Dr. Hyles Vs Jack Schaap

[sawthruglassclearly]

Throughout the many years since I have been gone from there and ?recovered?, somewhat, from my time there, as best I can. I have come to believe that those silly fits he threw were far more telling than the arrogant facade he wore until it was cracking and falling off? I have come to believe that he was personally insecure, a talented actor, and a gifted liar! I think of that song from the musical, ?Chicago?, ?Give ?em the old razzle dazzle! Razzle-dazzle ?em, razzle-dazzle ?em! How can they see with sequins in their eyes??.  (Nearly everything I learned about lying ((there are both good and bad lessons about lying)), I learned from him and countless others during my time there! Ironic!)

 

[TidesofTruth]

Throughout the many years since I have been gone from there and ?recovered?, somewhat, from my time there, as best I can. I have come to believe that those silly fits he threw were far more telling than the arrogant facade he wore until it was cracking and falling off? I have come to believe that he was personally insecure, a talented actor, and a gifted liar! I think of that song from the musical, ?Chicago?, ?Give ?em the old razzle dazzle! Razzle-dazzle ?em, razzle-dazzle ?em! How can they see with sequins in their eyes??.  (Nearly everything I learned about lying (there are both good and bad lessons about lying), I learned from him and countless others during my time there! Ironic!

You have some of the most twisted and psychotic views on here.  You really need some serious mental help.

 

[Twisted]

You really need some serious mental help.

I can help him.

 

[RAIDER]

Walt:
However, in how he treated others, that's a different thing.  At a pastor's school, after an excellent piano solo by a young man, Dr Hyles called piano playing "effeminate" and "sissified" - and a talent that could have been used to God's glory was snuffed out. Moreover, others heard and repeated the comment. A friend of mine was a talented pianist, but was likewise mocked by someone copying JH (his idol), and so the young man gave up.

I believe this was done in a joking manner. Dr Hyles (unlike Walt ?) was known for his great sense of humor.

Exactly!

 

[LongGone]

Walt:
However, in how he treated others, that's a different thing.  At a pastor's school, after an excellent piano solo by a young man, Dr Hyles called piano playing "effeminate" and "sissified" - and a talent that could have been used to God's glory was snuffed out. Moreover, others heard and repeated the comment. A friend of mine was a talented pianist, but was likewise mocked by someone copying JH (his idol), and so the young man gave up.

I believe this was done in a joking manner. Dr Hyles (unlike Walt ?) was known for his great sense of humor.

I don't know about this particular situation but I do remember in the mid 70s Hyles stating that David would never have been given piano lessons and he thought the way a man would have to sit to play the piano was feminine. He also didn't think a man should ever be named Francis because he percieved it as feminine.

Not sure why we thought it was OK for a pastor to given us his random opinions from the pulpit that has nothing to do with scripture.

Exactly!

 

[sawthruglassclearly]

You really need some serious mental help.

I can help him.

To ?Tides of Truth?, I say you can think whatever you like.  1. That?s one of the greatest things about this country: the freedom to express one?s opinion.  2. I would expect someone like you to say exactly what you said, so absolutely no surprise there.  3. This is the most important one: I don?t care one bit what you think or how you live your life. I will not respond further regarding this matter. IT HAS ALL BEEN COVERED IN MY REPLY.

 

[NewCov]

I found Jack Hykes to be down to earth and sincere in every interaction I had with him.  I found Jack Schaap  to be arrogant and insincere in every interaction I had with him. I was very close to both of them, met with both often and got calls from both of them often. I didn?t vote for JS.  Nearly every time we had a meeting, he?d pressure me to tell him how I voted. I kept telling him that my voting, politically and church wise was a private matter. One day he pushed and pushed and told me he wouldn?t hold it against  me, but wanted know how I voted and why. I finally told him I voted no, and told him why. He held it against me from then on.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Walt:
However, in how he treated others, that's a different thing.  At a pastor's school, after an excellent piano solo by a young man, Dr Hyles called piano playing "effeminate" and "sissified" - and a talent that could have been used to God's glory was snuffed out. Moreover, others heard and repeated the comment. A friend of mine was a talented pianist, but was likewise mocked by someone copying JH (his idol), and so the young man gave up.

I believe this was done in a joking manner. Dr Hyles (unlike Walt ?) was known for his great sense of humor.

I don't know about this particular situation but I do remember in the mid 70s Hyles stating that David would never have been given piano lessons and he thought the way a man would have to sit to play the piano was feminine. He also didn't think a man should ever be named Francis because he percieved it as feminine.

Not sure why we thought it was OK for a pastor to given us his random opinions from the pulpit that has nothing to do with scripture.

Exactly!

Hey Goner!
It's good to have you back.

 

[GeneFrenkle]

I found Jack Hykes to be down to earth and sincere in every interaction I had with him.  I found Jack Schaap  to be arrogant and insincere in every interaction I had with him. I was very close to both of them, met with both often and got calls from both of them often. I didn?t vote for JS.  Nearly every time we had a meeting, he?d pressure me to tell him how I voted. I kept telling him that my voting, politically and church wise was a private matter. One day he pushed and pushed and told me he wouldn?t hold it against  me, but wanted know how I voted and why. I finally told him I voted no, and told him why. He held it against me from then on.

I'm a 4%'er as well.  But never told him. 

 

[Walt]

I'm sure some would disagree, but I never looked at Dr. Hyles as arrogant.  He always seemed to remember from whence he came.  My opinion of Jack Schaap was totally opposite.  I viewed him as cocky and arrogant.  He seemed to have the attitude "I'm going to take this thing to the next level.  I'm first class.  I'm a deep, philosophical thinker."  JMO!

I think that in his messages, JS came across as arrogant. He'd claim to have some secret knowledge because of his studies, or else a private conversation with JH.  I don't recall JH coming across IN HIS PREACHING as arrogant.

However, in how he treated others, that's a different thing.  At a pastor's school, after an excellent piano solo by a young man, Dr Hyles called piano playing "effeminate" and "sissified" - and a talent that could have been used to God's glory was snuffed out. Moreover, others heard and repeated the comment. A friend of mine was a talented pianist, but was likewise mocked by someone copying JH (his idol), and so the young man gave up.

When JH flew to a scheduled meeting, he was not met by anyone from the host church. He called the church, got hold of the young pastor and told him that he was bunglingly inefficient.  The pastor said that according to the schedule they were given, JH was arriving later. This only provoked JH to  greater rage, claiming that his secretary did not make errors like that.

This is arrogance, in my book.

(It turned out later that JH secretary had indeed made an error and sent the wrong schedule to the church).

Jack Hyles (in private), made Schaap look meek.

Sent from my H1611 using Tapatalk

I have spent some solo-time with Bro. Hyles and I have never experienced him to be arrogant, demeaning or condescending in any way.

Well, that's good for you... perhaps you never crossed him in any way.

 

[Walt]

However, in how he treated others, that's a different thing.  At a pastor's school, after an excellent piano solo by a young man, Dr Hyles called piano playing "effeminate" and "sissified" - and a talent that could have been used to God's glory was snuffed out. Moreover, others heard and repeated the comment. A friend of mine was a talented pianist, but was likewise mocked by someone copying JH (his idol), and so the young man gave up.

Walt, you may have a great sense of humor, but I haven't seen it much on the FFF.  Dr. Hyles loved to tease and joke.  What you are describing as a hateful, serious comment was nothing more than a moment of teasing.

Maybe the things talked about here are often serious.  It was not teasing to a young man made to feel ashamed of his gift. It was not teasing to the attendees who went back to their churches and mocked young men with this kind of talent.  It destroyed something in them.  Some of them left IFB churches over these kinds of wounds.

I've seen the hurt firsthand caused by this kind of vicious teasing, and to pass it off as "just teasing" doesn't cut it for me.  I think Proverbs has a verse about those who hurt others and claim that it was in sport.

Perhaps neither of the young men should have been so sensitive, but it's hard when a leader that is respected by so many others is mocking your abilities.

 

[Walt]

Walt:
However, in how he treated others, that's a different thing.  At a pastor's school, after an excellent piano solo by a young man, Dr Hyles called piano playing "effeminate" and "sissified" - and a talent that could have been used to God's glory was snuffed out. Moreover, others heard and repeated the comment. A friend of mine was a talented pianist, but was likewise mocked by someone copying JH (his idol), and so the young man gave up.

I believe this was done in a joking manner. Dr Hyles (unlike Walt ?) was known for his great sense of humor.

I guess so -- you can tell from all of the racist jokes he told.

 

[fishinnut]

Walt:
However, in how he treated others, that's a different thing.  At a pastor's school, after an excellent piano solo by a young man, Dr Hyles called piano playing "effeminate" and "sissified" - and a talent that could have been used to God's glory was snuffed out. Moreover, others heard and repeated the comment. A friend of mine was a talented pianist, but was likewise mocked by someone copying JH (his idol), and so the young man gave up.

I believe this was done in a joking manner. Dr Hyles (unlike Walt ?) was known for his great sense of humor.

I guess so -- you can tell from all of the racist jokes he told.

What! :

 

[Walt]

Walt:
However, in how he treated others, that's a different thing.  At a pastor's school, after an excellent piano solo by a young man, Dr Hyles called piano playing "effeminate" and "sissified" - and a talent that could have been used to God's glory was snuffed out. Moreover, others heard and repeated the comment. A friend of mine was a talented pianist, but was likewise mocked by someone copying JH (his idol), and so the young man gave up.

I believe this was done in a joking manner. Dr Hyles (unlike Walt ?) was known for his great sense of humor.

I guess so -- you can tell from all of the racist jokes he told.

What! :

Just a nod to the bad ol' days when some in the inner circle (Vineyard, I think) revealed that Hyles told some pretty strong N-------- jokes.

 

[fishinnut]

Walt:
However, in how he treated others, that's a different thing.  At a pastor's school, after an excellent piano solo by a young man, Dr Hyles called piano playing "effeminate" and "sissified" - and a talent that could have been used to God's glory was snuffed out. Moreover, others heard and repeated the comment. A friend of mine was a talented pianist, but was likewise mocked by someone copying JH (his idol), and so the young man gave up.

I believe this was done in a joking manner. Dr Hyles (unlike Walt ?) was known for his great sense of humor.

I guess so -- you can tell from all of the racist jokes he told.

What! :

Just a nod to the bad ol' days when some in the inner circle (Vineyard, I think) revealed that Hyles told some pretty strong N-------- jokes.

But your insinuation was made it sound like that was part of his pulpit ministry.

 

[Norefund]

It was part of his pulpit ministry. I remember hearing Jack Hyles tell this joke from the pulpit. Maybe some of you older members will also remember it. It did get a big laugh. I am paraphrasing but the gist is here:

A Negro woman is sitting on her front porch eating a watermelon. A man comes up to her and tells her that her son was just killed. The woman continues eating her watermelon. The man repeats the news that her son just died. She continues eating the watermelon. The man repeats the news one more time and asks, "Your son just died. Aren't you going to carry on?" The woman replies: "Just as soon as I finish eating this watermelon, you ain't never seen such carrying on as I'm going to do."

Walt:
However, in how he treated others, that's a different thing.  At a pastor's school, after an excellent piano solo by a young man, Dr Hyles called piano playing "effeminate" and "sissified" - and a talent that could have been used to God's glory was snuffed out. Moreover, others heard and repeated the comment. A friend of mine was a talented pianist, but was likewise mocked by someone copying JH (his idol), and so the young man gave up.

I believe this was done in a joking manner. Dr Hyles (unlike Walt ?) was known for his great sense of humor.

I guess so -- you can tell from all of the racist jokes he told.

What! :

Just a nod to the bad ol' days when some in the inner circle (Vineyard, I think) revealed that Hyles told some pretty strong N-------- jokes.

But your insinuation was made it sound like that was part of his pulpit ministry.

 

[Twisted]

It was part of his pulpit ministry. I remember hearing Jack Hyles tell this joke from the pulpit. Maybe some of you older members will also remember it. It did get a big laugh. I am paraphrasing but the gist is here:

A Negro woman is sitting on her front porch eating a watermelon. A man comes up to her and tells her that her son was just killed. The woman continues eating her watermelon. The man repeats the news that her son just died. She continues eating the watermelon. The man repeats the news one more time and asks, "Your son just died. Aren't you going to carry on?" The woman replies: "Just as soon as I finish eating this watermelon, you ain't never seen such carrying on as I'm going to do."

That's a joke?  Seems the woman had her priorities.

But the question is this:  Did she use salt?

 

[GeneFrenkle]

It was part of his pulpit ministry. I remember hearing Jack Hyles tell this joke from the pulpit. Maybe some of you older members will also remember it. It did get a big laugh. I am paraphrasing but the gist is here:

A Negro woman is sitting on her front porch eating a watermelon. A man comes up to her and tells her that her son was just killed. The woman continues eating her watermelon. The man repeats the news that her son just died. She continues eating the watermelon. The man repeats the news one more time and asks, "Your son just died. Aren't you going to carry on?" The woman replies: "Just as soon as I finish eating this watermelon, you ain't never seen such carrying on as I'm going to do."

Walt:
However, in how he treated others, that's a different thing.  At a pastor's school, after an excellent piano solo by a young man, Dr Hyles called piano playing "effeminate" and "sissified" - and a talent that could have been used to God's glory was snuffed out. Moreover, others heard and repeated the comment. A friend of mine was a talented pianist, but was likewise mocked by someone copying JH (his idol), and so the young man gave up.

I believe this was done in a joking manner. Dr Hyles (unlike Walt ?) was known for his great sense of humor.

I guess so -- you can tell from all of the racist jokes he told.

What! :

Just a nod to the bad ol' days when some in the inner circle (Vineyard, I think) revealed that Hyles told some pretty strong N-------- jokes.

But your insinuation was made it sound like that was part of his pulpit ministry.

I dunno...he grew up in a different time.  Yes, we know better now but this wasn't out of place in what he came from.  I had a sweet old Grandma that said some messed up stuff.  But that's how they grew up.

I'm sure there will be some things you say as an old person that the next generation will find objectionable.

For instance...I have used "Oriental" to describe Asians since I was a kid.  I just found out in the last few years that the term is unacceptable.  That's what we grew up with.

 

[fishinnut]

It was part of his pulpit ministry. I remember hearing Jack Hyles tell this joke from the pulpit. Maybe some of you older members will also remember it. It did get a big laugh. I am paraphrasing but the gist is here:

A Negro woman is sitting on her front porch eating a watermelon. A man comes up to her and tells her that her son was just killed. The woman continues eating her watermelon. The man repeats the news that her son just died. She continues eating the watermelon. The man repeats the news one more time and asks, "Your son just died. Aren't you going to carry on?" The woman replies: "Just as soon as I finish eating this watermelon, you ain't never seen such carrying on as I'm going to do."

Walt:
However, in how he treated others, that's a different thing.  At a pastor's school, after an excellent piano solo by a young man, Dr Hyles called piano playing "effeminate" and "sissified" - and a talent that could have been used to God's glory was snuffed out. Moreover, others heard and repeated the comment. A friend of mine was a talented pianist, but was likewise mocked by someone copying JH (his idol), and so the young man gave up.

I believe this was done in a joking manner. Dr Hyles (unlike Walt ?) was known for his great sense of humor.

I guess so -- you can tell from all of the racist jokes he told.

What! :

Just a nod to the bad ol' days when some in the inner circle (Vineyard, I think) revealed that Hyles told some pretty strong N-------- jokes.

But your insinuation was made it sound like that was part of his pulpit ministry.

I dunno...he grew up in a different time.  Yes, we know better now but this wasn't out of place in what he came from.  I had a sweet old Grandma that said some messed up stuff.  But that's how they grew up.

I'm sure there will be some things you say as an old person that the next generation will find objectionable.

For instance...I have used "Oriental" to describe Asians since I was a kid.  I just found out in the last few years that the term is unacceptable.  That's what we grew up with.

What he said.

 

[Walt]

Walt:
However, in how he treated others, that's a different thing.  At a pastor's school, after an excellent piano solo by a young man, Dr Hyles called piano playing "effeminate" and "sissified" - and a talent that could have been used to God's glory was snuffed out. Moreover, others heard and repeated the comment. A friend of mine was a talented pianist, but was likewise mocked by someone copying JH (his idol), and so the young man gave up.

I believe this was done in a joking manner. Dr Hyles (unlike Walt ?) was known for his great sense of humor.

I guess so -- you can tell from all of the racist jokes he told.

What! :

Just a nod to the bad ol' days when some in the inner circle (Vineyard, I think) revealed that Hyles told some pretty strong N-------- jokes.

But your insinuation was made it sound like that was part of his pulpit ministry.

Sorry, my error.  Never heard him say anything like this in public.