BBC President Advocates "New Fundamentalism"

[illinoisguy]

An interesting interview with BBC President Mark Milioni, in which he expresses his disillusionment with the critical spirit of some older Fundamentalists (which he says was not typical of the original Fundamentalism), and he promotes "New Fundamentalism."

"After four years as a police officer, Milioni enrolled at BBC as a ministerial student. Upon arriving, he 'began to realize there was a critical, judgmental atmosphere. They enjoyed catching you. I don’t know if there was a reward for giving demerits, but it just seemed that way.' 'I was a cop,' Milioni reflects. 'I was a rules guy, but I also realize I’m a grown man. I had been a leader of my city as a policeman, and now I have these young whippersnappers giving me demerits for some nonsense. It wasn’t helpful. It wasn’t kind. It wasn’t encouraging. It was demeaning. And, it was legalistic.'. . . Milioni admits shortcomings at BBC in the past: 'I meet people all the time that were hurt by legalistic rules and the atmosphere of BBC back in the day, and I just apologize. I am so sorry. I understand. It breaks my heart… . We just don’t have those difficult problems any more. We don’t base our world on preferential rules.'”

“A Bold, New Fundamentalism” | SHARPER IRON

sharperiron.org

This is intended as an informational post only - I don't have an "axe to grind." I am not for or against BBC. I do not endorse the Recovering Fundamentalist web site referenced in this article. Admittedly, having spent many years in the hypercritical, extremist atmosphere of Old Paths IFB-dom, I am sympathetic to the idea of a kinder, gentler "New Fundamentalism" approach, but I do not necessarily endorse it 100%.

 

[voicecrying]

Even though I escaped IFBx-dom 12 years ago, I still have remnants of that critical spirit popping up. It was very difficult to find a new church and remain there because of it. I am certainly not even remotely close to how critical I used to be, but old habits do die hard.

 

[AverageJoe]

An interesting interview with BBC President Mark Milioni, in which he expresses his disillusionment with the critical spirit of some older Fundamentalists (which he says was not typical of the original Fundamentalism), and he promotes "New Fundamentalism."

"After four years as a police officer, Milioni enrolled at BBC as a ministerial student. Upon arriving, he 'began to realize there was a critical, judgmental atmosphere. They enjoyed catching you. I don’t know if there was a reward for giving demerits, but it just seemed that way.' 'I was a cop,' Milioni reflects. 'I was a rules guy, but I also realize I’m a grown man. I had been a leader of my city as a policeman, and now I have these young whippersnappers giving me demerits for some nonsense. It wasn’t helpful. It wasn’t kind. It wasn’t encouraging. It was demeaning. And, it was legalistic.'. . . Milioni admits shortcomings at BBC in the past: 'I meet people all the time that were hurt by legalistic rules and the atmosphere of BBC back in the day, and I just apologize. I am so sorry. I understand. It breaks my heart… . We just don’t have those difficult problems any more. We don’t base our world on preferential rules.'”

“A Bold, New Fundamentalism” | SHARPER IRON

sharperiron.org

This is intended as an informational post only - I don't have an "axe to grind." I am not for or against BBC. I do not endorse the Recovering Fundamentalist web site referenced in this article. Admittedly, having spent many years in the hypercritical, extremist atmosphere of Old Paths IFB-dom, I am sympathetic to the idea of a kinder, gentler "New Fundamentalism" approach, but I do not necessarily endorse it 100%.

Having been raised in a legalistic, hateful, IFB church, and watching how the church refused to let my father serve in any way because he smoked cigarettes (he wasn't allowed to serve as a fill-in for SS teaching, for being an usher, singing in the choir, or even as a helper in the youth dept), I grew to know that these man-made, PREFERENCES were not based on Scripture, but who had their nose up someone else's behind! Sorry to be blunt here, but, that's about what it boiled down to. These actions against my dad ended up discouraging him to the point that he felt he wasn't worth much except to pay a tithe, open our home for youth activities and adult Bible studies because we had one of the largest homes in the church, and his cooking ability where he was "out of sight" of the public. Dad wasn't looking for the public eye...he already had it being self-employed. The people of the church who rejected him in the church didn't mind asking him for discounts in the Western store he was part owner of, often being bold enough to insist on one because they went to the same church as he did. This pissed me off to no end. Their attitude towards him in the church ended up being passed on to the family, and that was the end for me. As far as I was concerned, I wanted NOTHING to do with "fundamentalism", and rebelled against Christianity to some degree. I would publically question some of the stances of the church, much to the chagrin of the pastor, deacons, and even my parents. When these questions couldn't be answered by the Bible, I let the pastor and deacons know straight out that they were hypocrites trying to enforce man-made preferences over Biblical standards. Yes, I went to an IFB college after high school, and then to a second IFB college. I was expelled from the first college (who, incidentally, was a split off from BBC in Springfield, MO...Dr. Bobby Lounsberry was the president of the college when it started...Fellowship Baptist College in the Averyville Baptist Church in E. Peoria, IL...until he himself ended up divorced and disgraced...) I was dismissed because I stood up in chapel after my parents and their business partners were attacked by the college dean during an announcement from the pulpit..."Young ladies, you need not apply to Christian Brothers Western Store to work because you would be required to wear a pair of blue jeans and cowboy boots, just like the owners' wives, who look like sluts"...wrong thing to say about my mother....I let him know it, too, and demanded an apology right then and there...I eventually ended up with an apology from Bobby Lounsberry before he resigned from the church and college. At any rate, I stayed with the IFB churches until 2000, when my wife and I had had enough. Our pastor was standing in the pulpit defending a man named Joe Combs, a pastor over in E. Tennessee, stating that he had been set up by people who hated God, Fundamentalism and the Baptist church. Joe Combs and his wife had been arrested for child abuse, possible sexual misconduct, etc., and they were associated with HAC just as this pastor, his assistant pastor, and many in our church were. We got up in the middle of the service and left as he continued to defend this man. I haven't been back in the IFB circles since. We are members of a church in the SBC. I don't hate those in the IFB movement, but, I am often very leary of their judgemental, hateful doctrine and actions. They have to PROVE to me what their character is before I become comfortable with them.
I was a reader of the the website mentioned in the article...The preacher who helped me to finally leave the IFB movement was Evangelist Tim Lee, a Vietnam veteran who had lost his legs while in Nam. I am thankful for his influence in my life and the lives of many other friends I have.

 

[illinoisguy]

I don't see how Averyville Baptist Church (IFB) in East Peoria could take such a "holier than thou" attitude, when they ended up having their own problems with a sex offender on their staff:

Youth pastor sentenced for sexual assault of teenager - Chronicle Media

The youth pastor of an East Peoria area Baptist church could spend a decade behind bars for sexually assaulting a teen church member over a four-year span.

chronicleillinois.com

Supposedly, churches that take a strong stand against women's slacks will prevent immorality by doing so, but it didn't seem to work at Averyville Baptist or any number of other IFB churches that had sex scandals in spite of the staunch stand against women's slacks. Meanwhile, I wonder if the IFB brand has been ruined, as a result of those of us in the IFB movement who cultivated, over the decades, an eagerness and a reputation for harshly condemning people over such issues as dress codes, hair length, music, Bible versions, amusements, holiday observances (Easter, Christmas), etc. The word got around about our relentlessly critical spirit, and people learned to avoid us. Many IFB churches no longer emphasize this stuff, but the reputation for harsh judgmentalism continues to haunt those who are trying to do the Lord's work under the IFB label (basically good people, some of them). At some point, IFB pastors and leaders may want to speak up and disassociate themselves from the older, harshly critical brand of fundamentalism, as Mark Milioni is doing (but of course they will be condemned as stinking, rotten compromisers for doing so).

 

[AverageJoe]

I don't see how Averyville Baptist Church (IFB) in East Peoria could take such a "holier than thou" attitude, when they ended up having their own problems with a sex offender on their staff:

Youth pastor sentenced for sexual assault of teenager - Chronicle Media

The youth pastor of an East Peoria area Baptist church could spend a decade behind bars for sexually assaulting a teen church member over a four-year span.

chronicleillinois.com

Supposedly, churches that take a strong stand against women's slacks will prevent immorality by doing so, but it didn't seem to work at Averyville Baptist or any number of other IFB churches that had sex scandals in spite of the staunch stand against women's slacks. Meanwhile, I wonder if the IFB brand has been ruined, as a result of those of us in the IFB movement who cultivated, over the decades, an eagerness and a reputation for harshly condemning people over such issues as dress codes, hair length, music, Bible versions, amusements, holiday observances (Easter, Christmas), etc. The word got around about our relentlessly critical spirit, and people learned to avoid us. Many IFB churches no longer emphasize this stuff, but the reputation for harsh judgmentalism continues to haunt those who are trying to do the Lord's work under the IFB label (basically good people, some of them). At some point, IFB pastors and leaders may want to speak up and disassociate themselves from the older, harshly critical brand of fundamentalism, as Mark Milioni is doing (but of course they will be condemned as stinking, rotten compromisers for doing so).

I went to college at Fellowship with Pastor Coyle...he was a student at the time I went. My wife and I had moved back to Peoria/Pekin several times for work, and we knew the Coyles. The last time we went back to Averyville/Fellowship, was back in the 1990s when we were students there for a semester. We were "set up" by the administrator's son, him saying that we had questioned whether Averyville was even a legitimate Baptist church because when they left the Congregational church group back in the 40's or 50's they didn't rebaptize their congregants as Baptists. UGH! We didn't say anything of the sort, but one of our friends did. I was asked by a local pastor to sit in on a meeting with this particular student who was questioning the validity of Averyville's Baptist status....I did...David Coyle was the pastor then. He took the administrator's word against mine, though I had never lied to him, nor had I ever done anything questionable in the college outside of the time I stood up back in 1980 to defend my parents and their business partners. We weren't happy with their decision and tried to appeal it, but, Pastor Coyle was totally against us coming back. I lost all of my credits from the school (I was to graduate if I had finished one more semester), and they arbitrarily "lost" all of my wife's school records. Typical of what I'd experienced and seen done to others in the IFB churches I'd been in. I hold no ill will against David and Brenda Coyle, nor do I hold any ill will against the college administrator at that time, Rick Scarberry, who is now with the Lord. I've tried on several occasions to talk to Pastor Coyle, but he refuses to speak to me. That's his loss and a mark against his pastorate as far as I'm concerned...he's violating Biblical guidelines.
During our time at Fellowship in the 90s, he got the church to buy up all of the duplexes by the church property, stating that the Lord had impressed upon him that the college was going to grow and they'd need them....so, the church bought them. The college was gone from Averyville within five(?) years. It moved to Camby, Indiana. I have a hard time telling people to go to Averyville, and refer them to Cornerstone in Groveland, IL...or to El Vista in Peoria. Even Bayview Gardens would be a better choice.
As for all the man-made standards...well, if anyone were to see me at this point, they would know that I had abandoned them a long time ago.

 

[illinoisguy]

False accusations against church members, like those made against Average Joe at Averyville, appear to be standard practice for intimidating and controlling people in some IFB churches. I have been subjected to this on various occasions. Once the pastor has made a false accusation, on a matter that would be trivial even if true, then the accused church member is expected to admit to things he did not do or say, and to demonstrate his contrition by agreeing to be totally submissive and obedient to the Mannagod from that point on. The best way for the falsely accused church member to handle such situations is to leave that church. On occasions when I have had to leave the church, the pastor then complained that I had refused to meet with him. When I wrote to tell those pastors that I agreed to meet, I would not hear from them further, they never scheduled the meeting, and then they said that I refused to meet. Brainwashed IFB church members will accept the word of their preacher and believe him rather than their fellow church member who was falsely accused. Unlike the Apostle Paul, who was entitled to a hearing even under Roman law (Acts 25:16), the falsely accused IFB church member will not be allowed a hearing - the pastor is judge, jury and executioner, and there is no place to appeal.

Word gets around that IFB churches are like this, that long-time faithful loyal members are framed, railroaded and treated like criminals over petty issues, and are unfairly run off without a hearing. People don't want to join churches that are like that. Of course, not all IFB pastors and churches are like that, but the reputation of the movement suffers from the IFB preachers who treat their people like dirt and get away with it.

 

[AverageJoe]

I'd like to add here that I have no hard feelings toward Dr. Lounsberry, Pastor David Coyle or his wife, Brenda, the administrator at the time (Pastor Rick Scarberry...who now has gone to be with the Lord), or anyone else associated with this college. It was unfortunate that my wife and I were pawns in several "games" between church members, college students, and administrators who were vying for power at that time. God had definite reasons for everything that transpired. I made many good friends at Averyville and Fellowship Baptist College, whom I am still friends with to this day. Though I feel that some of the players have been blinded by pharisaical tendencies, I still love and pray for them every day. The college is long gone from Averyville, having moved to a church in Mooresville, IN years ago (I don't know if the college is still open at this juncture), and has pretty much lost all of its validity at this point.

 

[Dr. Huk-N-Duck]

Having been raised in a legalistic, hateful, IFB church, and watching how the church refused to let my father serve in any way because he smoked cigarettes (he wasn't allowed to serve as a fill-in for SS teaching, for being an usher, singing in the choir, or even as a helper in the youth dept), I grew to know that these man-made, PREFERENCES were not based on Scripture, but who had their nose up someone else's behind! Sorry to be blunt here, but, that's about what it boiled down to. These actions against my dad ended up discouraging him to the point that he felt he wasn't worth much except to pay a tithe, open our home for youth activities and adult Bible studies because we had one of the largest homes in the church, and his cooking ability where he was "out of sight" of the public. Dad wasn't looking for the public eye...he already had it being self-employed. The people of the church who rejected him in the church didn't mind asking him for discounts in the Western store he was part owner of, often being bold enough to insist on one because they went to the same church as he did. This pissed me off to no end. Their attitude towards him in the church ended up being passed on to the family, and that was the end for me. As far as I was concerned, I wanted NOTHING to do with "fundamentalism", and rebelled against Christianity to some degree. I would publically question some of the stances of the church, much to the chagrin of the pastor, deacons, and even my parents. When these questions couldn't be answered by the Bible, I let the pastor and deacons know straight out that they were hypocrites trying to enforce man-made preferences over Biblical standards. Yes, I went to an IFB college after high school, and then to a second IFB college. I was expelled from the first college (who, incidentally, was a split off from BBC in Springfield, MO...Dr. Bobby Lounsberry was the president of the college when it started...Fellowship Baptist College in the Averyville Baptist Church in E. Peoria, IL...until he himself ended up divorced and disgraced...) I was dismissed because I stood up in chapel after my parents and their business partners were attacked by the college dean during an announcement from the pulpit..."Young ladies, you need not apply to Christian Brothers Western Store to work because you would be required to wear a pair of blue jeans and cowboy boots, just like the owners' wives, who look like sluts"...wrong thing to say about my mother....I let him know it, too, and demanded an apology right then and there...I eventually ended up with an apology from Bobby Lounsberry before he resigned from the church and college. At any rate, I stayed with the IFB churches until 2000, when my wife and I had had enough. Our pastor was standing in the pulpit defending a man named Joe Combs, a pastor over in E. Tennessee, stating that he had been set up by people who hated God, Fundamentalism and the Baptist church. Joe Combs and his wife had been arrested for child abuse, possible sexual misconduct, etc., and they were associated with HAC just as this pastor, his assistant pastor, and many in our church were. We got up in the middle of the service and left as he continued to defend this man. I haven't been back in the IFB circles since. We are members of a church in the SBC. I don't hate those in the IFB movement, but, I am often very leary of their judgemental, hateful doctrine and actions. They have to PROVE to me what their character is before I become comfortable with them.
I was a reader of the the website mentioned in the article...The preacher who helped me to finally leave the IFB movement was Evangelist Tim Lee, a Vietnam veteran who had lost his legs while in Nam. I am thankful for his influence in my life and the lives of many other friends I have.

I’m curious with your background, were you basically required to attend the IFB colleges by your parents or was that just your desire/choice?

 

[AverageJoe]

I’m curious with your background, were you basically required to attend the IFB colleges by your parents or was that just your desire/choice?

At 18 years of age my parents could hardly order me about. It was my choice, and mainly because I had friends who were attending there at that time. Another factor was that it was only 15 miles from my home. I didn't want to move out of state to other colleges I had applied to. The cost was also a factor. But, that being said, if I knew then what I know now, I would never have attended this college.