Did it really harm us?

[RAIDER]

I think most everyone on the HAC FFF is critical of HAC/FBCH to some degree.  Some are extremely bitter, while others have realized lesser faults.  The thought for this thread came from a post someone made on another thread.  The thread was asking about HAC sermons that changed your life.  Here is the post"


"What a Day" by Jack Schaap.

Not because it was some great homiletic or theological masterpiece, but because as a young teen it instilled in me a love for preaching. (at least what I considered it then) I would not put together or preach a similar sermon now, but a fourteen year old boy could have been listening to much worse things. I listened to that sermon every time I got in the car, before I went to sleep at night and many times in between. I then began to listen to every 'preachin' tape I could get in my hands.

My philosophy has changed, my desires have changed, but I really believe falling in love with that sermon changed the direction of my life. (humanly speaking...of course)

I am approaching this thread from the angle of a young person attending HAC for four years and graduating.  Regardless of our current level of criticism, did the time there really harm us?  Did it lessen our walk with Christ?  Did it make us a bad testimony?  Did it instill in us heresy?  Did we leave HAC with a closer walk with God or further from Him?

What say ye, Hacker Nation? 

 

[Exell]

Absolutely, it could have and did harm some.

I fell in love with a man and the atmosphere he created. That preaching tape was anything but sound biblical exposition. By God's grace that led me to a love for true preaching and biblical studies, but for many it didn't, and they are gone.

I also remember sitting in the Dean of Men's office, he was my ministry leader at the time. We were simply shooting the bull, and I mentioned a bible verse I had read that morning in my devotions, Lamentations 5:21 "Turn thou us unto thee, O LORD, and we shall be turned". I casually remarked something to the effect of, "Wouldn't be nice if the Lord would just turn our hearts to him, to take over our life and just live through us".
This is simple, basic Christianity. This is grace. This is the Christ life. And yet as a pastors son and bible college student, the idea was completely foreign to me. I was a defeated, frustrated Christian. What the Dean of Men said to me certainly didn't help, and it revealed he didn't get it either. He told me I was looking for 'a cop out', that I didn't want to discipline myself, that I didn't want to learn self control.

I walked out of that office with a faulty view of God, Christ, and grace and into a spiritual dark hole from which it took years to come out.

Btw, I now know of  grace, a wonderful divine cop out, and I'm strong in the Lord and in the power of His might...not my self discipline.

So yes, it did hurt many....namely the defeated, unhappy frustrated masses that still sit under the system.

 

[RAIDER]

Absolutely, it could have and did harm some.

I fell in love with a man and the atmosphere he created. That preaching tape was anything but sound biblical exposition. By God's grace that led me to a love for true preaching and biblical studies, but for many it didn't, and they are gone.

I also remember sitting in the Dean of Men's office, he was my ministry leader at the time. We were simply shooting the bull, and I mentioned a bible verse I had read that morning in my devotions, Lamentations 5:21 "Turn thou us unto thee, O LORD, and we shall be turned". I casually remarked something to the effect of, "Wouldn't be nice if the Lord would just turn our hearts to him, to take over our life and just live through us".
This is simple, basic Christianity. This is grace. This is the Christ life. And yet as a pastors son and bible college student, the idea was completely foreign to me. I was a defeated, frustrated Christian. What the Dean of Men said to me certainly didn't help, and it revealed he didn't get it either. He told me I was looking for 'a cop out', that I didn't want to discipline myself, that I didn't want to learn self control.

I walked out of that office with a faulty view of God, Christ, and grace and into a spiritual dark hole from which it took years to come out.

Btw, I now know of  grace, a wonderful divine cop out, and I'm strong in the Lord and in the power of His might...not my self discipline.

So yes, it did hurt many....namely the defeated, unhappy frustrated masses that still sit under the system.

While I definitely see your issue on that day, are you telling me that his comment on that day sent you into a "spiritual dark hole from which it took years to come out"?  Seems a bit extreme.

 

[Bruh]

I was there as a kid my dad in HAC. My oldest brother was 10 I was 6 and my other brother was 4 and my mom had one more while we were there.

I remember my mom telling my grandmother on the phone, we don't see him anymore.

Looking back, no I don't believe being there helped my parents nor do I think that it hurt.

My parents have been married 40 years and if they live long enough it will be 40 more.

 

[Exell]

Absolutely, it could have and did harm some.

I fell in love with a man and the atmosphere he created. That preaching tape was anything but sound biblical exposition. By God's grace that led me to a love for true preaching and biblical studies, but for many it didn't, and they are gone.

I also remember sitting in the Dean of Men's office, he was my ministry leader at the time. We were simply shooting the bull, and I mentioned a bible verse I had read that morning in my devotions, Lamentations 5:21 "Turn thou us unto thee, O LORD, and we shall be turned". I casually remarked something to the effect of, "Wouldn't be nice if the Lord would just turn our hearts to him, to take over our life and just live through us".
This is simple, basic Christianity. This is grace. This is the Christ life. And yet as a pastors son and bible college student, the idea was completely foreign to me. I was a defeated, frustrated Christian. What the Dean of Men said to me certainly didn't help, and it revealed he didn't get it either. He told me I was looking for 'a cop out', that I didn't want to discipline myself, that I didn't want to learn self control.

I walked out of that office with a faulty view of God, Christ, and grace and into a spiritual dark hole from which it took years to come out.

Btw, I now know of  grace, a wonderful divine cop out, and I'm strong in the Lord and in the power of His might...not my self discipline.

So yes, it did hurt many....namely the defeated, unhappy frustrated masses that still sit under the system.

While I definitely see your issue on that day, are you telling me that his comment on that day sent you into a "spiritual dark hole from which it took years to come out"?  Seems a bit extreme.

Seems a bit extreme?

You must not understand how a respected teacher informs the worldview of his students.

You must not understand how foundational grace is to the Christian life and the crippling effects of self sufficiency.

I replayed that conversation over and over in my head, I still remember it vividly. I was looking for grace and I was told by my spiritual leader that it didn't exist.

 

[Exell]

"While I definitely see your issue on that day"

That philosophy permeated the place...every day...for decades.

 

[kaba]

I went as an young, innocent 17 year old girl. That just wanted to love the Lord, serve him and continue to grow as a Christian. My spirit was crushed. It has altered what I have expected from my children for their lives.  Right now I am struggling with bitterness for anything HAC or for that matter IFB.

 

[Sherryh]

I went to college there and when stayed a few more years while my husband worked security. While I was there and married I did question things and my husband had no answers. Now looking back I know the answers. It did destroy some people and  they will never trust people again. Only God can heal those hearts and bend the broken.

 

[RAIDER]

I went as an young, innocent 17 year old girl. That just wanted to love the Lord, serve him and continue to grow as a Christian. My spirit was crushed. It has altered what I have expected from my children for their lives.  Right now I am struggling with bitterness for anything HAC or for that matter IFB.

kaba, I know from where you are coming.  Are you saying that the day you left HAC your walk with Christ and your Christian life were poorer than when you started?

 

[RAIDER]

While I definitely see your issue on that day, are you telling me that his comment on that day sent you into a "spiritual dark hole from which it took years to come out"?  Seems a bit extreme.

Seems a bit extreme?

You must not understand how a respected teacher informs the worldview of his students.

You must not understand how foundational grace is to the Christian life and the crippling effects of self sufficiency.

I replayed that conversation over and over in my head, I still remember it vividly. I was looking for grace and I was told by my spiritual leader that it didn't exist.

I walked the same halls of HAC that you walked.  I had ministry leaders that I also respected.  My bus division leader questioned my devotion to my bus route because I went home during the summer.  The words hurt and made me angry.  I realized that the guy was a jerk and I moved to a different ministry the following year. 

I sure wouldn't allow one statement made by someone I respected drive me into a "spiritual dark hole".

 

[Sherryh]

kaba, is it hac or is it life ? because life happens and changes without asking us. As long as you have a solid foundation which I know you have ...you have much to be thankful for my friend. You are loved by everyone that knows you...you help when there is a need. Because you helped me when I couldn't see ahead of me. Let bitterness go because it will destroy you...and you're to valuable to God and me...

 

[Smellin Coffee]

There is no right or wrong answer. I got both good and bad from the place. For me, as I look back, I think they balanced out. For some, I'm sure the pain is greater than the gain and for others, the gain was greater than the pain.

God can prophesy through a donkey so why couldn't He speak through one that is from behind a pulpit?

 

[SwampHag]

I went to HAC with a love for and a desire to serve God,

I left HAC with a love for and a desire to serve Hyles/FHC/Hac/rules/man-made laws.

It took me a long time to regain my focus, so yes, I was harmed.

 

[Exell]

While I definitely see your issue on that day, are you telling me that his comment on that day sent you into a "spiritual dark hole from which it took years to come out"?  Seems a bit extreme.

Seems a bit extreme?

You must not understand how a respected teacher informs the worldview of his students.

You must not understand how foundational grace is to the Christian life and the crippling effects of self sufficiency.

I replayed that conversation over and over in my head, I still remember it vividly. I was looking for grace and I was told by my spiritual leader that it didn't exist.

I walked the same halls of HAC that you walked.  I had ministry leaders that I also respected.  My bus division leader questioned my devotion to my bus route because I went home during the summer.  The words hurt and made me angry.  I realized that the guy was a jerk and I moved to a different ministry the following year. 

I sure wouldn't allow one statement made by someone I respected drive me into a "spiritual dark hole".

I am not going to try and prove to you the effect his remarks made on me, but I will say you are comparing apples and oranges.

His statement directly informed my view of God, grace and the Christian life and it was egregiously wrong.

 

[RAIDER]

I went to HAC from a somewhat dead GARBC church.  My parents had instilled within me a love for God and serving him.  I matured greatly at HAC.  I developed a closer walk with God.  I developed more of a hunger for His Word.  I learned to love the down-and-outer.  I learned how to do things the "FBCH way".

I saw some students that were morons.  We called them "Hackers".  I found some staff members that loved the Lord and truly cared for me.  I found some staff members that were proud and I avoided them.  I found some student ministry leaders that were sold out to God.  I found some student ministry leaders that were idiots.  I avoided them.

I had some teachers that were committed to teaching their classes.  I had some teachers that should have not been teachers.  I did my best to avoid the second group.

I heard doctrinally sound preaching and teaching that motivated me and gave me more of a hunger for the Bible.  I heard "shock factor' teaching and preaching that made you shake your head and wonder from whence it came.  I embraced one and ignored the other.

While many of the rules and policies were but an extension of my home, there were some that made you wonder why.  I learned to exist within the system.

I met a fantastic group of friends that helped make college life fun.  I am still friends with many of them today.

I left HAC with more of a love for the Bible, more of a desire to see people come to know the Lord, more care for the unloved, and a closer walk with the Lord.

Do I look back and agree with everything?  Absolutely not!  Have things that have come out in recent years put a different spin of some things?  Absolutely!  Did HAC harm me in any way during my 4 years there?  No way!     

 

[RAIDER]

I am not going to try and prove to you the effect his remarks made on me, but I will say you are comparing apples and oranges.

His statement directly informed my view of God, grace and the Christian life and it was egregiously wrong.

All I am saying is that allowing a single statement made by the Dean of Men to impact your life for years seems strange to me.  Obviously it has. 

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=RAIDER]Did HAC harm me in any way during my 4 years there?[/quote]

*cough, cough*

[quote author=RAIDER] I learned how to do things the "FBCH way".. [/quote]

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Do I look back and agree with everything?  Absolutely not!  Have things that have come out in recent years put a different spin of some things?  Absolutely!  Did HAC harm me in any way during my 4 years there?  No way!   

Girls who were seduced by staff men might think different. Boys who were victimized in the locker room might think different. Women who married a loser because they never got to see the "real" man behind the white shirts and ties might think different. People who were kicked out because they were falsely accused or demerits for stupid stuff built up, might think different. People who were bullied might think different.

You based your feelings on your experiences which were mostly positive. There is nothing wrong with you coming out with a positive spin. However, your experiences differ than others who might not be able to come out with a positive spin. Even in instances where the same events occur, some people are better equipped physically/emotionally to deal with it than others. Take for example, hostage victims from a bank robbery where a teller was killed. One person who maybe has experience in military or just a stronger emotional state might be able to overcome the horror he witnessed much better than say, a young girl who was completely terrified during the incident. She might need counseling whereas he didn't. Both witnessed the same thing but it affected them differently.

We have to give room for both supporters and detractors from HAC to share their experiences and shouldn't defend only our personal experiences as being the only right viewpoint. (RAIDER, not saying at all that you are as you don't demonstrate this - this is simply a general statement.)

 

[kaba]

I went as an young, innocent 17 year old girl. That just wanted to love the Lord, serve him and continue to grow as a Christian. My spirit was crushed. It has altered what I have expected from my children for their lives.  Right now I am struggling with bitterness for anything HAC or for that matter IFB.

kaba, I know from where you are coming.  Are you saying that the day you left HAC your walk with Christ and your Christian life were poorer than when you started?

No, not poorer. My spirit was crushed. But yet I had the judgemental attitude, thought I knew everything and was so much more spiritual! I have to fight that to this day, and "count to 3" before I react and evaluate the situation.   I Just dont understand how we were judged on EVERY little thing we did. But yet when leaders sin, we need to forgive, forget and not gossip about it. Trying to work this out in my head about God's forgiveness. I can get over this and move on, but sometimes the pressure is just too much!

I have four children that love the Lord, and try to do what is right-for that I feel very grateful. I do feel no credit is due to HAC or FBC! I am very thankful for Godly parents that built the foundation that I need to get me through life.

 

[RAIDER]

No, not poorer. My spirit was crushed. But yet I had the judgemental attitude, thought I knew everything and was so much more spiritual! I have to fight that to this day, and "count to 3" before I react and evaluate the situation.   I Just dont understand how we were judged on EVERY little thing we did. But yet when leaders sin, we need to forgive, forget and not gossip about it. Trying to work this out in my head about God's forgiveness. I can get over this and move on, but sometimes the pressure is just too much!

I have four children that love the Lord, and try to do what is right-for that I feel very grateful. I do feel no credit is due to HAC or FBC! I am very thankful for Godly parents that built the foundation that I need to get me through life.

Thank you.