Are there any other Christian Universalist sympathisers here besides rsc2a?

[ALAYMAN]

...<nutty rant snipped>
This idolatry is a form of WITCHCRAFT. TAKE HEED!!

Mike, ahem, maybe it's already time for you to take another break from the forum, or at least take you meds so you can focus and make some sense.

Adding a tidbit here...the  bible tells us the purpose for hell. It was created for the Devil and his Angels
It was not created for humans. (Matthew 25:41)

lol, the current count of hell-denying Universalist sympathisers is up to at least three now.

FYI, Jesus spoke about hell more than he did heaven, and the verse you cite has Jesus casting the goats into that hell, which was ORIGINALLY created in chronological order of time for the devil and angels, but <unrepentant> man who in time fell after the angels did, joined the fate of the angels in their rebellion against God.

 

[ALAYMAN]

Do I hold to the classic fundamentals of the faith? Absolutely.

Am I a fundy? Assuredly not, especially if being a fundy means I will not even express a desire that God would save everyone. (I have asked you point blank if you desire to see anyone burn in Hell. You cannot even give me a simple "no".) God grant that He doesn't show you the mercy you apparently show to others.

Eze 18:23  Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?

In one sense we know that God doesn't delight in the necessity of His holy and just judgment against unrepentant sinners, but we also know from Scripture that not everyone will be saved (well, at least MOST of us know that Scriptures declare that).  I take great delight that the God of heaven is just, AND merciful, and as the patriarch said "shall not  the Judge of all the earth do right"?  He hath said...

Rom 9:18  Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
and
Rom 9:23  And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

You can accept these truths, that God is sovereign, or you can wrest them to your own destruction, but you are accountable to what He says and decides is His way of dealing with the sinner, and He has said that judgment and separation eternally come to those who do not repent and believe, in this life (Heb 9:27).

As far as representation, last time I checked, this is the internet...

On the original version of this forum the moderator, a fundamentalist, would not allow heresy to be propagated wholesale, and would take action in such cases.  He did so specifically when the evil_bible internet folk invaded the forum with the intent to disrupt and corrupt those young in the faith. 

But me, personally, I'm glad people get to read your words and know who you actually are, as it helps identify beliefs that should cause us reason for prayer and concern for many who profess to be evangelical/fundamental Christians (like Greg Boyd, Clark Pinnock, Rob Bell, and even some on this little ol forum).

 

[rsc2a]

Do I hold to the classic fundamentals of the faith? Absolutely.

Am I a fundy? Assuredly not, especially if being a fundy means I will not even express a desire that God would save everyone. (I have asked you point blank if you desire to see anyone burn in Hell. You cannot even give me a simple "no".) God grant that He doesn't show you the mercy you apparently show to others.

Eze 18:23  Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?

In one sense we know that God doesn't delight in the necessity of His holy and just judgment against unrepentant sinners, but we also know from Scripture that not everyone will be saved (well, at least MOST of us know that Scriptures declare that).  I take great delight that the God of heaven is just, AND merciful, and as the patriarch said "shall not  the Judge of all the earth do right"?  He hath said...

Rom 9:18  Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
and
Rom 9:23  And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

You can accept these truths, that God is sovereign, or you can wrest them to your own destruction, but you are accountable to what He says and decides is His way of dealing with the sinner, and He has said that judgment and separation eternally come to those who do not repent and believe, in this life (Heb 9:27).

Like I said, you cannot even answer that question with a simple "no".

Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness. These you ought to have done, without neglecting the others.

[quote author=ALAYMAN]

As far as representation, last time I checked, this is the internet...

On the original version of this forum the moderator, a fundamentalist, would not allow heresy to be propagated wholesale, and would take action in such cases.  He did so specifically when the evil_bible internet folk invaded the forum with the intent to disrupt and corrupt those young in the faith.  [/quote]

"You only believe that stuff 'cuz you're afraid to hang out with people that don't."

So glad we have the example of Paul, who only hung out with those people who believed exactly like himself...

(I also don't think you know what "heresy" actually means (or the historical views on either hell or the atonement) so I probably wouldn't drop that label lightly with your gnostic tendencies.)

[quote author=ALAYMAN]But me, personally, I'm glad people get to read your words and know who you actually are, as it helps identify beliefs that should cause us reason for prayer and concern for many who profess to be evangelical/fundamental Christians (like Greg Boyd, Clark Pinnock, Rob Bell, and even some on this little ol forum).[/quote]

Come on...you aren't even going to tackle the verses I provided? (Are those more of the verses you choose to ignore?) Here...I'll provide the text so you don't even have to look them up:

He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. - 1 John 2:2

For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all. - Rom 11:32

The last enemy to be destroyed is death. - 1 Cor 15:26

Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.  For as by the one man

 

[Recovering IFB]

I can where rsc2a is going with his argument. It does make me ponder such thoughts, but it is hard for me to ignore our Lords parable of sheep and goats.

 

[rsc2a]

I can where rsc2a is going with his argument. It does make me ponder such thoughts, but it is hard for me to ignore our Lords parable of sheep and goats.

I said in the other thread that there are dozens of passages either side could use to defend their position. It's also why I try not to be dogmatic about either one but balance both the "hopeful" answer with the "bring in the harvest" answer.

 

[Castor Muscular]

I said in the other thread that there are dozens of passages either side could use to defend their position.

True.  What I find amusing is that some people change the rules depending on their position on various doctrines.  For example, "all" means "all" and "whole world" means "whole world" in cases where it supports free-will, but not in cases where it supports universal salvation.  Go figure. 

I don't believe in universal salvation, but I have to admit there are verses that sound like they support it.  We'll find out, eventually. 

 

[ALAYMAN]

I can where rsc2a is going with his argument. It does make me ponder such thoughts, but it is hard for me to ignore our Lords parable of sheep and goats.

I said in the other thread that there are dozens of passages either side could use to defend their position. It's also why I try not to be dogmatic about either one but balance both the "hopeful" answer with the "bring in the harvest" answer.

Calvininsts have convincing arguments regarding the sovereignty of God in election, Arminians show prooftexts of "all" meaning all.  Maybe both are right, eh?


Methinks you should learn what the law of noncontradiction meaneth.

 

[rsc2a]

Still not willing to touch the verses I provided?



As far as the Calvinist / Arminian argument (you do know there are also other options, right?):

Does God choose? Yes.
Does man choose? Yes.

 

[BandGuy]

In one sense we know that God doesn't delight in the necessity of His holy and just judgment against unrepentant sinners, but we also know from Scripture that not everyone will be saved (well, at least MOST of us know that Scriptures declare that).  I take great delight that the God of heaven is just, AND merciful, and as the patriarch said "shall not  the Judge of all the earth do right"?  He hath said...

A few questions:  Do you jump for joy each time a lost soul is shown justice and cast into Hell?  If you had the opportunity, would you desire to forfeit your own testimony and even your own salvation and go rot in Hell for eternity if it meant bringing someone else to salvation?

 

[BandGuy]

I can where rsc2a is going with his argument. It does make me ponder such thoughts, but it is hard for me to ignore our Lords parable of sheep and goats.

I said in the other thread that there are dozens of passages either side could use to defend their position. It's also why I try not to be dogmatic about either one but balance both the "hopeful" answer with the "bring in the harvest" answer.

Calvininsts have convincing arguments regarding the sovereignty of God in election, Arminians show prooftexts of "all" meaning all.  Maybe both are right, eh?


Methinks you should learn what the law of noncontradiction meaneth.

I think you should learn the difference between a paradox and a contradiction.  In case you didn't know, they're not the same thing.

 

[rsc2a]

In one sense we know that God doesn't delight in the necessity of His holy and just judgment against unrepentant sinners, but we also know from Scripture that not everyone will be saved (well, at least MOST of us know that Scriptures declare that).  I take great delight that the God of heaven is just, AND merciful, and as the patriarch said "shall not  the Judge of all the earth do right"?  He hath said...

A few questions:  Do you jump for joy each time a lost soul is shown justice and cast into Hell?  If you had the opportunity, would you desire to forfeit your own testimony and even your own salvation and go rot in Hell for eternity if it meant bringing someone else to salvation?

I've point blank asked him several times if he would desire that no one burn in Hell and he has yet to say "no".

I also notice how he is tossing around the word "justice" when, in reality, no one who understands their own sin really wants justice...at least not justice for themselves. They want mercy. Of course, you do have those who would say, "God, I thank you that I am not like other men--robbers, evildoers, adulterers--or even like this tax collector."

 

[ALAYMAN]

I think you should learn the difference between a paradox and a contradiction.  In case you didn't know, they're not the same thing.

I'm sure you're just one step above a troll, because in addition to all your childish sniping constantly, you attempt to erect windmills to knock them down and claim victory Sancho.  I never one time used either words (nor concepts) in reference to the law of noncontradiction.  Arminians and Calvinists both cannot be right.  Both could be wrong, but it is logically impossible for both to be right.

 

[Izdaari]

  Arminians and Calvinists both cannot be right.  Both could be wrong, but it is logically impossible for both to be right.

Both can't be right IF they contradict each other, and it isn't just semantics. Overall, I think the Lutherans have soteriology more correct than either.

 

[ALAYMAN]

Both can't be right IF they contradict each other, and it isn't just semantics. Overall, I think the Lutherans have soteriology more correct than either.

Is it a contradiction that one scheme claims man is the primary causal agent in his own salvation and the other says that God is the primary agent?

 

[Izdaari]

Both can't be right IF they contradict each other, and it isn't just semantics. Overall, I think the Lutherans have soteriology more correct than either.

Is it a contradiction that one scheme claims man is the primary causal agent in his own salvation and the other says that God is the primary agent?

Yes, and I think God is the primary causal agent. But Calvinists do too much silly logic chopping, like a bunch of crazed Vulcans. It isn't susceptible to that.

 

[ALAYMAN]

Yes, and I think God is the primary causal agent. But Calvinists do too much silly logic chopping, like a bunch of crazed Vulcans. It isn't susceptible to that.

No arguments here, as I'm not a Calvinist.  I was merely highlighting the fact that BandBoy was erecting strawmen.