Dr. Evans

[WESLEY]

Does anyone know why Joy left the mission field?  Is she and her husband still together?

Just asking... it just seems like this was suppressed for 30 years, and wondering why all of a sudden it's coming to the surface.

I know... I'm about to be villified for even asking this...

 

[Baptist City Holdout]

Does anyone know why Joy left the mission field?  Is she and her husband still together?

Just asking... it just seems like this was suppressed for 30 years, and wondering why all of a sudden it's coming to the surface.

I know... I'm about to be villified for even asking this...

There was no "behind the scenes" reason for them to come back to the states. All was well in the transfer of ministries.

 

[WESLEY]

Does anyone know why Joy left the mission field?  Is she and her husband still together?

Just asking... it just seems like this was suppressed for 30 years, and wondering why all of a sudden it's coming to the surface.

I know... I'm about to be villified for even asking this...

There was no "behind the scenes" reason for them to come back to the states. All was well in the transfer of ministries.

SO -  she is still married, and she and Jeff are still in the ministry?

 

[prophet]

Sword, I have always enjoyed your posts; however, to write that it is "all water under the bridge", is perhaps an unintended insensitive comment.  It is SO much more than that to any victim of abuse.

Thanks you JO.

You make a good point, to the victims and their families it is history that likely haunts them to this day. I did not intend to minimize that in any way. The effects of these types of crimes, on young people, can last a lifetime.

For Dave Hyles they are "alleged" crimes that he has never answered for and should have went to jail for.

My point is for Dr. Evans these are memories I'm sure he wants to forget about and old wounds he does not want to re-open. After 40 years there is not much he can or likely will ever will do. If Joy had spoke out as soon as she turned 18 things might have been different. I did not mean to imply the past is the past for the victims, I was just saying for Dr. Evans I'm sure at this point it's all in the past.

I am sure that Dr. Evans would like to forget. I doubt he is going to do anything at his age but how does one know that his daughter was raped at age 15 by the Pastor's son and be part of the cover up, draw a paycheck from the ministry responsible and bask in the adulation that this ministry gave him.  He continues in sit in the pew and say nothing while his daughter works to have the law changed. This is beyond anything I can comprehend.

I have to agree with you on this thread.

I can't fathom not wanting to kill Jack over this, much less Dave

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[prophet]

Sword, if I recall correctly, I believe you work with victims of abuse.  I've never been sexually abused, but I have witnessed a pre-teen girl's video where she describes what was done to her.  I didn't vomit, but I should have.  I was angry when her perpetrator's jail time was not immediate, especially since he abused almost everyone in his family, and they all thought they were the only ones.  They kept it a secret until they could no longer.  I believe some continued the cycle.

For all the victims, whether male or female, do NOT keep silent.  Churches and those in authority should be encouraging you to come forward if you are abused.  By law, I believe they must tell.  Instead, I'm afraid most people just want things like that to go away.  Of course, it never can completely.  Some turn their anger and shame inward and become addicts.  Others use it, as Joy has, to change laws and tell their story.  God does not blame the victim, and anyone who does should re-examine their life carefully.

Over the years, I have talked to one too many grown women who were assaulted by a relative or someone at church.  It would be a wonderful thing if Hyles Anderson College would bite the bullet and try to teach classes making others aware of the signs of abuse and ALL churches should be doing background checks on anyone they employ.  It's not rocket science and can be done easily.

As far as I can tell, while Jack Hyles did not publicly condone that behavior, he certainly seemed to believe in sweeping things under the rug.  Those rugs are fraying and with the advent of the internet the stuff under the rug is seeping out.

Ummm...Jack Hyles encouraged the members to give A.V. Ballinger a standing ovation.

Don't bring up that situation, it isn't relevant.

AV was our neighbor and friend, and was not tried for rape.
My little sister was his daughter's best friend.
His boys, both the natural and adopted, are my friends.
None of us believe that this was anything other than a travesty.
BTW, we know the scum "victims" as well.

This was my neighborhood, my ss bus, my good friends.

I've had plenty of opportunity to observe AV's family, for many years, and I see no evidence of abuse in their lives.

This is a world away from the cover up of Dave and His crew's sexploits.

You can disagree, because there was a conviction, but you won't convince anyone who grew up on Hammond's North Side in the 70's and 80's that AV was a perv.

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[Phooey-dini]

Sword, if I recall correctly, I believe you work with victims of abuse.  I've never been sexually abused, but I have witnessed a pre-teen girl's video where she describes what was done to her.  I didn't vomit, but I should have.  I was angry when her perpetrator's jail time was not immediate, especially since he abused almost everyone in his family, and they all thought they were the only ones.  They kept it a secret until they could no longer.  I believe some continued the cycle.

For all the victims, whether male or female, do NOT keep silent.  Churches and those in authority should be encouraging you to come forward if you are abused.  By law, I believe they must tell.  Instead, I'm afraid most people just want things like that to go away.  Of course, it never can completely.  Some turn their anger and shame inward and become addicts.  Others use it, as Joy has, to change laws and tell their story.  God does not blame the victim, and anyone who does should re-examine their life carefully.

Over the years, I have talked to one too many grown women who were assaulted by a relative or someone at church.  It would be a wonderful thing if Hyles Anderson College would bite the bullet and try to teach classes making others aware of the signs of abuse and ALL churches should be doing background checks on anyone they employ.  It's not rocket science and can be done easily.

As far as I can tell, while Jack Hyles did not publicly condone that behavior, he certainly seemed to believe in sweeping things under the rug.  Those rugs are fraying and with the advent of the internet the stuff under the rug is seeping out.

Ummm...Jack Hyles encouraged the members to give A.V. Ballinger a standing ovation.

Don't bring up that situation, it isn't relevant.

AV was our neighbor and friend, and was not tried for rape.
My little sister was his daughter's best friend.
His boys, both the natural and adopted, are my friends.
None of us believe that this was anything other than a travesty.
BTW, we know the scum "victims" as well.

This was my neighborhood, my ss bus, my good friends.

I've had plenty of opportunity to observe AV's family, for many years, and I see no evidence of abuse in their lives.

This is a world away from the cover up of Dave and His crew's sexploits.

You can disagree, because there was a conviction, but you won't convince anyone who grew up on Hammond's North Side in the 70's and 80's that AV was a perv.

Sent from my H1611 using Tapatalk

Whatever may be your position on Ballenger, it probably was less than helpful to trot out Mel Schraven as part of a fundraiser in support of AV. Circa 1993 at the Jack DeCoster Mess Hall.



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[prophet]

Sword, if I recall correctly, I believe you work with victims of abuse.  I've never been sexually abused, but I have witnessed a pre-teen girl's video where she describes what was done to her.  I didn't vomit, but I should have.  I was angry when her perpetrator's jail time was not immediate, especially since he abused almost everyone in his family, and they all thought they were the only ones.  They kept it a secret until they could no longer.  I believe some continued the cycle.

For all the victims, whether male or female, do NOT keep silent.  Churches and those in authority should be encouraging you to come forward if you are abused.  By law, I believe they must tell.  Instead, I'm afraid most people just want things like that to go away.  Of course, it never can completely.  Some turn their anger and shame inward and become addicts.  Others use it, as Joy has, to change laws and tell their story.  God does not blame the victim, and anyone who does should re-examine their life carefully.

Over the years, I have talked to one too many grown women who were assaulted by a relative or someone at church.  It would be a wonderful thing if Hyles Anderson College would bite the bullet and try to teach classes making others aware of the signs of abuse and ALL churches should be doing background checks on anyone they employ.  It's not rocket science and can be done easily.

As far as I can tell, while Jack Hyles did not publicly condone that behavior, he certainly seemed to believe in sweeping things under the rug.  Those rugs are fraying and with the advent of the internet the stuff under the rug is seeping out.

Ummm...Jack Hyles encouraged the members to give A.V. Ballinger a standing ovation.

Don't bring up that situation, it isn't relevant.

AV was our neighbor and friend, and was not tried for rape.
My little sister was his daughter's best friend.
His boys, both the natural and adopted, are my friends.
None of us believe that this was anything other than a travesty.
BTW, we know the scum "victims" as well.

This was my neighborhood, my ss bus, my good friends.

I've had plenty of opportunity to observe AV's family, for many years, and I see no evidence of abuse in their lives.

This is a world away from the cover up of Dave and His crew's sexploits.

You can disagree, because there was a conviction, but you won't convince anyone who grew up on Hammond's North Side in the 70's and 80's that AV was a perv.

Sent from my H1611 using Tapatalk

Whatever may be your position on Ballenger, it probably was less than helpful to trot out Mel Schraven as part of a fundraiser in support of AV. Circa 1993 at the Jack DeCoster Mess Hall.



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I agree.

Was this targeting HAC students, for donations???

FTR, Hyles didn't handle this well.

It shouldn't have become a circus, triggering the competitive nature in local gov to "get a conviction" regardless of the appalling lack of evidence.

BTW, Great name!
[emoji12]

 

[Phooey-dini]

Sword, if I recall correctly, I believe you work with victims of abuse.  I've never been sexually abused, but I have witnessed a pre-teen girl's video where she describes what was done to her.  I didn't vomit, but I should have.  I was angry when her perpetrator's jail time was not immediate, especially since he abused almost everyone in his family, and they all thought they were the only ones.  They kept it a secret until they could no longer.  I believe some continued the cycle.

For all the victims, whether male or female, do NOT keep silent.  Churches and those in authority should be encouraging you to come forward if you are abused.  By law, I believe they must tell.  Instead, I'm afraid most people just want things like that to go away.  Of course, it never can completely.  Some turn their anger and shame inward and become addicts.  Others use it, as Joy has, to change laws and tell their story.  God does not blame the victim, and anyone who does should re-examine their life carefully.

Over the years, I have talked to one too many grown women who were assaulted by a relative or someone at church.  It would be a wonderful thing if Hyles Anderson College would bite the bullet and try to teach classes making others aware of the signs of abuse and ALL churches should be doing background checks on anyone they employ.  It's not rocket science and can be done easily.

As far as I can tell, while Jack Hyles did not publicly condone that behavior, he certainly seemed to believe in sweeping things under the rug.  Those rugs are fraying and with the advent of the internet the stuff under the rug is seeping out.

Ummm...Jack Hyles encouraged the members to give A.V. Ballinger a standing ovation.

Don't bring up that situation, it isn't relevant.

AV was our neighbor and friend, and was not tried for rape.
My little sister was his daughter's best friend.
His boys, both the natural and adopted, are my friends.
None of us believe that this was anything other than a travesty.
BTW, we know the scum "victims" as well.

This was my neighborhood, my ss bus, my good friends.

I've had plenty of opportunity to observe AV's family, for many years, and I see no evidence of abuse in their lives.

This is a world away from the cover up of Dave and His crew's sexploits.

You can disagree, because there was a conviction, but you won't convince anyone who grew up on Hammond's North Side in the 70's and 80's that AV was a perv.

Sent from my H1611 using Tapatalk

Whatever may be your position on Ballenger, it probably was less than helpful to trot out Mel Schraven as part of a fundraiser in support of AV. Circa 1993 at the Jack DeCoster Mess Hall.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I agree.

Was this targeting HAC students, for donations???

FTR, Hyles didn't handle this well.

It shouldn't have become a circus, triggering the competitive nature in local gov to "get a conviction" regardless of the appalling lack of evidence.

BTW, Great name!
[emoji12]

Thanks, I figured it would be a hit!

The banquet fundraiser was as odd as all getout, with a menagerie of characters taking the podium such as Hyles, Wes Miller, Mel S., "Bubba Jones/Bucky Tucker" (what's the diff), David Gibbs, etc.

A circus it was, no doubt. I'm told by a reliable source that even Judge Clements was unsurprised at the conviction of AVB, largely because of the cultic zombie-like behavior of FBCH  members who were in attendance at the courthouse proceedings.



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[prophet]

Sword, if I recall correctly, I believe you work with victims of abuse.  I've never been sexually abused, but I have witnessed a pre-teen girl's video where she describes what was done to her.  I didn't vomit, but I should have.  I was angry when her perpetrator's jail time was not immediate, especially since he abused almost everyone in his family, and they all thought they were the only ones.  They kept it a secret until they could no longer.  I believe some continued the cycle.

For all the victims, whether male or female, do NOT keep silent.  Churches and those in authority should be encouraging you to come forward if you are abused.  By law, I believe they must tell.  Instead, I'm afraid most people just want things like that to go away.  Of course, it never can completely.  Some turn their anger and shame inward and become addicts.  Others use it, as Joy has, to change laws and tell their story.  God does not blame the victim, and anyone who does should re-examine their life carefully.

Over the years, I have talked to one too many grown women who were assaulted by a relative or someone at church.  It would be a wonderful thing if Hyles Anderson College would bite the bullet and try to teach classes making others aware of the signs of abuse and ALL churches should be doing background checks on anyone they employ.  It's not rocket science and can be done easily.

As far as I can tell, while Jack Hyles did not publicly condone that behavior, he certainly seemed to believe in sweeping things under the rug.  Those rugs are fraying and with the advent of the internet the stuff under the rug is seeping out.

Ummm...Jack Hyles encouraged the members to give A.V. Ballinger a standing ovation.

Don't bring up that situation, it isn't relevant.

AV was our neighbor and friend, and was not tried for rape.
My little sister was his daughter's best friend.
His boys, both the natural and adopted, are my friends.
None of us believe that this was anything other than a travesty.
BTW, we know the scum "victims" as well.

This was my neighborhood, my ss bus, my good friends.

I've had plenty of opportunity to observe AV's family, for many years, and I see no evidence of abuse in their lives.

This is a world away from the cover up of Dave and His crew's sexploits.

You can disagree, because there was a conviction, but you won't convince anyone who grew up on Hammond's North Side in the 70's and 80's that AV was a perv.

Sent from my H1611 using Tapatalk

Whatever may be your position on Ballenger, it probably was less than helpful to trot out Mel Schraven as part of a fundraiser in support of AV. Circa 1993 at the Jack DeCoster Mess Hall.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I agree.

Was this targeting HAC students, for donations???

FTR, Hyles didn't handle this well.

It shouldn't have become a circus, triggering the competitive nature in local gov to "get a conviction" regardless of the appalling lack of evidence.

BTW, Great name!
[emoji12]

Thanks, I figured it would be a hit!

The banquet fundraiser was as odd as all getout, with a menagerie of characters taking the podium such as Hyles, Wes Miller, Mel S., "Bubba Jones/Bucky Tucker" (what's the diff), David Gibbs, etc.

A circus it was, no doubt. I'm told by a reliable source that even Judge Clements was unsurprised at the conviction of AVB, largely because of the cultic zombie-like behavior of FBCH  members who were in attendance at the courthouse proceedings.



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Exactly.

You get in a pissing contest with the State, and you lose.

The whole thing reminded me of the Scopes Monkey Trial, where some long-winded,  bigoted, bloated, bloviating, Southern "Preacher" tried to make a circus of the trial, and set the cause of Christ back centuries.

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[Phooey-dini]

I understand Joy Evans is very active in trying to get laws changed regarding the statute of limitations regarding victims of rape and/or clergy abuse.  I also believe she has not kept silent about Dave. See change.org.

Has Dr. Evans ever publicly addressed it?

Fwiw, I find it impossible to have any respect for Evans as a Christian leader in light of his lack of action to at least warn others about Dave's sexual proclivities and crimes.

Furthermore, as far as I know he still thinks Big Mac Jack was the greatest Christian since Paul the Apostle, too. It's beyond the pale & reprehensible.

Goes to show how brainwashed a grown man can be by someone he finds nearly infallible.


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[Jo]

Joy spoke out before she turned 18.
[/quote]

This has stuck with me.  I don't doubt what you've said.  I'm just confused over the statute of limitations. 

As I scan the internet, it appears that in IL the statute of limitations on these types of crimes is 2 years for personal injury but 5 years for injury to property.  That is wacko!

 

[sword]

I understand Joy Evans is very active in trying to get laws changed regarding the statute of limitations regarding victims of rape and/or clergy abuse.  I also believe she has not kept silent about Dave. See change.org.

Has Dr. Evans ever publicly addressed it?

Fwiw, I find it impossible to have any respect for Evans as a Christian leader in light of his lack of action to at least warn others about Dave's sexual proclivities and crimes.
Furthermore, as far as I know he still thinks Big Mac Jack was the greatest Christian since Paul the Apostle, too. It's beyond the pale & reprehensible.
Goes to show how brainwashed a grown man can be by someone he finds nearly infallible.
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There are many who still believe Jack Hyles knew nothing about what had gone on until after Dave had left Hammond. I have heard preachers say it all came out when Dave got in trouble at Miller Road. They think Big Jack was left in the dark.

 

[Twisted]

They think Big Jack was left in the dark.

If he didn't see it, it didn't happen.

 

[Phooey-dini]

I understand Joy Evans is very active in trying to get laws changed regarding the statute of limitations regarding victims of rape and/or clergy abuse.  I also believe she has not kept silent about Dave. See change.org.

Has Dr. Evans ever publicly addressed it?

Fwiw, I find it impossible to have any respect for Evans as a Christian leader in light of his lack of action to at least warn others about Dave's sexual proclivities and crimes.
Furthermore, as far as I know he still thinks Big Mac Jack was the greatest Christian since Paul the Apostle, too. It's beyond the pale & reprehensible.
Goes to show how brainwashed a grown man can be by someone he finds nearly infallible.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There are many who still believe Jack Hyles knew nothing about what had gone on until after Dave had left Hammond. I have heard preachers say it all came out when Dave got in trouble at Miller Road. They think Big Jack was left in the dark.

Right. That was all strategic. Shame on Big Mac Jack for unleashing that predator on so many who were entrusted to his spiritual care.


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[TidesofTruth]

I understand Joy Evans is very active in trying to get laws changed regarding the statute of limitations regarding victims of rape and/or clergy abuse.  I also believe she has not kept silent about Dave. See change.org.

Has Dr. Evans ever publicly addressed it?

Fwiw, I find it impossible to have any respect for Evans as a Christian leader in light of his lack of action to at least warn others about Dave's sexual proclivities and crimes.
Furthermore, as far as I know he still thinks Big Mac Jack was the greatest Christian since Paul the Apostle, too. It's beyond the pale & reprehensible.
Goes to show how brainwashed a grown man can be by someone he finds nearly infallible.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There are many who still believe Jack Hyles knew nothing about what had gone on until after Dave had left Hammond. I have heard preachers say it all came out when Dave got in trouble at Miller Road. They think Big Jack was left in the dark.

I would love if this were true.  It simply isn't.  It simply blew up so big with so many involve it could no longer be hidden and was further complicated by what had happened in Hammond and how that was handled. The only answer of understanding (But without excuse) is Churches/people did not expose sin during those years in most any case.  Pregnant girls were most always shipped off to unwed mother's homes and wayward boys were shipped off to the military to make a man out of them.  To be honest in most every kind of Baptistic/Reformed/Bible type church sin simply was covered.  It wasn't thought to be nefarious.  It was thought to protect victims as well as give a chance for recovery of the sinner.  IT JUST WASN'T DONE THAT WAY back then.    Even though it was common to handle things that way, IT WAS ABSOLUTELY WRONG!  God gave methods for restoral and church discipline and many of the men who are so charged to day for not doing it right were not exposed to the correct teaching in these matters.  Doesn't excuse the sin.  Doesn't mitigate the reaping. 

During the great exodus of 88-92 many FBCH people who left went to local GARB churches.  But guess what?  They weren't doing it right either and most every single one of them had little scandals going on at the same time, many times just as grievous and they did not discipline either but it was not near as impactful as an FBCH sin.  The reason I state this is that generation did not teach nor practice church discipline in most every case.  On occasion you would here of some "wacky" church who made a pregnant girl stand before the congregation and confess her sin.  Never heard of the boy having to do this.  And none of that had anything to do with proper church discipline either.  It always had a prurient ick to it.

It is very sad that so many had to be hurt before a realization came that we had to reexamine what scripture tells us concerning these matters and repent of not following God's ways.

 

[Jo]

I understand Joy Evans is very active in trying to get laws changed regarding the statute of limitations regarding victims of rape and/or clergy abuse.  I also believe she has not kept silent about Dave. See change.org.

Has Dr. Evans ever publicly addressed it?

Fwiw, I find it impossible to have any respect for Evans as a Christian leader in light of his lack of action to at least warn others about Dave's sexual proclivities and crimes.
Furthermore, as far as I know he still thinks Big Mac Jack was the greatest Christian since Paul the Apostle, too. It's beyond the pale & reprehensible.
Goes to show how brainwashed a grown man can be by someone he finds nearly infallible.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There are many who still believe Jack Hyles knew nothing about what had gone on until after Dave had left Hammond. I have heard preachers say it all came out when Dave got in trouble at Miller Road. They think Big Jack was left in the dark.

In light of the Hawaii trip Big Jack took with his female staff where his wife was not present, I'm starting to realize Big Jack helped set the stage for Joy and many other victims.  Dave was not the only one in the family who victimized young women/girls. There was a pattern.  Big Jack's son in law ran off with a 17 year old girl prior to Miller Road.  Dave continued his pattern. Then, of course, Schaap came along.

Don't listen to gossip, though. Just bring the sheep in and let the wolves prey.


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[bgwilkinson]

I understand Joy Evans is very active in trying to get laws changed regarding the statute of limitations regarding victims of rape and/or clergy abuse.  I also believe she has not kept silent about Dave. See change.org.

Has Dr. Evans ever publicly addressed it?

Fwiw, I find it impossible to have any respect for Evans as a Christian leader in light of his lack of action to at least warn others about Dave's sexual proclivities and crimes.
Furthermore, as far as I know he still thinks Big Mac Jack was the greatest Christian since Paul the Apostle, too. It's beyond the pale & reprehensible.
Goes to show how brainwashed a grown man can be by someone he finds nearly infallible.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There are many who still believe Jack Hyles knew nothing about what had gone on until after Dave had left Hammond. I have heard preachers say it all came out when Dave got in trouble at Miller Road. They think Big Jack was left in the dark.

In light of the Hawaii trip Big Jack took with his female staff where his wife was not present, I'm starting to realize Big Jack helped set the stage for Joy and many other victims.  Dave was not the only one in the family who victimized young women/girls. There was a pattern.  Big Jack's son in law ran off with a 17 year old girl prior to Miller Road.  Dave continued his pattern. Then, of course, Schaap came along.

Don't listen to gossip, though. Just bring the sheep in and let the wolves prey.


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Here is where you get the rest of the story on the infamous Smith brothers, one of whom is Becky Hyles Smith's husband.
Notice the modern tithe doctrine taken to the extreme and the Man of Godism that defines much of what is at the heart of so much evil in IFB churches. It goes back more than 40 years in the Hyles family.

https://www.dmagazine.com/publications/d-magazine/1988/september/gods-man-savior-or-seducer/

This thread from 2015 gives the perspective from the '70s to the present time.

http://www.fundamentalforums.org/hyles-anderson-college/was-what-schaap-did-really-that-bad/

 

[Jo]

From The D Magazine article: 

​

They claim that Smith often advises members not to inform spouses of serious transgressions and then warns the congregation that he ?has something on everyone.? And, it is said, several trustees and deacons are linked with the Smiths or the church in business or employment: trustee and builder John Ramer has sold, at a discount, expensive homes to Terry and Ruthie Smith, Tim Smith, and Roger Hagmann-and he is said to be the only member to have his receipts for tax-deductible contributions written out personally by Terry Smith; trustee Joe Pederson is Terry Smith?s personal accountant; three deacons have wives or relatives who teach at the church, as does business manager Hagmann; deacon Don Nix is Terry Smith?s dentist, and so on.

....And why would a Dallas businessman and deacon declare. ?I don?t care if Terry Smith has had ten or fifteen affairs, he?s still God?s Man??"

Wow!  I lived in the area in the 80s and never read this article.  The similarities with Dave, Schaap and the Smiths are very interesting.  Methinks they learned from each other.  Scream at the congregation, tell them to sacrifice, try to have sex with any woman who comes near you while the sheeple pay their tithes, which you control!

 

[Twisted]

....And why would a Dallas businessman and deacon declare. ?I don?t care if Terry Smith has had ten or fifteen affairs, he?s still God?s Man??"

The same kind of sickos as the ones I heard talking at Pastors School after DH was exposed in Garland who said, "I would still want him as my pastor"

 

[TidesofTruth]

....And why would a Dallas businessman and deacon declare. ?I don?t care if Terry Smith has had ten or fifteen affairs, he?s still God?s Man??"

The same kind of sickos as the ones I heard talking at Pastors School after DH was exposed in Garland who said, "I would still want him as my pastor"

Furthermore I wouldn't want that man to be a deacon.  He is just as unqualified.