Creation and Evolution!

[Tarheel Baptist]

[quote author=Tarheel Baptist]I think this issue is key in the so called culture wars.

Why?

Because origins are foundational. If Genesis 1-11 aren't true, then all other scripture can be suspect. Man is either made in Gods image or he is another evolved species. If he's another evolved animal species, then he has picked himself up by his evolutionary boot straps and is moving up on his own.

False dichotomy.

[quote author=Tarheel Baptist]The Bible is trustworthy or it isn't.

And a tautology.

No, it is trustworthy or it isn't.
To say that the Bible is mostly trustworthy or sometimes trustworthy is the equivalent of being mostly faithful to your wife!
[/quote]

Do you know what a tautology is?
[/quote]

Do you know what a 'literary' day is?

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=Tarheel Baptist]The Bible is trustworthy or it isn't.

And a tautology.

No, it is trustworthy or it isn't.
To say that the Bible is mostly trustworthy or sometimes trustworthy is the equivalent of being mostly faithful to your wife!

Do you know what a tautology is?

Yes, but I wonder if you do....
Can you be mostly faithful to your wife?[/quote]

Answer to your question: absolutely.

Answer to your unasked question: Yes. I believe the Bible is trustworthy. It is trustworthy to be accurate regarding the information within it, once you account for translation errors, cultural context, literary genre, etc...

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=Tarheel Baptist]No, you interpret the Bible thru the lens of science...[/quote]

Again...false dichotomy. I don't interpret the Bible through the lens of science because I don't consider them to be at odds. They are complementary.

[quote author=Tarheel Baptist]..therefore you question the meaning of day (yom, in the hebrew) in Genesis 1 but accept that it means day everwhere else.[/quote]

Actually, it doesn't.  :-\

[quote author=Tarheel Baptist]Why? Because the Word of God' reveals to you' that science must not be contradicted  by the Bible...[/quote]

Science cannot be contradicted. Our understanding of science can be contradicted...all aspects of science, from quantum mechanics to evolution to gravity to.... Any "scientist" who tells you otherwise doesn't understand the scientific method.

[quote author=Tarheel Baptist]...so you use the contortion school of hermeneutics.[/quote]

I use the school of hermeneutics accepted by virtually every brand of Christianity out there including many of the original "Fundamentalists".

[quote author=Tarheel Baptist] Do you believe a great fish swallowed Jonah and kept him for 3 days....yom in hebrew....how long were the days?[/quote]

Perhaps...

 

[Castor Muscular]

No, you interpret the Bible thru the lens of science....therefore you question the meaning of day (yom, in the hebrew) in Genesis 1 but accept that it means day everwhere else.

I Kings 11:42 "And the time that Solomon reigned in Jerusalem over all Israel was forty years."

Time = Yom

Exodus 13:10 "Thou shalt therefore keep this ordinance in his season from year to year."

Year (to) Year = Yom

1 Kings 9:3 "And the LORD said4 unto him, I have heard1 thy prayer and thy supplication, that thou hast made before me: I have hallowed this house, which thou hast built, to put my name there for ever; and mine eyes and mine heart shall be there perpetually.

Perpetually = Yom

There are dozens of other examples.  Do you need more? 

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

No, you interpret the Bible thru the lens of science....therefore you question the meaning of day (yom, in the hebrew) in Genesis 1 but accept that it means day everwhere else.

I Kings 11:42 "And the time that Solomon reigned in Jerusalem over all Israel was forty years."

Time = Yom

Exodus 13:10 "Thou shalt therefore keep this ordinance in his season from year to year."

Year (to) Year = Yom

1 Kings 9:3 "And the LORD said4 unto him, I have heard1 thy prayer and thy supplication, that thou hast made before me: I have hallowed this house, which thou hast built, to put my name there for ever; and mine eyes and mine heart shall be there perpetually.

Perpetually = Yom

There are dozens of other examples.  Do you need more?

Yom is used more than 2000 times in the Old Testament. In over 1900 cases (95%) the word is clearly used of a 24-hour day, or of the daylight portion of a normal day.
Many of the other 5% refer to expressions such as "the day of the Lord" (Joel 2:1).

Other times, a 'prefix' is used with yom to denote a longer period of time.
In Genesis 1, the Holy Spirit goes out of His way to show day means day...the evening and the morning were the day.

I do not believe the Bible needs to be interpreted thru the lens of science, which is the ONLY reason to twist the meaning of day/yom in this context.

I also understand that many Bible believers do agree with your interpretation...but only because they approach the text with the so called scientific millions of years preconception.

 

[Castor Muscular]

Yom is used more than 2000 times in the Old Testament. In over 1900 cases (95%) the word is clearly used of a 24-hour day, or of the daylight portion of a normal day.
Many of the other 5% refer to expressions such as "the day of the Lord" (Joel 2:1).

Your figures are off, but it doesn't matter.  You don't define words by statistics.  I was only pointing out that "yom" does not mean 24-hour day "everywhere else" as you said.

I do not believe the Bible needs to be interpreted thru the lens of science, which is the ONLY reason to twist the meaning of day/yom in this context.

The fact that I question whether or not it's 24-hour days has nothing to do with science.  And as far as I'm concerned, it could very well be 24-hour days.  God can do that. 

I also understand that many Bible believers do agree with your interpretation...but only because they approach the text with the so called scientific millions of years preconception.

I don't know who you're talking about.  It's not me.  I don't have an interpretation.  I am open to multiple interpretations because I don't know which is closest to being correct.  And I'm content to wait for heaven to find out. 

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Yom is used more than 2000 times in the Old Testament. In over 1900 cases (95%) the word is clearly used of a 24-hour day, or of the daylight portion of a normal day.
Many of the other 5% refer to expressions such as "the day of the Lord" (Joel 2:1).

Your figures are off, but it doesn't matter.  You don't define words by statistics.  I was only pointing out that "yom" does not mean 24-hour day "everywhere else" as you said.

Maybe some, but I 'footnoted' the figures from a number of sources.

I do not believe the Bible needs to be interpreted thru the lens of science, which is the ONLY reason to twist the meaning of day/yom in this context.

The fact that I question whether or not it's 24-hour days has nothing to do with science.  And as far as I'm concerned, it could very well be 24-hour days.  God can do that. 

I also understand that many Bible believers do agree with your interpretation...but only because they approach the text with the so called scientific millions of years preconception.

I don't know who you're talking about.  It's not me.  I don't have an interpretation.  I am open to multiple interpretations because I don't know which is closest to being correct.  And I'm content to wait for heaven to find out.

Fair enough....and I certainly don't mean that those who don't believe in a young earth, 24 hour day creation are heretical....I know good people who believe otherwise.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

In line with this subject, do you believe in a Universal Flood?

 

[Mathew Ward]

Our church just hosted an Answers in Genesis Conference. I was surprised at the huge interest shown by our community. At this mornings sessions, we had over 350 school children for the lectures. Elementary kids in session one and teens in session two.
Some home schoolers, some Christian School groups but a very large number of kids came from public schools. I think this issue is key in the so called culture wars.

Do you believe in Creation as opposed to Evolution?
Do you believe in a six day creation?
Young earth?
Gap Theory, Age Day Theory etc...

In creation

A literal 6 day creation.

A young earth.

No on gap or day age.

Also believe that the world wide flood happened as told in the Bible.

 

[Castor Muscular]

In line with this subject, do you believe in a Universal Flood?

Yes.  And I wonder if the catastrophe that caused the flood (it wasn't just rain -- something broke the surface and allowed the floodgates of the deep to burst forth) also broke up the continents and shoved them apart very quickly.  That would, IMO, explain a lot of things.  I was happy to find that a geologist in Missouri came to the same conclusion. 

 

[Anchor]

In line with this subject, do you believe in a Universal Flood?

I have not done any reading or studying, sacred or secular, that does not conclude that the earth was covered with water at one time past.  Even the most ardent evolutionists recognize that the majority of the fossil record found on many of the highest peaks of the world were laid down by water (second most common would likely be volcanic burial). 

The difference is in the why were the continents/land masses underwater, and were they all underwater simultaneously?

FTR, I believe in the Scripture account of the flood--a singular cataclysmic event brought about by God in judgment on all of created earth.