Be careful what you celebrate.

[ALAYMAN]

Yep. Teenage pregnancy always nullifies legitimate accomplishments.

So you think Zacharias was making it all up that the people applauding were doing so purely and solely out of her own academic accomplishment?

 

[Ransom]

The warning in the OP wasn't nearly pointed at the girl for making a mistake as much as it was for society for applauding out of wedlock pregnancy.

Bushwah. Noonan had no way of reading the collective mind of the audience and knowing they applauded the girl specifically because she was knocked up - and not, for example because she was knocked up and decided to keep the baby and plan for her future by finishing high school (an attitude which is, in fact, laudable).

 

[ALAYMAN]

The warning in the OP wasn't nearly pointed at the girl for making a mistake as much as it was for society for applauding out of wedlock pregnancy.

Bushwah. Noonan had no way of reading the collective mind of the audience and knowing they applauded the girl specifically because she was knocked up - and not, for example because she was knocked up and decided to keep the baby and plan for her future by finishing high school (an attitude which is, in fact, laudable).

I don't think that the notion of applauding her for getting knocked up out of wedlock is what Noonan meant as much as the fact that in times past such incidents were cause for the female to be "put away", and given those attitudes, the mere fact that she would get ANY applause at all indicated a social shift in toleration of the shameful deed.

 

[JrChurch]

As a matter of practicality, I think it takes a lot of discernment to find the correct balance between compassionate encouragement toward the unwed teen and perceived promotion of the behavior in the eyes of other teens. 

 

[ALAYMAN]

As a matter of practicality, I think it takes a lot of discernment to find the correct balance between compassionate encouragement toward the unwed teen and perceived promotion of the behavior in the eyes of other teens.

You're on a roll.  *THAT* was the exact nuanced point Zacharias was making.

 

[Just John]

Aside: When I heard about this new forum, I had some small hopes. Oh well.

Back on topic:
Maybe some group could re-open the Magdalene Laundries. Don't suppose they would have to be Catholic.

Alternatively, send Hephzibah House a few million so they can expand, then such sinners can be sent away.

We all know : that the only sin that matters is sexual sin, but even that only matters under certain circumstances - mostly involving an enlarging belly.

[/SARCARSM]

Good post.  Good to see you here. Stick around. The forum will be a better place for it. 

 

[Ransom]

I don't think that the notion of applauding her for getting knocked up out of wedlock is what Noonan meant as much as the fact that in times past such incidents were cause for the female to be "put away", and given those attitudes, the mere fact that she would get ANY applause at all indicated a social shift in toleration of the shameful deed.

Why should we presume that putting the pregnant girl away is a better course of action than confronting her error head-on?

At some point, we have to admit that the deed was done, and move on. Being pregnant is not a sin; it's (sometimes) the consequence of a sin.

You're on a roll.  *THAT* was the exact nuanced point Zacharias was making.

And how in Hyles' name were we supposed to know that? Although Ravi Zacharias quoted Peggy Noonan's column, you failed to quote a single word of his own commentary. (She wasn't making a "nuanced" point about applauding a pregnant girl; she was arguing that people weren't happy anymore because America had abandoned its moral center.)

 

[ALAYMAN]

I don't think that the notion of applauding her for getting knocked up out of wedlock is what Noonan meant as much as the fact that in times past such incidents were cause for the female to be "put away", and given those attitudes, the mere fact that she would get ANY applause at all indicated a social shift in toleration of the shameful deed.

Why should we presume that putting the pregnant girl away is a better course of action than confronting her error head-on?

Again, I don't think that Noonan was advocating the best course of action being that of shunning in the exact manner of olden days ("putting away") so much as she was saying that the cultural over-correction most certainly was NOT the proper course.

You're on a roll.  *THAT* was the exact nuanced point Zacharias was making.

And how in Hyles' name were we supposed to know that? Although Ravi Zacharias quoted Peggy Noonan's column, you failed to quote a single word of his own commentary. (She wasn't making a "nuanced" point about applauding a pregnant girl; she was arguing that people weren't happy anymore because America had abandoned its moral center.)

The OP quote spelled out the point clearly enough without the context of Zacharias' sermon.  Noonan was saying that celebration of immorality and decadence, by way of the feminist revolution's sexual liberation, could be noticed in what society tolerated, and eventually embraced and celebrated.  That point, particularly in hindsight, is unassailable.

 

[Raine]

If you don't think shunning or applauding the girl for graduating was the right course of action, what to you suggest. There are only so many ways to handle a high school pregnancy:

1. Force the girl to drop out of school, shun and shame her.
2. Hide her away with relatives or at a girl's home, act like the pregnancy never happened.
3. Encourage her to get an abortion, finish school, and act like it never happened.
4. Encourage her to have the child and finish her education.

Having seen friends and family members go through all of the above, I think 4 is still the best option in what is usually a bad situation.

 

[brianb]

If you don't think shunning or applauding the girl for graduating was the right course of action, what to you suggest. There are only so many ways to handle a high school pregnancy:

1. Force the girl to drop out of school, shun and shame her.
2. Hide her away with relatives or at a girl's home, act like the pregnancy never happened.
3. Encourage her to get an abortion, finish school, and act like it never happened.
4. Encourage her to have the child and finish her education.

Having seen friends and family members go through all of the above, I think 4 is still the best option in what is usually a bad situation.

In the wacky world of evangelical fundamentalism all 4 of those have been done including number 3.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

If you have a legitimate offense against an IFBx, then confront that situation and resolve it.  I wish some of you would see how BITTER  you are against anything that has the slightest odor of IFB;  it skews your reading comprehension, your thought process and your very soul.  Take time to look at the words of the quoted author:

"We as a society do not approve of teenaged unwed motherhood because it is not good for the child, not good for the mother and not good for us."

"The old America would not have applauded the girl in the big graduation gown, but some of its individuals would have helped her not only materially but with some measure of emotional support."

"As we

 

[ALAYMAN]

If you don't think shunning or applauding the girl for graduating was the right course of action, what to you suggest.

The point of the OP was twofold:

1) To aggravate people like "Bob", and it worked well to that end.

2) Not so much to talk about unwed pregnancy, as much as it was to show that the moral temperature of America has shifted left.  The incident in question happened as a microcosm of the sexual revolution of the 60s, but we've went waaaaay past that, and smashed many more moral taboos.  That shift was not due to an accidental cause, but was part and parcel of a liberal propaganda effort to tear down conservative institutional control, including any effects that the Christian church might have on the morals of our country.


So you ask, what would I do?  I wouldn't "celebrate diversity", and give the impression that I was okay with single motherhood, but I'd love her, and do exactly what the Noonan/Zacharias article said to do, and that is help her and the child do what was in their best interest.  Of course at the heart of this assistance is the impartation of the gospel.