rebuking an elder so that others may fear", but I'm a bit put off by this techno-generation that tweets and uses short soundbytes to characterize/summarize their thoughts. The brevity of the communication doesn't provide for the proper amount of space for substantive/necessary commentary/dialogue. It also smacks of juvenile or petty sniping and one-upsmanship, or maybe sensationalism to garner an audience, much of which characterizes forums and social media like this one we're on. I expect more from somebody who is supposed to be a leader in the arena of marketplace conversations.
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[quote author=OZZY]
As far as the beam in he camp. We(IFB). Really can't say to much the last thirty years IFB Have been notorious for covering up sexual sins of leaders and laymen alike. So let them hurl what ever they like.[/quote]
I hear ya bro, I really do, and agree. I'm not at all using the ol "they do it too so leave us alone" line, but asking for some charity for the hurting, and deeper dialogue about why these things happen in quasi-legalistic circles. Offering insight as to how God's grace is our means of of salvation and sanctification could help those who are left dazed and confused. Telling those left holding the bag how somebody can look the part but be dirty inside if they're not actually walking in the Spirit (as opposed to simply "holding high standards") seems more productive in such times, rather than simply kicking the <deserving> dog when he is down.
As far as the beam in he camp. We(IFB). Really can't say to much the last thirty years IFB Have been notorious for covering up sexual sins of leaders and laymen alike. So let them hurl what ever they like.[/quote]
I hear ya bro, I really do, and agree. I'm not at all using the ol "they do it too so leave us alone" line, but asking for some charity for the hurting, and deeper dialogue about why these things happen in quasi-legalistic circles. Offering insight as to how God's grace is our means of of salvation and sanctification could help those who are left dazed and confused. Telling those left holding the bag how somebody can look the part but be dirty inside if they're not actually walking in the Spirit (as opposed to simply "holding high standards") seems more productive in such times, rather than simply kicking the <deserving> dog when he is down.
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I think a couple of you might be a bit too sensitive. For the few IFB churches relative to the many more SBC churches you brought up there does seem to be an inordinate amount of problems with these type of "pastors". Furthermore, there seems to be a lot of problems with pastors coming from the Hyles orbit of IFB.
These X'er pastors get up weekly and beat people like Stetzer up and call them everyhting but a believer but when they fall on their hypocritical faces you expect these guys to be lovey-dovey in return? Stetzer wasn't rude or snide in the least. He was truthful. Let's face it....the only times they likely hear about these X'er type guys are when they are in trouble. They don't want to play nice with anyone one else in the Kingdom so there isn't much to say or know about them but the negative you hear and read. The X'ers and to a large part the independents don't want to have anything to do with the larger body.
These X'er pastors get up weekly and beat people like Stetzer up and call them everyhting but a believer but when they fall on their hypocritical faces you expect these guys to be lovey-dovey in return? Stetzer wasn't rude or snide in the least. He was truthful. Let's face it....the only times they likely hear about these X'er type guys are when they are in trouble. They don't want to play nice with anyone one else in the Kingdom so there isn't much to say or know about them but the negative you hear and read. The X'ers and to a large part the independents don't want to have anything to do with the larger body.
John,
I understand your point and agree with you to a point. Certainly, many of these men deserve to be kicked while they are down already. And yes, many of them make careers out of condemning Southern Baptists and others who are not like them. Likewise, I think Alayman has a point also. we certainly have our share of pastors who have either committed awful sins or covered up the sins of others. But, even if the occurrences are greater in IFB land as you say, that shouldn't give us license to gloat over another one biting the dust. Wouldn't it be a shame if the media or someone in another denomination were to point to what happened this past week in Mississippi as yet another example in a long line of examples of racism in the Southern Baptist Convention? Has anyone ever been able to understand why Steve Gaines is still the pastor of Bellevue Baptist Church and seems to hold an influential position in the Southern Baptist Convention on a national level? as a matter of fact, if you do look on the Stop Baptist Predators home page, you will notice that there are a lot of prominent Southern Baptist Leaders who are mentioned on there. I wonder how much of this has been thoroughly investigated. Let's not be too quick to point the finger and think we are pure as the wind driven snow, or even certainly better than them. We might live long enough to eat those words.
I understand your point and agree with you to a point. Certainly, many of these men deserve to be kicked while they are down already. And yes, many of them make careers out of condemning Southern Baptists and others who are not like them. Likewise, I think Alayman has a point also. we certainly have our share of pastors who have either committed awful sins or covered up the sins of others. But, even if the occurrences are greater in IFB land as you say, that shouldn't give us license to gloat over another one biting the dust. Wouldn't it be a shame if the media or someone in another denomination were to point to what happened this past week in Mississippi as yet another example in a long line of examples of racism in the Southern Baptist Convention? Has anyone ever been able to understand why Steve Gaines is still the pastor of Bellevue Baptist Church and seems to hold an influential position in the Southern Baptist Convention on a national level? as a matter of fact, if you do look on the Stop Baptist Predators home page, you will notice that there are a lot of prominent Southern Baptist Leaders who are mentioned on there. I wonder how much of this has been thoroughly investigated. Let's not be too quick to point the finger and think we are pure as the wind driven snow, or even certainly better than them. We might live long enough to eat those words.
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Just John said:
I understand the idea that when you hold yourself out to be the epitome of West Point Christianity while condemning all else as McHale's Navy that you open yourself up for being pummeled when you fall. That's just human nature. But in Christianity we don't use the "what goes around comes around" philosophy. Those who are presumbably more grace oriented ought to find occasions like this to demonstrate the high road and to be helpful, not scornful IMHO. As Bandguy alluded to, the recent racist Mississippi wedding incident is a perfect demonstration of such charity. The SBC president ought to be lauded for his words of diplomacy and encouragement. Stetzer should use similar tact. That doesn't mean we should turn a blind eye or be silent about scandals, but we ought to treat them with discretion, prudence, grace, and charity, especially in the interest of those that are potential victims and casualties.
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[quote author=Just John]
I don't disagree but nor did I see Stetzer piling on, being rude, snide, or celebrating in ANY manner.
[/quote]
Maybe not, and I'd like to take your word for it, but, with all the former fundies constantly talking about how irrelevent and inconsequential the IFB "bigwigs" are, I'd think that this wouldn't even be a blip on the radar of somebody like Lifeway's Stetzer. Why in the world did he even take notice?
I don't disagree but nor did I see Stetzer piling on, being rude, snide, or celebrating in ANY manner.
[/quote]
Maybe not, and I'd like to take your word for it, but, with all the former fundies constantly talking about how irrelevent and inconsequential the IFB "bigwigs" are, I'd think that this wouldn't even be a blip on the radar of somebody like Lifeway's Stetzer. Why in the world did he even take notice?
C
christundivided
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ALAYMAN said:
Maybe not, and I'd like to take your word for it, but, with all the former fundies constantly talking about how irrelevent and inconsequential the IFB "bigwigs" are, I'd think that this wouldn't even be a blip on the radar of somebody like Lifeway's Stetzer. Why in the world did he even take notice?
[/quote]
Why in the world did you even take notice of Stetzer taking notice?
christundivided said:
Why in the world did you even take notice of Stetzer taking notice?
[/quote]
I don't get that either. Seems kinda nitpicky.
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http://www.edstetzer.com/
Stetzer is an SBC guru....they have their own problems in this area....and the OP wasn't out of character with others here....you link to something and we talk about it.
P
Stetzer is an SBC guru....they have their own problems in this area....and the OP wasn't out of character with others here....you link to something and we talk about it.
P
Tarheel Baptist said:
ALAYMAN said:
Maybe not, and I'd like to take your word for it, but, with all the former fundies constantly talking about how irrelevent and inconsequential the IFB "bigwigs" are, I'd think that this wouldn't even be a blip on the radar of somebody like Lifeway's Stetzer. Why in the world did he even take notice?
[/quote]
Honestly,
I had never heard of Hyles, Schaap, Anderson, or Young Baptists till I started posting at the Old FFF. My guess is that certain News Specials like 20/20 in the past few years have helped to spread some of these people's fame. I don't really know Stetzer so maybe he has known about the fruitcakes for a long time.
rsc2a said:
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[quote author=christundivided
Why in the world did you even take notice of Stetzer taking notice?
[/quote]
I'm a nobody, Stetzer's a somebody. Schaap and IFBs are nobodys (per the FFF gang). People take note of somebodys, not nobodys. Get it now?
I understand the 20/20 connection, but even as much Chicagoland attention this got I still find it interesting that he noticed AND felt the need to comment (about presumably an inconsequential man and movement).
Why in the world did you even take notice of Stetzer taking notice?
[/quote]
I'm a nobody, Stetzer's a somebody. Schaap and IFBs are nobodys (per the FFF gang). People take note of somebodys, not nobodys. Get it now?
Bandguy said:
I understand the 20/20 connection, but even as much Chicagoland attention this got I still find it interesting that he noticed AND felt the need to comment (about presumably an inconsequential man and movement).