Did Christ Suffer in Hell

[Izdaari]

I think Jesus was spotted in Missouri once.  That's almost the same thing.

Missouri = Misery, just a funny spelling, so yeah, it's pretty close.

But I think that was Jes

 

[Izdaari]

Why is it so important to deny Christ went to hell?  What did he preach to them?

"Between Christ's death and resurrection, His living spirit went to the demon spirits bound in the abyss and proclaimed that, in spite of His death, He had triumphed over them. This refers to fallen angels (demons), who were permanently bound because of heinous wickedness.  The demons who are not so bound resist such sentence (cf. Luke 8:31).  In the end, they will be sent to the eternal lake of fire (Matthew 25:41; Revelation 20:10)."  John MacArthur

I do think he went to hell, but to preach "to the spirits in prison", not to suffer or to carry our sins there.

MacArthur's idea that he went to gloat to the demons about his victory seems, um, a little bizarre to me. But so do a lot of Johnny Mac's ideas.

 

[christundivided]

After watching the videos I see nothing that would change my position.  Christ went to paradise.  Who is disputing that?  He also preached to the ones in prison who were disobedient (1 Peter 3:18,19).  That is not paradise.  When the rich man lifted up his eyes in hades (hell; I won't mention the KJV) he was in torment.  Why could Christ not have gone to both places?  According to scripture He did!  Christ's soul went to hades which includes a place of torment. 

One may make light of; "What did He carry our sins in?"; but I could just as easily make light of "When did Jesus cash in his blood for our sins?"  Christ bore our sins in His own body and it is only logical that He would take them to hell (according to scripture) and leave them there.  It isn't a cardinal doctrine but I believe it is sound.

You're taking great liberties with 1 Peter 3:18-19.

First, Christ did not die for any demon or devil. Jude says God has reserved judgement for them.

"he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day."

Christ did not take on the nature of angels nor did he take up the process to redeem them.

Heb 2:16  For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
Heb 2:17  Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
Heb 2:18  For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

James says that angels "believe" and "tremble".

Jas 2:19  Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

Fallen angels have no sacrifice to claim. No Redeemer to call upon. They believe and tremble because they have no access to Christ's offering.

Why in the world would Christ preach to damned demons and angels or even the damned of mankind?  Christ himself even spoke of how people in the past that believed not the prophets had no hope in Him.

Luk_16:31  And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Second, Christ did away with SIN. OUR SIN was destroyed. IT WAS NOT CARRIED TO HELL FOR IT TO REMAIN THERE for ETERNITY. Christ destroyed sin on the Cross. The debt was paid and SIN was eradicated for those that would believe.

No Christ did not go to both places. He didn't have to carry our SIN to HELL. He destroyed it.

Do you think the torment side of hades afforded Christ the opportunity to "preach" to anyone or any thing? Do you remember the mentioning of the "great gulf" fixed between the two?

You're belief fails on so many levels it pitiful.

Why is it so important to deny Christ went to hell?  What did he preach to them?

"Between Christ's death and resurrection, His living spirit went to the demon spirits bound in the abyss and proclaimed that, in spite of His death, He had triumphed over them. This refers to fallen angels (demons), who were permanently bound because of heinous wickedness.  The demons who are not so bound resist such sentence (cf. Luke 8:31).  In the end, they will be sent to the eternal lake of fire (Matthew 25:41; Revelation 20:10)."  John MacArthur

I agree that our sins were destroyed - in hell!  Micah talks about them being cast into the depths of the sea.

Micah 7:19 ​​​​​​​​He will again have compassion on us;
        he will tread our iniquities underfoot.
        You will cast all our sins
        into the depths of the sea. (ESV)

Do you think its important to believe the truth? Do you think its okay to believe that Christ suffered in Hell?

MacArthur is wrong. His use of Luke 8:31 is a joke.

I can't believe that you think it took hell to destroy our sin.

Have you ever read 2 Peter? Do you remember that Christ bore our sins in his own body on the tree?

1Pe 2:24  Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Do you know that He tasted death for every man. Did He carry our sins in His own body and THEN.....cast them into hell.

Do you understand a allegorical statement? Do you literally believe our sins are floating around somewhere in the bottom of the Mariana Trench? You do know men have been to the bottom of that trench don't you? Do you think they will find our sins sitting down there somewhere?

BY the way... I thought you said Christ literally took our sins to hell. Now.... you say they are in the depth of the sea. Which one is it? Is a distortion of space/time causing them to be in both places at the same time?

 

[christundivided]

Why is it so important to deny Christ went to hell?  What did he preach to them?

"Between Christ's death and resurrection, His living spirit went to the demon spirits bound in the abyss and proclaimed that, in spite of His death, He had triumphed over them. This refers to fallen angels (demons), who were permanently bound because of heinous wickedness.  The demons who are not so bound resist such sentence (cf. Luke 8:31).  In the end, they will be sent to the eternal lake of fire (Matthew 25:41; Revelation 20:10)."  John MacArthur

I do think he went to hell, but to preach "to the spirits in prison", not to suffer or to carry our sins there.

MacArthur's idea that he went to gloat to the demons about his victory seems, um, a little bizarre to me. But so do a lot of Johnny Mac's ideas.

Prison is not necessarily a proper translation in 1 Peter 3:19. There is simply a sense of being "held" or "watched". There is no sense of Christ preaching to those damned in hell.

 

[Izdaari]

Why is it so important to deny Christ went to hell?  What did he preach to them?

"Between Christ's death and resurrection, His living spirit went to the demon spirits bound in the abyss and proclaimed that, in spite of His death, He had triumphed over them. This refers to fallen angels (demons), who were permanently bound because of heinous wickedness.  The demons who are not so bound resist such sentence (cf. Luke 8:31).  In the end, they will be sent to the eternal lake of fire (Matthew 25:41; Revelation 20:10)."  John MacArthur

I do think he went to hell, but to preach "to the spirits in prison", not to suffer or to carry our sins there.

MacArthur's idea that he went to gloat to the demons about his victory seems, um, a little bizarre to me. But so do a lot of Johnny Mac's ideas.

Prison is not necessarily a proper translation in 1 Peter 3:19. There is simply a sense of being "held" or "watched". There is no sense of Christ preaching to those damned in hell.

Yeah, it's not entirely clear, but I think it's a reasonable if not necessary inference.

 

[biscuit1953]

Why is it so important to deny Christ went to hell?  What did he preach to them?

"Between Christ's death and resurrection, His living spirit went to the demon spirits bound in the abyss and proclaimed that, in spite of His death, He had triumphed over them. This refers to fallen angels (demons), who were permanently bound because of heinous wickedness.  The demons who are not so bound resist such sentence (cf. Luke 8:31).  In the end, they will be sent to the eternal lake of fire (Matthew 25:41; Revelation 20:10)."  John MacArthur

I do think he went to hell, but to preach "to the spirits in prison", not to suffer or to carry our sins there.

MacArthur's idea that he went to gloat to the demons about his victory seems, um, a little bizarre to me. But so do a lot of Johnny Mac's ideas.

Prison is not necessarily a proper translation in 1 Peter 3:19. There is simply a sense of being "held" or "watched". There is no sense of Christ preaching to those damned in hell.

So talking about it not being the best translation and speculating on why Christ would not preach to them even though it clearly says He did begs the question once again.  Why the obsession to deny Christ went to hell?  I stated more than once that I don't believe he suffered there.  Christ is our scapegoat and I think it is a beautiful analogy that he carried our sins there just as the scapegoat carried them symbolically to the desert.  You may not agree with the analogy. You may not like the analogy but to imply it is a radical belief I believe is presumptive. 

 

[BandGuy]

This seems like a new teaching to me.  Who is teaching that Jesus suffered in Hell for our sins (where did this idea originate)?  What does this have to do with John Macarthur?  You know, there is a line in a Casting Crowns song, "...buried He carried my sins far away...".  Does this song have anything to do with this idea of Jesus carrying our sins to Hell?  Please excuse my random questions and my ignorance as I have truly never heard of this teaching before.

 

[Izdaari]

This seems like a new teaching to me.  Who is teaching that Jesus suffered in Hell for our sins (where did this idea originate)?  What does this have to do with John Macarthur?  You know, there is a line in a Casting Crowns song, "...buried He carried my sins far away...".  Does this song have anything to do with this idea of Jesus carrying our sins to Hell?  Please excuse my random questions and my ignorance as I have truly never heard of this teaching before.

I may have missed something, but as far as I know, WoF is the only significant Christian group that teaches that Jesus suffered in Hell.

MacArthur has nothing to do with them, and often harshly criticizes them. But then, he's in the habit of doing that with anyone who's not 100% on the same page as him.

Casting Crowns is a popular Christian band, and I like them too, but I don't think anybody spends time analyzing their lyrics and basing doctrine on them.

 

[BandGuy]

This seems like a new teaching to me.  Who is teaching that Jesus suffered in Hell for our sins (where did this idea originate)?  What does this have to do with John Macarthur?  You know, there is a line in a Casting Crowns song, "...buried He carried my sins far away...".  Does this song have anything to do with this idea of Jesus carrying our sins to Hell?  Please excuse my random questions and my ignorance as I have truly never heard of this teaching before.

I may have missed something, but as far as I know, WoF is the only significant Christian group that teaches that Jesus suffered in Hell.

MacArthur has nothing to do with them, and often harshly criticizes them. But then, he's in the habit of doing that with anyone who's not 100% on the same page as him.

Casting Crowns is a popular Christian band, and I like them too, but I don't think anybody spends time analyzing their lyrics and basing doctrine on them.

I admit that following this thread has been rather difficult for me.  It seems that Macarthur's name was mentioned earlier in the thread.  It could be that I misunderstood something there or didn't read close enough what that is all about.  So, it is the WOF heretics who teach that Jesus suffered in Hell?  I honestly did not know that.  Thanks.  So, Casting Crowns has nothing to do with this heresy.  That is good to know.

 

[Izdaari]

Thanks.  So, Casting Crowns has nothing to do with this heresy.  That is good to know.

I'm pretty sure they don't. They're Baptists.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casting_Crowns

 

[BandGuy]

Is this biscuit person a WoFer.

 

[biscuit1953]

This seems like a new teaching to me.  Who is teaching that Jesus suffered in Hell for our sins (where did this idea originate)?  What does this have to do with John Macarthur?  You know, there is a line in a Casting Crowns song, "...buried He carried my sins far away...".  Does this song have anything to do with this idea of Jesus carrying our sins to Hell?  Please excuse my random questions and my ignorance as I have truly never heard of this teaching before.

I may have missed something, but as far as I know, WoF is the only significant Christian group that teaches that Jesus suffered in Hell.MacArthur has nothing to do with them, and often harshly criticizes them. But then, he's in the habit of doing that with anyone who's not 100% on the same page as him.

Casting Crowns is a popular Christian band, and I like them too, but I don't think anybody spends time analyzing their lyrics and basing doctrine on them.

Izdarri, I have no idea what a WoFer is but it doesn't sound good.  I have read many of your posts and have great respect for you but to come on this thread and accuse me of saying just the opposite of what I said is nothing more than slander.

Neither John MacArthur nor myself believe Christ suffered in hell.  Thank you.

 

[Izdaari]

This seems like a new teaching to me.  Who is teaching that Jesus suffered in Hell for our sins (where did this idea originate)?  What does this have to do with John Macarthur?  You know, there is a line in a Casting Crowns song, "...buried He carried my sins far away...".  Does this song have anything to do with this idea of Jesus carrying our sins to Hell?  Please excuse my random questions and my ignorance as I have truly never heard of this teaching before.

I may have missed something, but as far as I know, WoF is the only significant Christian group that teaches that Jesus suffered in Hell.MacArthur has nothing to do with them, and often harshly criticizes them. But then, he's in the habit of doing that with anyone who's not 100% on the same page as him.

Casting Crowns is a popular Christian band, and I like them too, but I don't think anybody spends time analyzing their lyrics and basing doctrine on them.

Izdarri, I have no idea what a WoFer is but it doesn't sound good.  I have read many of your posts and have great respect for you but to come on this thread and accuse me of saying just the opposite of what I said is nothing more than slander.

Neither John MacArthur nor myself believe Christ suffered in hell.  Thank you.

Uh no. I never said you believed that. I was answering BandGuy's question, "Who is teaching that?". I said WoF does. I did not say biscuit does. WoF = Word of Faith. They're the "prosperity Gospel", "blab it and grab it" branch of Pentecostalism. Ken Hagin, Ken Copeland, Creflo Dollar, etc.

And MacArthur was criticizing that position, not endorsing it. However, I did say MacArthur's opinion that Jesus went to brag to the demons about out-scheming them was a little strange.

 

[biscuit1953]

This seems like a new teaching to me.  Who is teaching that Jesus suffered in Hell for our sins (where did this idea originate)?  What does this have to do with John Macarthur?  You know, there is a line in a Casting Crowns song, "...buried He carried my sins far away...".  Does this song have anything to do with this idea of Jesus carrying our sins to Hell?  Please excuse my random questions and my ignorance as I have truly never heard of this teaching before.

I may have missed something, but as far as I know, WoF is the only significant Christian group that teaches that Jesus suffered in Hell.MacArthur has nothing to do with them, and often harshly criticizes them. But then, he's in the habit of doing that with anyone who's not 100% on the same page as him.

Casting Crowns is a popular Christian band, and I like them too, but I don't think anybody spends time analyzing their lyrics and basing doctrine on them.

Izdarri, I have no idea what a WoFer is but it doesn't sound good.  I have read many of your posts and have great respect for you but to come on this thread and accuse me of saying just the opposite of what I said is nothing more than slander.

Neither John MacArthur nor myself believe Christ suffered in hell.  Thank you.

Uh no. I never said you believed that. Read what I actually say, not what you expect me to say. I said WoF does. WoF = Word of Faith. They're the "prosperity Gospel", "blab it and grab it" branch of Pentecostalism. Ken Hagin, Ken Copeland, Creflo Dollar, etc.

And MacArthur was criticizing that position, not endorsing it. However, I did say MacArthur's opinion that Jesus went to brag to the demons about out-scheming them was a little strange.

If I misunderstood what you said I apologize.  Maybe it was a  combination of BandGuy wondering if I was a "WoFer" (I had no idea what that stood for) that contributed to it.  I have been wrong about many things and could be wrong about this subject but as I said, whether my interpretation of these passages is correct or not it has nothing to do with cardinal doctrine.  I will reread Psalm 131.

 

[Izdaari]

Cool.  8)

And re: MacArthur's idea that Jesus went to tell the demons He beat them. Why? Of course, He and the Father did out-scheme them, but I think He'd let them figure it out on their own.