Bias

That argument, as has already been said, is pretty much a dead end that results in paralysis. You believe what you wanna believe and I’ll do the same. How does such a declaration help you and your conscience function in your belief structure?
 
Me and my conscience? I no longer need to live in fear of God, uncertainty, of guilt, of the need to live up to the "righteous desire" of others, of interpreting the Bible "correctly", of accidently slipping into sin, etc.

It allows me freedom to live according to my ethics and love for my neighbor as I interpret it. This allows my "belief structure" the freedom of metamorphosis, of change and adaptation.

I am free to be wrong and I no longer need to worry about having to be right. I can live for the here and now, not for eternity. I can put aside the filling of the void in my life, trying to paper over that hole with a God of condemnation and personal/religious piety.

No doubt others will see it differently and even more so will condemn me but this freedom of grace is greater than the bondage that (in general) religious belief systems bring.

This is the paradox; accepting the void instead of trying to fill it with "god" or a religious faith is actually freeing unless we choose to live in the guilt causing said paralysis. Being uncertain means options and more opportunity for learning, for loving, for living. To say putting off the shackles of a religious faith is a paralysis is naivety at best and gaslighting at worst.
 
Smellin Coffee said:
Me and my conscience? I no longer need to live in fear of God, uncertainty, of guilt, of the need to live up to the "righteous desire" of others, of interpreting the Bible "correctly", of accidently slipping into sin, etc.

It allows me freedom to live according to my ethics and love for my neighbor as I interpret it. This allows my "belief structure" the freedom of metamorphosis, of change and adaptation.

I am free to be wrong and I no longer need to worry about having to be right. I can live for the here and now, not for eternity. I can put aside the filling of the void in my life, trying to paper over that hole with a God of condemnation and personal/religious piety.

No doubt others will see it differently and even more so will condemn me but this freedom of grace is greater than the bondage that (in general) religious belief systems bring.

This is the paradox; accepting the void instead of trying to fill it with "god" or a religious faith is actually freeing unless we choose to live in the guilt causing said paralysis. Being uncertain means options and more opportunity for learning, for loving, for living. To say putting off the shackles of a religious faith is a paralysis is naivety at best and gaslighting at worst.
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I never mentioned God. I won’t spill any more ink, but that should say something to you.
 
I read very little from these sources and none of them tell me how to read the Bible. The scriptures say what they say and seeing that all those listed in your meme largely agree on what is written therein should tell you something!

You will stand before God for what is plainly written and you will be without excuse!

You truly are the poster child regarding the fruits of the "Quick Prayer, Easy Believism, Cheap Grace" method of evangelism taught and promulgated by HAC/FBCH! I am truly saddened at what you have become and pray that God will open your eyes and grant you repentance and faith to believe.

Even the flamin' Arminys have more in common with those listed than the nonsense you are spouting off!
 
ALAYMAN said:
I never mentioned God. I won’t spill any more ink, but that should say something to you.
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You said "belief structure" so I pointed out the origin of what I used to believe to how I see it now. God was and still IS a part of the spiritual essence of who I am, of what I believe. It's just not the "god" of Western Christianity, particularly Evangelicalism.. ;)
 
Smellin Coffee said:
You said "belief structure" so I pointed out the origin of what I used to believe to how I see it now. God was and still IS a part of the spiritual essence of who I am, of what I believe. It's just not the "god" of Western Christianity, particularly Evangelicalism.. ;)
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Gotcha.

It just seems like the sort of relativism that you’ve espoused, if you really believed in it, you would let other people practice what they believe as well, in a more laissez-faire manner. Again, no offense intended, but you seem to be an evangelist for your own version of religion, as if you feel the need to give to other people your version of religious and ethical ideals or dogma . I just don’t understand why you don’t let them figure it out on their own. Maybe they’re on their own journey, and what works for them is diametrically opposed to what works for you and you will be harming them by proselytizing. Just a thought.
 
Belief structure? Shouldn't someone who has "deconstructed" have a belief poststructure? And live in between the dots of the umlaut, and all that?
 
Ransom said:
Belief structure? Shouldn't someone who has "deconstructed" have a belief poststructure? And live in between the dots of the umlaut, and all that?
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Whatevs.

I look at it like this: I deconstructed the belief silo and whatever reconstruction I begin to work on is more horizontal than vertical.
 
ALAYMAN said:
Gotcha.

It just seems like the sort of relativism that you’ve espoused, if you really believed in it, you would let other people practice what they believe as well, in a more laissez-faire manner. Again, no offense intended, but you seem to be an evangelist for your own version of religion, as if you feel the need to give to other people your version of religious and ethical ideals or dogma . I just don’t understand why you don’t let them figure it out on their own. Maybe they’re on their own journey, and what works for them is diametrically opposed to what works for you and you will be harming them by proselytizing. Just a thought.
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Giving personal testimony is not evangelism. It isn't trying to create a (de)conversion or recruit to a system of (un)belief but rather gives evidence for those who are questioning a source of experience from one who has gone before them. Most of my good friends are Christians and I work hard to specifically make it a point not to pee on their faith. It gives them strength and hope and if it makes them better folks, I have no desire for them to change what makes them who they are.

How are you reading into my thoughts as proselytizing? Not criticizing, just curious because this is what I am NOT trying to do. I want to be as real as I can be, show folks who I am but not expect them to come to the same conclusions. Feel free to point out where you feel I am trying to convince others to convert to my side and maybe I can clarify my intent for you.

*Edit for one more thought:

Let's use baseball as an example. Being a Cubs fan, I'm hyped that Counsell is now the new manager of the Cubs. I can talk about the direction the team is going, about how I think this could make them a playoff team, about how this is the best move made in the MLB offseason. I may or may not be right in any/all of those things but my expression of those "beliefs" doesn't mean I'm trying to recruit you or anyone else into Cub fandom. This is how I view my deconstruction; it's not about recruiting one to lose their faith but rather the relaying of my personal opinions/experiences.
 
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Baptist Renegade said:
I read very little from these sources and none of them tell me how to read the Bible. The scriptures say what they say and seeing that all those listed in your meme largely agree on what is written therein should tell you something!

You will stand before God for what is plainly written and you will be without excuse!

You truly are the poster child regarding the fruits of the "Quick Prayer, Easy Believism, Cheap Grace" method of evangelism taught and promulgated by HAC/FBCH! I am truly saddened at what you have become and pray that God will open your eyes and grant you repentance and faith to believe.

Even the flamin' Arminys have more in common with those listed than the nonsense you are spouting off!
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Feelin' the love here! LOL!

I'm not worried because the Scriptures are NOT clear. Never have been. What they say may not necessarily be what was initially said and certainly not portrayed in the original context to whom it was originally written. Hence, we accept based on personal bias. ALL OF US do. :)
 
Ransom said:
When I deconstruct my belief, whatever reconstruction I work on will be more effervescent than steatopygous.
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Which is your choice.

But what's gonna cushion you when you land? ;)
 
Smellin Coffee said:
Giving personal testimony is not evangelism. It isn't trying to create a (de)conversion or recruit to a system of (un)belief but rather gives evidence for those who are questioning a source of experience from one who has gone before them. Most of my good friends are Christians and I work hard to specifically make it a point not to pee on their faith. It gives them strength and hope and if it makes them better folks, I have no desire for them to change what makes them who they are.

How are you reading into my thoughts as proselytizing? Not criticizing, just curious because this is what I am NOT trying to do. I want to be as real as I can be, show folks who I am but not expect them to come to the same conclusions. Feel free to point out where you feel I am trying to convince others to convert to my side and maybe I can clarify my intent for you.

*Edit for one more thought:

Let's use baseball as an example. Being a Cubs fan, I'm hyped that Counsell is now the new manager of the Cubs. I can talk about the direction the team is going, about how I think this could make them a playoff team, about how this is the best move made in the MLB offseason. I may or may not be right in any/all of those things but my expression of those "beliefs" doesn't mean I'm trying to recruit you or anyone else into Cub fandom. This is how I view my deconstruction; it's not about recruiting one to lose their faith but rather the relaying of my personal opinions/experiences.
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Cubbies <blech>

Go Reds! 😁


Advocating for your favorite sports team or flavor of ice cream aint exactly in the same moral category as the (non) existence of God and/or morality. Your argument consist of an atlas by virtue of the fact that you are making a moral claim of right and/or wrong, even if it is relativistic.
 
Smellin Coffee said:
It allows me freedom to live according to my ethics and love for my neighbor as I interpret it. This allows my "belief structure" the freedom of metamorphosis, of change and adaptation.
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Unless you're arguing that living for the here and now involves the freedom to lie, steal, and kill, I would venture a guess that the freedom is all about with whom or what you want to have sex.
 
Smellin Coffee said:
Feelin' the love here! LOL!

I'm not worried because the Scriptures are NOT clear. Never have been. What they say may not necessarily be what was initially said and certainly not portrayed in the original context to whom it was originally written. Hence, we accept based on personal bias. ALL OF US do. :)
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Rest assured that I do care about you my friend!

Your argument is the same one that Muslims try to make about the message of Christ being changed and perverted over time so I will respond in the same manner as I would to them with the exception that you know better!

The onus is upon you to make your case regarding the accuracy and authenticity (or lack thereof) of the New Testament scriptures! We have the witness of manuscript evidence going all the way back to the first century plus we have the writings of the Church fathers who used the same scriptures we use today. I am quite confident that the book I have on my desk is the word of God and even more so since leaving the KJVO crowd!

The scriptures are clear and easily understood. It is only obscure to those who do not want to acknowledge and believe what it has to say. They are willfully ignorant, they suppress the truth in unrighteousness, and they wrest the scriptures to their own destruction.

What is even worse is that you have been to Bible College and even though admittedly inferior in its instruction, it provided a great bit of truth which is over and above that of the overwhelming majority of the human population which currently inhabits this planet! You have a great bit in which to give an account and for this I greatly fear for you! You will certainly have the greater damnation on the day of judgment!

Yes, I do care and because I do, I will speak the truth! If I did not, I would just laugh along with others regarding your state of apostacy!
 
Ekklesian said:
Unless you're arguing that living for the here and now involves the freedom to lie, steal, and kill, I would venture a guess that the freedom is all about with whom or what you want to have sex.
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LOL!

I'm not looking for freedom to do those very things that are historically tenet to religion (lie, steal and kill) nor am I looking for freedom to have multiple sexual partners.

Not that it matters but I am monogamous and I've had sexual contact with only one person my entire life and next month, I will have been married to her for 35 years now. I have zero desire to have sex with anyone else. But keep on projecting...

;)
 
ALAYMAN said:
Cubbies <blech>

Go Reds! 😁


Advocating for your favorite sports team or flavor of ice cream aint exactly in the same moral category as the (non) existence of God and/or morality. Your argument consist of an atlas by virtue of the fact that you are making a moral claim of right and/or wrong, even if it is relativistic.
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...shrug...

So now the goalposts have shifted. The point was about whether or not I was trying to recruit Christians out of their personal faith. You couldn't provide a quote of mine where I expected my belief to be adopted by others so now you are moving on to subject content as opposed to purpose of my posting.

I would also suggest that at some basic level ANY discussion about theology, religion and even philosophy in general has some root in the ethics (or "moral claim" as you word it) because we all cannot be but relatively biased and those topics tend to at least touch the concept of morality as a base.

So yeah, any argument I make about a deity or religious practice or piety or even civil ethical standard will be through my relativism but again, it doesn't mean such is meant to be a sales pitch in attempt to convert others to what I choose to believe.

But you have the right to project such about me, should you so choose.
 
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