Can an infant be a Christian?

Ekklesian

Ekklesian

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Jesus replied, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. - John 14:6 NET
 
Ezekiel 16:20-21 And you took your sons and your daughters, whom you had borne to me, and these you sacrificed to them to be devoured. Were your whorings so small a matter that you slaughtered my children and delivered them up as an offering by fire to them?

God called the children of wicked parents who were sacrificed to Moloch "my children." The same chldren that Jesus said made up the kingdom of heaven (Matt 19:14). Yes, even the children of wicked parents belong to the Lord.
 
biscuit1953 said:
Ezekiel 16:20-21 And you took your sons and your daughters, whom you had borne to me, and these you sacrificed to them to be devoured. Were your whorings so small a matter that you slaughtered my children and delivered them up as an offering by fire to them?

God called the children of wicked parents who were sacrificed to Moloch "my children." The same chldren that Jesus said made up the kingdom of heaven (Matt 19:14). Yes, even the children of wicked parents belong to the Lord.
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You should note that "my children" in the passage you cited refers only to Israelite children.

So are you saying that all children are born saved, or are you saying all children are born free of sin?
 
biscuit1953 said:
God called the children of wicked parents who were sacrificed to Moloch "my children."
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Yes, Israelite children entered the Old Covenant by birth.

... say, you're not trying to "spiritualize" Ezekiel so he's actually talking about Christian "covenant children," are you?
 
Ekklesian said:
You should note that "my children" in the passage you cited refers only to Israelite children.

So are you saying that all children are born saved, or are you saying all children are born free of sin?
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I don't want this to become an emotionally driven unchristian debate but I will try to explain my understanding of the subject.

God doesn't send 99% of the infants and little children to hell because of their race. The reason men and women go to hell is because of their sins which they have committed against God. Those Jews who were part of the covenant nation God set aside to be a witness to the other nations of the world weren't automatically saved because of their parentage any more than children go to heaven or hell because of who their parents are. On the day of Judgment, everyone will be judged according to their works (Rev 20:11-14). The reason the heathen and everyone who has never heard the gospel will have no excuse is because of the law God has put in their hearts which they have willfully broken (Rom 2:12-16). Men and women are saved by grace but damned by works. Little children don't have that record (cf. Jonah 4:11).

This is how someone put it in another thread. The question is not whether or how an infant comes to faith in Christ for salvation from sin. It is universally understood by all that such is an impossibility. The question is therefore, whether an infant or pre-born could be held accountable for things which are "clearly seen" (Rom 1:20) if they have not yet seen nor have the ability to comprehend such things. The Bible talks about the sins of our youth, not the sins of our childhood. I will finish up with this:

"It has been wickedly, lyingly, and slanderously said of Calvinists, that we believe that some little children perish. Those who make the accusation know that their charge is false. I cannot even dare to hope, though I would wish to do so, that they ignorantly misrepresent us. They wickedly repeat what has been denied a thousand times, what they know is not true.
As for modern Calvinists, I know of no exception, but we all hope and believe that all persons dying in infancy are elect. Dr Gill, who has been looked upon in late times as being a very standard of Calvinism, not to say of ultra-Calvinism, himself never hints for a moment the supposition that any infant has perished. He affirms that it is a dark and mysterious subject, but states that it is his belief, and he thinks he has Scripture to warrant it, that they who have fallen asleep in infancy have not perished but have been numbered with the chosen of God, and so have entered into eternal rest." (Charles Spurgeon)
 
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biscuit1953 said:
This is how someone put it in another thread. The question is not whether or how an infant comes to faith in Christ for salvation from sin. It is universally understood by all that such is an impossibility.
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It's far from a universal understanding. Why do you think it's an impossibility?
 
This is how someone put it in another thread. The question is not whether or how an infant comes to faith in Christ for salvation from sin. It is universally understood by all that such is an impossibility.
Ekklesian said:
It's far from a universal understanding. Why do you think it's an impossibility?
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Joh 8:37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
Joh 8:38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.
Joh 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
Joh 8:40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
Joh 8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
Joh 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
Joh 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

The Pharisees thought because they were the racial descendants of Abraham they were saved. God doesn't save people because of their race and God doesn't send infants and little children to hell because of who their parents are. Peter finally realized that God is no respecter of persons when it comes to salvation (Acts 10:34) and God doesn't send little children to hell because they are of the wrong heritage. What you are advocating is no different than what the Pharisees erroneously believed. Maybe look at certain aspects of Covenant Theology more closely. Calvinism, Covenant Theology and Dispensationalism all have their extremists. I have had to moderate many of the beliefs I was brought up on.
 
Ekklesian said:
What on God's green earth are you talking about? What do you think I am advocating?
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"You should note that "my children" in the passage you cited refers only to "Israelite children."

You know exactly what I'm saying. You flat out said God sent infants to hell because they weren't of the right racial heritage. The children sacrificed to Molech who were not Israelites went to hell!
 
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biscuit1953 said:
"You should note that "my children" in the passage you cited refers only to Israelite children."

You know exactly what I'm saying. You flat out said God sent infants to hell because they weren't of the right racial heritage. The children sacrificed to Molech who were not Israelites went to hell!
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I said nothing of the sort, LOL. I was just pointing out to you your fallacious application of the passage. God was not calling all infants His.

Now, without jumping to unsubstantiated conclusions, could you please just answer my questions?

Are you saying all children are born saved, or are you saying that all children are born without sin?

And...

Why do you presume that it is impossible for an infant to exercise faith?
 
Ekklesian said:
I said nothing of the sort, LOL. I was just pointing out to you your fallacious application of the passage. God was not calling all infants His.

Now, without jumping to unsubstantiated conclusions, could you please just answer my questions?

Are you saying all children are born saved, or are you saying that all children are born without sin?

And...

Why do you presume that it is impossible for an infant to exercise faith?
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I gave you my answer as plain as it can be. I'm not going to get bogged down with back and forth. If you believe God sends children to hell that is your belief. We just have to disagree.
 
biscuit1953 said:
I gave you my answer as plain as it can be.
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No you haven't. You haven't engaged me at all. You've been arguing with the ghosts of your past and projecting your notions of their arguments onto me.

You seem to be saying that only infants that die are of the elect, if you believe in an elect. You also seem to be arguing that they are whisked to heaven because they've done no outward work of evil, i.e., they're sinless, and are in no need of salvation.

You also seem to be asserting that the exercise of faith is a cognitive function and not a spiritual function.

Well, anyway. Thanks for your input. You proffered the typical quasi-Christian superstition, then bailed.
 
Bob H said:
"But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? "I shall go to him", but he shall not return to me."
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Meaning to the grave, unless the Resurrection is also in view here, wherein it is stated the child shall not 'return' therein to him.
 
Ekklesian said:
The Ark was a type and shadow of a spiritual reality. None of them infants were in it. Pretty dang real.
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Has God ever judged a Christian and taken them home to be with, say, due to chastisement?
 
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