Dr. Hyles Vs Jack Schaap

[WESLEY]

I find it interesting to contrast how Jack Hyles compared to Jack Schaap in how he handled his battles...

In the late 1980's, when all of the allegations surfaced, Jack Hyles played to his base -  came out strong KJO, etc.... He ended his life with his church / ministry largely intact.  The college probably had 2,000 students, and Hammond Baptist had well over 1,000 students.

Contrast that to Jack Schaap -  when he first ran into difficulties, it was because his "base" was concerned about this stance on the King James Bible... instead of "playing to his base", he went the opposite extreme, making derogatory statements to and about Russell Anderson and many other.  He began to go to the opposite extreme, praising and fellowshipping with CCM type churches  (ie Pastor G, Pastor Meeks, etc).

Thoughts?

 

[Twisted]

 

[16KJV11]

I find it interesting to contrast how Jack Hyles compared to Jack Schaap in how he handled his battles...

In the late 1980's, when all of the allegations surfaced, Jack Hyles played to his base -  came out strong KJO, etc.... He ended his life with his church / ministry largely intact.  The college probably had 2,000 students, and Hammond Baptist had well over 1,000 students.

Contrast that to Jack Schaap -  when he first ran into difficulties, it was because his "base" was concerned about this stance on the King James Bible... instead of "playing to his base", he went the opposite extreme, making derogatory statements to and about Russell Anderson and many other.  He began to go to the opposite extreme, praising and fellowshipping with CCM type churches  (ie Pastor G, Pastor Meeks, etc).

Thoughts?

I compare Schaap to modern day Rino's.

 

[TheRealJonStewart]

Hyles knew how to draw a crowd through his charisma. Charisma will usually keep people in as well.

Schaap knew how to draw a crowd through schemes and marketing. Those won't keep people in.

 

[Twisted]

Hyles knew how to draw a crowd through his charisma. Charisma will usually keep people in as well.

Schaap knew how to draw a crowd through schemes and marketing. Those won't keep people in.

Odd how neither God nor the Bible has a part in either.

 

[bgwilkinson]

Hyles knew how to draw a crowd through his charisma. Charisma will usually keep people in as well.

Schaap knew how to draw a crowd through schemes and marketing. Those won't keep people in.

Odd how neither God nor the Bible has a part in either.

Yes both methods and men did not need or depend on God for results.

 

[Norefund]

Those HBHS student numbers look pretty high. Also, I thought that attendance at FBC increased during the Schaap era making the new auditorium a priority?

Jack Hyles also had 2 advantages over Jack Schaap. JH had almost 3 decades of hero worship and no social media. Jh also "built" the church and JS inherited it.

I also found it amusing that in the OP used Dr for Jack Hyles but not for Jack Schaap when they both had the same title through "honorary" degrees.  Neither had an earned Doctorate and neither should have used the title.

 

[Walt]

I find it interesting to contrast how Jack Hyles compared to Jack Schaap in how he handled his battles...

In the late 1980's, when all of the allegations surfaced, Jack Hyles played to his base -  came out strong KJO, etc.... He ended his life with his church / ministry largely intact.  The college probably had 2,000 students, and Hammond Baptist had well over 1,000 students.

Contrast that to Jack Schaap -  when he first ran into difficulties, it was because his "base" was concerned about this stance on the King James Bible... instead of "playing to his base", he went the opposite extreme, making derogatory statements to and about Russell Anderson and many other.  He began to go to the opposite extreme, praising and fellowshipping with CCM type churches  (ie Pastor G, Pastor Meeks, etc).

Thoughts?

It's an interesting thought.

 

[RAIDER]

I'm sure some would disagree, but I never looked at Dr. Hyles as arrogant.  He always seemed to remember from whence he came.  My opinion of Jack Schaap was totally opposite.  I viewed him as cocky and arrogant.  He seemed to have the attitude "I'm going to take this thing to the next level.  I'm first class.  I'm a deep, philosophical thinker."  JMO!

 

[Walt]

I'm sure some would disagree, but I never looked at Dr. Hyles as arrogant.  He always seemed to remember from whence he came.  My opinion of Jack Schaap was totally opposite.  I viewed him as cocky and arrogant.  He seemed to have the attitude "I'm going to take this thing to the next level.  I'm first class.  I'm a deep, philosophical thinker."  JMO!

I think that in his messages, JS came across as arrogant. He'd claim to have some secret knowledge because of his studies, or else a private conversation with JH.  I don't recall JH coming across IN HIS PREACHING as arrogant.

However, in how he treated others, that's a different thing.  At a pastor's school, after an excellent piano solo by a young man, Dr Hyles called piano playing "effeminate" and "sissified" - and a talent that could have been used to God's glory was snuffed out. Moreover, others heard and repeated the comment. A friend of mine was a talented pianist, but was likewise mocked by someone copying JH (his idol), and so the young man gave up.

When JH flew to a scheduled meeting, he was not met by anyone from the host church. He called the church, got hold of the young pastor and told him that he was bunglingly inefficient.  The pastor said that according to the schedule they were given, JH was arriving later. This only provoked JH to  greater rage, claiming that his secretary did not make errors like that.

This is arrogance, in my book.

(It turned out later that JH secretary had indeed made an error and sent the wrong schedule to the church).

 

[Twisted]

(It turned out later that JH secretary had indeed made an error and sent the wrong schedule to the church).

Did they ever find her body?

 

[prophet]

I'm sure some would disagree, but I never looked at Dr. Hyles as arrogant.  He always seemed to remember from whence he came.  My opinion of Jack Schaap was totally opposite.  I viewed him as cocky and arrogant.  He seemed to have the attitude "I'm going to take this thing to the next level.  I'm first class.  I'm a deep, philosophical thinker."  JMO!

I think that in his messages, JS came across as arrogant. He'd claim to have some secret knowledge because of his studies, or else a private conversation with JH.  I don't recall JH coming across IN HIS PREACHING as arrogant.

However, in how he treated others, that's a different thing.  At a pastor's school, after an excellent piano solo by a young man, Dr Hyles called piano playing "effeminate" and "sissified" - and a talent that could have been used to God's glory was snuffed out. Moreover, others heard and repeated the comment. A friend of mine was a talented pianist, but was likewise mocked by someone copying JH (his idol), and so the young man gave up.

When JH flew to a scheduled meeting, he was not met by anyone from the host church. He called the church, got hold of the young pastor and told him that he was bunglingly inefficient.  The pastor said that according to the schedule they were given, JH was arriving later. This only provoked JH to  greater rage, claiming that his secretary did not make errors like that.

This is arrogance, in my book.

(It turned out later that JH secretary had indeed made an error and sent the wrong schedule to the church).

Jack Hyles (in private), made Schaap look meek.

Sent from my H1611 using Tapatalk

 

[16KJV11]

I'm sure some would disagree, but I never looked at Dr. Hyles as arrogant.  He always seemed to remember from whence he came.  My opinion of Jack Schaap was totally opposite.  I viewed him as cocky and arrogant.  He seemed to have the attitude "I'm going to take this thing to the next level.  I'm first class.  I'm a deep, philosophical thinker."  JMO!

I think that in his messages, JS came across as arrogant. He'd claim to have some secret knowledge because of his studies, or else a private conversation with JH.  I don't recall JH coming across IN HIS PREACHING as arrogant.

However, in how he treated others, that's a different thing.  At a pastor's school, after an excellent piano solo by a young man, Dr Hyles called piano playing "effeminate" and "sissified" - and a talent that could have been used to God's glory was snuffed out. Moreover, others heard and repeated the comment. A friend of mine was a talented pianist, but was likewise mocked by someone copying JH (his idol), and so the young man gave up.

When JH flew to a scheduled meeting, he was not met by anyone from the host church. He called the church, got hold of the young pastor and told him that he was bunglingly inefficient.  The pastor said that according to the schedule they were given, JH was arriving later. This only provoked JH to  greater rage, claiming that his secretary did not make errors like that.

This is arrogance, in my book.

(It turned out later that JH secretary had indeed made an error and sent the wrong schedule to the church).

Jack Hyles (in private), made Schaap look meek.

Sent from my H1611 using Tapatalk

I have spent some solo-time with Bro. Hyles and I have never experienced him to be arrogant, demeaning or condescending in any way. 

 

[prophet]

I'm sure some would disagree, but I never looked at Dr. Hyles as arrogant.  He always seemed to remember from whence he came.  My opinion of Jack Schaap was totally opposite.  I viewed him as cocky and arrogant.  He seemed to have the attitude "I'm going to take this thing to the next level.  I'm first class.  I'm a deep, philosophical thinker."  JMO!

I think that in his messages, JS came across as arrogant. He'd claim to have some secret knowledge because of his studies, or else a private conversation with JH.  I don't recall JH coming across IN HIS PREACHING as arrogant.

However, in how he treated others, that's a different thing.  At a pastor's school, after an excellent piano solo by a young man, Dr Hyles called piano playing "effeminate" and "sissified" - and a talent that could have been used to God's glory was snuffed out. Moreover, others heard and repeated the comment. A friend of mine was a talented pianist, but was likewise mocked by someone copying JH (his idol), and so the young man gave up.

When JH flew to a scheduled meeting, he was not met by anyone from the host church. He called the church, got hold of the young pastor and told him that he was bunglingly inefficient.  The pastor said that according to the schedule they were given, JH was arriving later. This only provoked JH to  greater rage, claiming that his secretary did not make errors like that.

This is arrogance, in my book.

(It turned out later that JH secretary had indeed made an error and sent the wrong schedule to the church).

Jack Hyles (in private), made Schaap look meek.

Sent from my H1611 using Tapatalk

I have spent some solo-time with Bro. Hyles and I have never experienced him to be arrogant, demeaning or condescending in any way.

Congrats.

Not so for the rest of us.

He'd throw a little girly tirade, every time he was opposed.

Sent from my H1611 using Tapatalk

 

[16KJV11]

I'm sure some would disagree, but I never looked at Dr. Hyles as arrogant.  He always seemed to remember from whence he came.  My opinion of Jack Schaap was totally opposite.  I viewed him as cocky and arrogant.  He seemed to have the attitude "I'm going to take this thing to the next level.  I'm first class.  I'm a deep, philosophical thinker."  JMO!

I think that in his messages, JS came across as arrogant. He'd claim to have some secret knowledge because of his studies, or else a private conversation with JH.  I don't recall JH coming across IN HIS PREACHING as arrogant.

However, in how he treated others, that's a different thing.  At a pastor's school, after an excellent piano solo by a young man, Dr Hyles called piano playing "effeminate" and "sissified" - and a talent that could have been used to God's glory was snuffed out. Moreover, others heard and repeated the comment. A friend of mine was a talented pianist, but was likewise mocked by someone copying JH (his idol), and so the young man gave up.

When JH flew to a scheduled meeting, he was not met by anyone from the host church. He called the church, got hold of the young pastor and told him that he was bunglingly inefficient.  The pastor said that according to the schedule they were given, JH was arriving later. This only provoked JH to  greater rage, claiming that his secretary did not make errors like that.

This is arrogance, in my book.

(It turned out later that JH secretary had indeed made an error and sent the wrong schedule to the church).

Jack Hyles (in private), made Schaap look meek.

Sent from my H1611 using Tapatalk

I have spent some solo-time with Bro. Hyles and I have never experienced him to be arrogant, demeaning or condescending in any way.

Congrats.

Not so for the rest of us.

He'd throw a little girly tirade, every time he was opposed.

Sent from my H1611 using Tapatalk

Maybe it's because you are a compromising, lily livered, pink lemonade drinking lace on your underwear wearing, etc. etc. etc. 

 

[prophet]

I'm sure some would disagree, but I never looked at Dr. Hyles as arrogant.  He always seemed to remember from whence he came.  My opinion of Jack Schaap was totally opposite.  I viewed him as cocky and arrogant.  He seemed to have the attitude "I'm going to take this thing to the next level.  I'm first class.  I'm a deep, philosophical thinker."  JMO!

I think that in his messages, JS came across as arrogant. He'd claim to have some secret knowledge because of his studies, or else a private conversation with JH.  I don't recall JH coming across IN HIS PREACHING as arrogant.

However, in how he treated others, that's a different thing.  At a pastor's school, after an excellent piano solo by a young man, Dr Hyles called piano playing "effeminate" and "sissified" - and a talent that could have been used to God's glory was snuffed out. Moreover, others heard and repeated the comment. A friend of mine was a talented pianist, but was likewise mocked by someone copying JH (his idol), and so the young man gave up.

When JH flew to a scheduled meeting, he was not met by anyone from the host church. He called the church, got hold of the young pastor and told him that he was bunglingly inefficient.  The pastor said that according to the schedule they were given, JH was arriving later. This only provoked JH to  greater rage, claiming that his secretary did not make errors like that.

This is arrogance, in my book.

(It turned out later that JH secretary had indeed made an error and sent the wrong schedule to the church).

Jack Hyles (in private), made Schaap look meek.

Sent from my H1611 using Tapatalk

I have spent some solo-time with Bro. Hyles and I have never experienced him to be arrogant, demeaning or condescending in any way.

Congrats.

Not so for the rest of us.

He'd throw a little girly tirade, every time he was opposed.

Sent from my H1611 using Tapatalk

Maybe it's because you are a compromising, lily livered, pink lemonade drinking lace on your underwear wearing, etc. etc. etc.  [emoji14]

I once served on a bus route captained by a Marine, with a fellow Marine worker, as well.
Jack Hyles brought me up on the platform, to illustrate some sermon point, and i stood "at ease" behind him, eyes on him, because he was speaking.
At one point, he turned and looked over his shoulder, and visibly jumped a little.
Needless to say, i was razzed for intimidating an Airborne Pastor in his own pulpit...

[emoji23]

Sent from my H1611 using Tapatalk

 

[16KJV11]

I'm sure some would disagree, but I never looked at Dr. Hyles as arrogant.  He always seemed to remember from whence he came.  My opinion of Jack Schaap was totally opposite.  I viewed him as cocky and arrogant.  He seemed to have the attitude "I'm going to take this thing to the next level.  I'm first class.  I'm a deep, philosophical thinker."  JMO!

I think that in his messages, JS came across as arrogant. He'd claim to have some secret knowledge because of his studies, or else a private conversation with JH.  I don't recall JH coming across IN HIS PREACHING as arrogant.

However, in how he treated others, that's a different thing.  At a pastor's school, after an excellent piano solo by a young man, Dr Hyles called piano playing "effeminate" and "sissified" - and a talent that could have been used to God's glory was snuffed out. Moreover, others heard and repeated the comment. A friend of mine was a talented pianist, but was likewise mocked by someone copying JH (his idol), and so the young man gave up.

When JH flew to a scheduled meeting, he was not met by anyone from the host church. He called the church, got hold of the young pastor and told him that he was bunglingly inefficient.  The pastor said that according to the schedule they were given, JH was arriving later. This only provoked JH to  greater rage, claiming that his secretary did not make errors like that.

This is arrogance, in my book.

(It turned out later that JH secretary had indeed made an error and sent the wrong schedule to the church).

Jack Hyles (in private), made Schaap look meek.

Sent from my H1611 using Tapatalk

I have spent some solo-time with Bro. Hyles and I have never experienced him to be arrogant, demeaning or condescending in any way.

Congrats.

Not so for the rest of us.

He'd throw a little girly tirade, every time he was opposed.

Sent from my H1611 using Tapatalk

Maybe it's because you are a compromising, lily livered, pink lemonade drinking lace on your underwear wearing, etc. etc. etc.  [emoji14]

I once served on a bus route captained by a Marine, with a fellow Marine worker, as well.
Jack Hyles brought me up on the platform, to illustrate some sermon point, and i stood "at ease" behind him, eyes on him, because he was speaking.
At one point, he turned and looked over his shoulder, and visibly jumped a little.
Needless to say, i was razzed for intimidating an Airborne Pastor in his own pulpit...

[emoji23]

Sent from my H1611 using Tapatalk

Good story!

 

[RAIDER]

However, in how he treated others, that's a different thing.  At a pastor's school, after an excellent piano solo by a young man, Dr Hyles called piano playing "effeminate" and "sissified" - and a talent that could have been used to God's glory was snuffed out. Moreover, others heard and repeated the comment. A friend of mine was a talented pianist, but was likewise mocked by someone copying JH (his idol), and so the young man gave up.

Walt, you may have a great sense of humor, but I haven't seen it much on the FFF.  Dr. Hyles loved to tease and joke.  What you are describing as a hateful, serious comment was nothing more than a moment of teasing. 

 

[Rogue]

JACK ALLAN SCHAAP
Register Number: 12409-027
Age: 60
Race: White
Sex: Male
Located at: Ashland FCI
Release Date: 04/20/2023

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Walt:
However, in how he treated others, that's a different thing.  At a pastor's school, after an excellent piano solo by a young man, Dr Hyles called piano playing "effeminate" and "sissified" - and a talent that could have been used to God's glory was snuffed out. Moreover, others heard and repeated the comment. A friend of mine was a talented pianist, but was likewise mocked by someone copying JH (his idol), and so the young man gave up.

I believe this was done in a joking manner. Dr Hyles (unlike Walt ?) was known for his great sense of humor.