Can a man be born again without hearing the King James Version?

Jrock said:
Would you say that Jack Hyles, Curtis Hutson, Steven Anderson and Yankee Arnold taught what is commonly refer as "free grace theology"?
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Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Rom 3:7 For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?
Rom 3:8 And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.
Jud 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Antinomianism (“against law”) is the belief that there are no moral laws God expects Christians to obey. What Jack Hyles taught and what others like him teach is very similar to this. I had a Seventh Day Adventist come knocking on my door several months ago and while discussing salvation he brought up diet, smoking tobacco, freemasonry and the Ten Commandments.

It sort of evolved into a checklist of salvation. I told him I grew up working in the tobacco fields and the only thing I had ever heard bad about tobacco was it would stunt your growth. I mentioned that God doesn’t send people to hell because they don’t have a perfect diet. And finally concerning the Ten Commandments, I said a Christian doesn’t keep the Ten Commandments in order to be saved, but he keeps them because he is saved. I said do you see the difference?

God grants repentance unto life (Acts 11:18) and turning from sin is evidence of a new heart.
 
sword said:
That's sermon was Hyperbole.

It the Gospel message, not the KJV that matters. Jack Hyles Taught that and every IFB college I know teaches. The sermon was Hyperbole. Such use of symantics do cause a great deal of confusion though I will agree.
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I believe that listening to Hyles actual sermon and reading his book about enemies of soulwinning will show it was not hyperbole. It’s not semantics but poor, heretical soteriology.
 
Well, has Firsts Baptist Church of Hammond now abandoned this false teaching? Has pastor John Wilkerson ever preached on KJV onlyism?
 
Jrock said:
Well, has Firsts Baptist Church of Hammond now abandoned this false teaching? Has pastor John Wilkerson ever preached on KJV onlyism?
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Excellent question that may be answered by the opening line of their statement of beliefs:

"We believe in the King James Version of the Bible..."

Is this a personal belief of Wilkerson or is it something he tolerates because he's not allowed to touch the issue? Either way, it doesn't bode well, IMHO.
 
Baptist Renegade said:
The man who led me to Christ used a King James Bible so just in case Jack Hyles is right, I'm covered!:LOL:
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You know me...I don't care a whole heck of a lot for anything JH said or did....When he said that anyone who was led to the Lord using an NIV or the NASB needed to examine their salvation seriously. What a crock of crap! That coming out of the mouth of a cultist!
 
AverageJoe said:
When he said that anyone who was led to the Lord using an NIV or the NASB needed to examine their salvation seriously.
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Many bad-faith KJV-onlyists fall into the trap of questioning someone's salvation because of the KJV. At which point they demonstrate that they follow a religion that isn't Christianity.
 
Ransom said:
Many bad-faith KJV-onlyists fall into the trap of questioning someone's salvation because of the KJV. At which point they demonstrate that they follow a religion that isn't Christianity.
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I fully agree. I used to be in that group, but, then I saw several of my friends converted in a church that used either the NASB, NIV, or the ESV, and I saw them living more Godly lives than those who were supporters of the KJVO movement. When I tried to get answers from those who were in this movement, and was attacked verbally, and on several occasions physically, because I had raised questions, I knew that it was time to search out their position more fully. I found the continued misapplication of their proof text in Psalms 12. Then there were other misapplications of scripture. There came attacks on not only modern translations with untruths being spouted about them, and upon men like Scofield, Thompson (Thompson Chain Reference), Wescott and Hort, etc. They would dismiss any proof against King James and his reasons for the version that bears his name. It was all their circular reasoning that was the last straw.
I've seen so much division amongst Christians over this issue, over issues like the upcoming election, over the Calvin v. Arminius positions, over the consumption of alcohol, and abortion as well, and I don't mean just small conflicts, but people breaking contact with family and friends over these issues, that I nearly walked away from the this "religion" altogether. Sadly, people are so divisive and unkind towards those who don't agree with them on Scripture.
 
I think the Bible is clear people are saved through the Gospel. If the clear presentation of the Gospel was printed in Karl Marx's "The Communist Manifesto", Hitlers
"Mein Kampf", or Sun Tzu's "Art of War" someone could use it to get saved. Millions of people have been saved by reading and believing the gospel from bible tracts.

Many people have been saved using every version of the bible in 100's of different languages arounf the world. millions were save long before the KJV was ever printed. The seed is the Gospel not the KJV or any other bible.

  • And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
    Mark 16:15
  • The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
    Mark 1:15
  • For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
    Romans 1:16
  • Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
    1 Corinthians 15:1-2
  • Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
    1 Peter 1:23
 
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I heard Jack Hyles preach many times say/preach that he has lead many Catholics to the Lord using their Douay bible. I have also heard him say the seed is the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
 
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sword said:
I heard Jack Hyles preach many times that he has lead many Catholics to the Lord using their Douay bible. I have also heard him say the seed is the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
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Hyles apparently started advocating for KJV-onlyism in the early 1980s.

I wonder who he was trying to impress.
 
Ransom said:
Many bad-faith KJV-onlyists fall into the trap of questioning someone's salvation because of the KJV. At which point they demonstrate that they follow a religion that isn't Christianity.
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I have never personally heard someone say or believe someone might not be saved because they did not use the KJV.

Any reference in this regard was hyperbole or was used unwisely to make a point about the KJV and was not their actually their intention. Many people use tracks when witnessing and may never open thier New Testament.
 
AverageJoe said:
I fully agree. I used to be in that group, but, then I saw several of my friends converted in a church that used either the NASB, NIV, or the ESV, and I saw them living more Godly lives than those who were supporters of the KJVO movement. When I tried to get answers from those who were in this movement, and was attacked verbally, and on several occasions physically, because I had raised questions, I knew that it was time to search out their position more fully. I found the continued misapplication of their proof text in Psalms 12. Then there were other misapplications of scripture. There came attacks on not only modern translations with untruths being spouted about them, and upon men like Scofield, Thompson (Thompson Chain Reference), Wescott and Hort, etc. They would dismiss any proof against King James and his reasons for the version that bears his name. It was all their circular reasoning that was the last straw.
I've seen so much division amongst Christians over this issue, over issues like the upcoming election, over the Calvin v. Arminius positions, over the consumption of alcohol, and abortion as well, and I don't mean just small conflicts, but people breaking contact with family and friends over these issues, that I nearly walked away from the this "religion" altogether. Sadly, people are so divisive and unkind towards those who don't agree with them on Scripture.
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Clearly how someone lives their life is not based on which Bible they use, but their relationship with Jesus Christ.
 
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sword said:
Any reference in this regard was hyperbole or was used unwisely to make a point about the KJV and was not their actually their intention.
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This thread began with Jack Jyles saying you needed the KJV dor salvation. As I said, there's no sense that he was using hyperbole.

I've had my salvation questioned countless times for doubting KJV-only claims. You can probably find a few examples on this forum. Those people weren't exaggerating for effect, either. They actually believe this.
 
Ransom said:
This thread began with Jack Jyles saying you needed the KJV dor salvation. As I said, there's no sense that he was using hyperbole.

I've had my salvation questioned countless times for doubting KJV-only claims. You can probably find a few examples on this forum. Those people weren't exaggerating for effect, either. They actually believe this.
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Well that premise is just nuts. The disciples and apostles went door to door, house to house and not one of them likely had scripture let alone a King James Bible.

It's the Gospel of Jesus Christ that saves not the physical bible (KJVO or otherwise).

I think that view one must use the KJV to get saved, among Independent Baptist is the very rare exception rather than the rule.

I would agree that one "cannot be saved apart for the Gospel".

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It's more important that you understand what you are reading like the Ethiopian eunuch. Whatever version you use as long as the message is the truth and you can understand it with or without human help you can be born again.
 
During my time at LBC(Lynchburg Baptist College) we had a discussion in one of the hallway with some Ruckmanites about KJV vs other translations. I was a KJV thumper at that time due to the pastor in Tampa fl whose church I attended. His view if other christians do not dot their I's or cross their T's like we do then we should not fellowship with them.
One of the guys in the discussion said I was led to the Lord by someone using Good News for Modern Man. Does that means my salvation is not on the same level as one with the KJV or does it mean my salvation is of a lesser quality. After that day I was not longer a KJV thumper.
 
illinoisguy said:
More of Jack in all his glory, from his sermon "Get Your Stinking Feet Out Of My Drinking Water:"

"Let me tell you something tonight. America didn't have policeman in our schools when we believed this King James Bible. America didn't have a bunch of dope problems, marijuana was almost unheard of when America believed this King James Bible. When the teachers in our public schools started off the morning reading this King James Bible, believed with this King James Bible, and before a bunch of self-styled scholars thought they could change the King James Bible, to make a buck, we had a nation worth something. Brother, we're not gonna save this nation until 'til we get back to every Word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the Father. . . .

"Let's open here and see what it says, 'And when the men of the city arose early in the morning.' Now 'Men' is the opposite of women. Some of you queers wouldn't know that. Maybe I've had more fun tonight than this morning. I'm saying I've got to have every Word. I must have every Word to live. I must have every Word to get my prayers answered. I must have every Word to receive Christ the Bible says."

Get Your Stinking Feet Out Of My Drinking Water — by Pastor Jack Hyles

Get Your Stinking Feet Out Of My Drinking Water
www.jesusisprecious.org
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And that is one of the reasons I try to hide the fact I graduated from there!
 
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