Are there any other Christian Universalist sympathisers here besides rsc2a?

[ALAYMAN]

Any other Rob Bell devotees want to step up to the mic on this "fundy" forum?  For you hell-deniers, does Love always Win?

 

[rsc2a]

Stuff Fundies Like: Misrepresenting the views of others

 

[ALAYMAN]

Stuff Fundies Like: Misrepresenting the views of others

Really? 

You haven't shown tendencies to sympathise with arguments favorable to Christian Universalism?

 

[Izdaari]

Hmm, sorta kinda, maybe, theoretically. But that's really about as far as Rob Bell goes with it too. I like him as a muser. I don't take him very seriously as a theologian. St. Gregory of Nyssa OTOH...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregory_of_Nyssa

I'm afraid I won't be much fun. I don't like to argue about it. Nor do I have a definite position on it to defend: I just have random musings that I'm not sure about... like Bell.

 

[Biker]

To the OP:
If you are referring to someone who believes God gives an equal chance to everyone to be saved then start a thread based on scripture. Break down each verse, put it in context of your argument, and explain why you believe what you believe based on those verses.

Thank you

 

[Recovering IFB]

Another Fundy/Pharisee  tactic, calling people out to draw attention to ones self. I see a lot of boasting going on at this forum, " hey look at me, others aren't as righteous as me! Look at these sinners who practice lawlessness"

 

[ALAYMAN]

To the OP:
If you are referring to someone who believes God gives an equal chance to everyone to be saved then start a thread based on scripture. Break down each verse, put it in context of your argument, and explain why you believe what you believe based on those verses.

Thank you

You need to study to understand what Christian Universalism is.  It is the belief that God saves all without exception through the atonement made by Christ.  That salvation (rsc2a refers to it as "predeterminism") will either be voluntary in this life, or achieved by God somehow in the afterlife (they refer to the passage where Jesus preached to the demons in prison while He was in the tomb for a large part of their proof here).

Another Fundy/Pharisee  tactic, calling people out to draw attention to ones self. I see a lot of boasting going on at this forum, " hey look at me, others aren't as righteous as me! Look at these sinners who practice lawlessness"

I'll take that as a "yes, I turn a blind eye to gross error, so long as it is opposed by somebody who I don't like".

lol, another idiot-used-to-be fundy who is now FREEEEEEEEE to declare all things acceptable, including the heresy of Christian Universalism. 

 

[Recovering IFB]

Ha ha Alayman, I love you, and hope someday you will see and learn what many of us has come to realize that we are indeed free from the law( Gal 5:1). I'm sorry that you are still stuck in a legalistic mindset,angry at the world. I have been there my friend. Let me tell this I have learned, God, does not need me to fight his bAttles for him. That's what the Holy Spirit is for.

 

[ALAYMAN]

Ha ha Alayman, I love you, and hope someday you will see and learn what many of us has come to realize that we are indeed free from the law( Gal 5:1). I'm sorry that you are still stuck in a legalistic mindset,angry at the world. I have been there my friend. Let me tell this I have learned, God, does not need me to fight his bAttles for him. That's what the Holy Spirit is for.

Your response lacks focus.  You are making this about me, the very thing you attempt to claim I am doing with my OP.  Are you somehow intimating that being free from the law/doctrines/commands of God/Christ means that grace enables you to stamp Christian Universalism as acceptable and orthodox?

 

[Recovering IFB]

No, you are right in some aspects of your argument, but your approach to this forum at times lacks any grace. Some people have not come out clearly and said what you are accusing them of.
Just because I left an ifb church doesn't necessarily mean I threw out the baby with the bathwater. I have met other believers from other denominations that believe the same foundations of  Scripture but may vary. In some minor detail,( music, dress, ect) I think a lot of ifb'ers really lack in the area of grace, unless they are in gross error of doctrine.  The gist I get from some believers some times that they haven't figured something's out quite yet or are afraid to go against denominational lines to say what they believe to be doctrinally true.

 

[Recovering IFB]

I'm doing this also from my iPhone , and it is hard to read as I'm typing, I'll have to finish this later from home

 

[Castor Muscular]

No, you are right in some aspects of your argument, but your approach to this forum at times lacks any grace.

That is by definition part of a Pharisaical or legalist view of the world.  I would define legalism the same as Wikipedia:

Legalism, in Christian theology, is a usually-pejorative term referring to an over-emphasis on discipline of conduct, or legal ideas, usually implying an allegation of misguided rigour, pride, superficiality, the neglect of mercy, and ignorance of the grace of God or emphasizing the letter of law over the spirit.

I don't think this last line of the paragraph is necessarily true of all legalists, though:

Legalism is alleged against any view that obedience to law, not faith in God's grace, is the pre-eminent principle of redemption.

I would change it to this:

Legalism is alleged against any view that obedience to law, not faith in God's grace, is the pre-eminent evidence of redemption.

EDIT:  In other words, I rarely see legalists say you must be obedient to the law in order to be saved.  But I frequently see legalists say that if you're not obedient to the law, it is reasonable to have doubts about your salvation.  The difference is subtle, I admit, since the latter implies the former. 

 

[ALAYMAN]

...
Legalism is alleged against any view that obedience to law, not faith in God's grace, is the pre-eminent principle of redemption.

I would change it to this:

Legalism is alleged against any view that obedience to law, not faith in God's grace, is the pre-eminent evidence of redemption.

Dude, you must have OCD.  Your obsession with all things "legalistic" causes you to see every conversation in those terms.  This thread is about Christian Universalism, not legalism.  It is incomprehensible to attempt to connect legalism to opposing Christian Universalism.

No, you are right in some aspects of your argument, but your approach to this forum at times lacks any grace. Some people have not come out clearly and said what you are accusing them of.
Just because I left an ifb church doesn't necessarily mean I threw out the baby with the bathwater. I have met other believers from other denominations that believe the same foundations of  Scripture but may vary. In some minor detail,( music, dress, ect) I think a lot of ifb'ers really lack in the area of grace, unless they are in gross error of doctrine.  The gist I get from some believers some times that they haven't figured something's out quite yet or are afraid to go against denominational lines to say what they believe to be doctrinally true.

Well, I'm not really trying to justify myself here, but this *is* the FIGHTING forum.  The nature of the beast is to spar, aggressively.  In many cases the people on here get offended by even daring to ask questions that offend them.  If a person opens the conversation up to controversial subjects there are those who come in right away lobbing bombs, then get offended when the grenade is tossed back in their foxhole.  But if people are reasonable and civil in conversations, like Sam Spade and others, I have no problem with their beliefs that contradict mine, and we discuss things substantively without strife.  So some of how I come across here is intentional to spice things up.  Let's face it, this place was on life support, and at least we've gotten some posters to come out of lurk mode.  In real life don't lack grace, but rather am certain about my beliefs, willing to defend them if necessary.

 

[Recovering IFB]

Alayman, you have a pm

 

[rsc2a]

So people will have some context:

[quote author=rsc2a][quote author=ALAYMAN]

I'm a pragmatic "Hell's hot and lasts forever", hopeful "God will eventually save everyone by the blood of Jesus" individual.

I also think the Bible speaks for both arguments and am smart enough to know that I don't know all the answers.

You don't know whether the Bible speaks about a universal, or a limited atonement?[/quote]

He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. - 1 John 2:2

For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all. - Rom 11:32

- Dozens more -

~ or ~

And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name. - Rev 14:11

Then he will answer them, saying,

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=ALAYMAN]You need to study to understand what Christian Universalism is.  It is the belief that God saves all without exception through the atonement made by Christ.  That salvation (rsc2a refers to it as "predeterminism") will either be voluntary in this life, or achieved by God somehow in the afterlife...[/quote]

You don't know what determinism is, do you?


[quote author=ALAYMAN]...(they refer to the passage where Jesus preached to the demons in prison while He was in the tomb for a large part of their proof here).[/quote]

And I've never used that passage to state where the Bible might say that God will ultimately save everyone. I've used other passages that seem to be much more explicit...those passages you keep ignoring (by your own admission where you said you are not ignoring "anything of substance" - as though Scripture lacks substance).

 

[ALAYMAN]

......and I would state again: Which is why I land where I land: pragmatic "Hell is hot and forever"-ist and hopeful universalist. You aren't hopeful that God will save everyone? You desire to see others burn?

You're already on record here skippy, so your nose has been counted.  The thread OP is for any other heretic-coddlers to step up to the plate.

Truth be told, the motivation for the thread was because I get a chuckle out of the fact that a "Fundamental" forum has representation from so many folks that don't own the name nor heritage.

 

[rsc2a]

Do I hold to the classic fundamentals of the faith? Absolutely.

Am I a fundy? Assuredly not, especially if being a fundy means I will not even express a desire that God would save everyone. (I have asked you point blank if you desire to see anyone burn in Hell. You cannot even give me a simple "no".) God grant that He doesn't show you the mercy you apparently show to others.

As far as representation, last time I checked, this is the internet...

 

[Biker]

The thread OP is for any other heretic-coddlers to step up to the plate.

Alayman Save it for someone who is really deluded, or allow us to call out the real perp of this crime, YOU.

According to your own definition of the secular label you applied to him, he holds an orthodox view of Christianity


Remember   Mickey Carter, a preacher in Florida. Ring a bell?? DING DING DING

The Cult church you visited some Sundays back. Enjoy the corporate worship of yourselves???


Cult members who deluded themselves into thinking God assigned a special version of the Bible JUST FOR THEM!! 

Racism is not cool. It opposes scripture. There is no special revelation similar to the prophets given to English speaking peoples via a version of the bible

Out of all the churches a Christian would attend, you picked this one. What are the odds?? 

You are sensitive to the Pharisee label because you keep posting indicating you ARE ONE. Duh :


It's scripture, scritpure scripture!!!! When you are told ON A CHRISTIAN DEBATE BOARD TO SUPPLY SUCH, THEN DO IT!!




Visiting A King James Only "church" WITHOUT  interrupting the service reciting the truth of the Bible is SHAMEFUL. At least walk out!!

There is no special inner power or revelation via the KJVO Bible. This is OF SATAN.

This idolatry is a form of WITCHCRAFT. TAKE HEED!!

 

[Biker]

Do I hold to the classic fundamentals of the faith? Absolutely.

Am I a fundy? Assuredly not, especially if being a fundy means I will not even express a desire that God would save everyone. (I have asked you point blank if you desire to see anyone burn in Hell. You cannot even give me a simple "no".) God grant that He doesn't show you the mercy you apparently show to others.

As far as representation, last time I checked, this is the internet...

Adding a tidbit here...the  bible tells us the purpose for hell. It was created for the Devil and his Angels
It was not created for humans. (Matthew 25:41)