12 years

[BALAAM]

rather than compare himself to a rescuer, or to a knight who fell off his horse while trying to "save" someone.... ... .  he would have done better comparing himself to a burglar who fell from a window of the house he was trying to rob.....  or got his foot run over by the car he was trying to high jack.... ..... .. any servant of God caught in sin who then compares himself to a knight shows he never possessed the humility required to serve as either one... .. 

it;s really too bad the judge couldn;t have heard his statement first and then decided whether or not to allow it.. ..  i don;t think he should have been allowed to make a statement like that to the court, to the family, or to anybody ... .. it was filled with pride, arrogance.. completely self centered....  putting himself in the place of God... still trying to make excuses right up to the very end.. ..  even trying to lecture the people he wronged .. ..  which in my opinion does nothing more than cause further pain to the people whose lives he has already ruined.. .... ..

Yes, Al you have a pretty good picture of js!

 

[prophet]

Part of the problem with quickly pleading guilty...you dont get to argue your side. 

Anishinabe

 

[prophet]

Part of the problem with quickly pleading guilty...you dont get to argue your side. 

Anishinabe

it;s probably better for him that he didn;t get to argue his side in a trial.. .. . if i had been the judge i would have tacked on another 10 years just for that last address to the court alone....  i don;t think a mere 12 in the slam will fix all that;s wrong with that attitude... .  but we;ll see.....

Not getting to tell your side leaves liars with a feeling that they are justifiably bitter over getting cheated by the system.  Seeing all of the evidence, in a trial, would have shut a lot of mouths for good.
O Well, now we have to wait for the white throne for that.

Anishinabe

 

[graceandtruth]

Part of the problem with quickly pleading guilty...you dont get to argue your side. 

Anishinabe

it;s probably better for him that he didn;t get to argue his side in a trial.. .. . if i had been the judge i would have tacked on another 10 years just for that last address to the court alone....  i don;t think a mere 12 in the slam will fix all that;s wrong with that attitude... .  but we;ll see.....

Not getting to tell your side leaves liars with a feeling that they are justifiably bitter over getting cheated by the system.  Seeing all of the evidence, in a trial, would have shut a lot of mouths for good.
O Well, now we have to wait for the white throne for that.

Anishinabe

I'm not quite getting your statement Prophet.  Who is being maligned by liars in your opinion?

 

[prophet]

Part of the problem with quickly pleading guilty...you dont get to argue your side. 

Anishinabe

it;s probably better for him that he didn;t get to argue his side in a trial.. .. . if i had been the judge i would have tacked on another 10 years just for that last address to the court alone....  i don;t think a mere 12 in the slam will fix all that;s wrong with that attitude... .  but we;ll see.....

Not getting to tell your side leaves liars with a feeling that they are justifiably bitter over getting cheated by the system.  Seeing all of the evidence, in a trial, would have shut a lot of mouths for good.
O Well, now we have to wait for the white throne for that.

Anishinabe

I'm not quite getting your statement Prophet.  Who is being maligned by liars in your opinion?

The liar...Dr. Shaaft, never had to face all the evidence.  He never got to try to use his warped 'logic' in front of a judge, who would tell him to shut up, or a prosecutor who would trip him up on cross-examination.  Sad truth is, the habitual liar still believes himself.  He will spend the next 12 years justifying his 'heroic' attempts, never admitting how many affairs he has had, and how many girls he has stalked.  His defensive, proud, arrogant, pharisaical last rant, was evidence.
  A trial would have brought out more proof of his character, dragged in many abuse victims, and showed him to be pure evil.  A case would have been built that exposed  abusive behaviour of many types...violent outbursts, threatenings, maniacal tirades, perverted lust, extravagant lifestyle, complete fiscal irreponsibility, manipulative extortion.  He would have,  and should have, been left speechless.  Now the hypnotized masses will hold onto a fictional folk hero, and there will be no healing. 
    Someone has to preach an expose, and authoritatively condemn all of this, using Jack Schaap's name publicly, from the fbch pulpit, and announcing beforehand that very topic....to finally close the door, and open the next one.  Till then, JW has a haunted house.
 

Anishinabe

 

[graceandtruth]

Part of the problem with quickly pleading guilty...you dont get to argue your side. 

Anishinabe

it;s probably better for him that he didn;t get to argue his side in a trial.. .. . if i had been the judge i would have tacked on another 10 years just for that last address to the court alone....  i don;t think a mere 12 in the slam will fix all that;s wrong with that attitude... .  but we;ll see.....

Not getting to tell your side leaves liars with a feeling that they are justifiably bitter over getting cheated by the system.  Seeing all of the evidence, in a trial, would have shut a lot of mouths for good.
O Well, now we have to wait for the white throne for that.

Anishinabe

I'm not quite getting your statement Prophet.  Who is being maligned by liars in your opinion?

The liar...Dr. Shaaft, never had to face all the evidence.  He never got to try to use his warped 'logic' in front of a judge, who would tell him to shut up, or a prosecutor who would trip him up on cross-examination.  Sad truth is, the habitual liar still believes himself.  He will spend the next 12 years justifying his 'heroic' attempts, never admitting how many affairs he has had, and how many girls he has stalked.  His defensive, proud, arrogant, pharisaical last rant, was evidence.
  A trial would have brought out more proof of his character, dragged in many abuse victims, and showed him to be pure evil.  A case would have been built that exposed  abusive behaviour of many types...violent outbursts, threatenings, maniacal tirades, perverted lust, extravagant lifestyle, complete fiscal irreponsibility, manipulative extortion.  He would have,  and should have, been left speechless.  Now the hypnotized masses will hold onto a fictional folk hero, and there will be no healing. 
    Someone has to preach an expose, and authoritatively condemn all of this, using Jack Schaap's name publicly, from the fbch pulpit, and announcing beforehand that very topic....to finally close the door, and open the next one.  Till then, JW has a haunted house.
 

Anishinabe

WHEW.........Thanks for the clarification.  You make some very valid points.

 

[RAIDER]

He will spend the next 12 years justifying his 'heroic' attempts, never admitting how many affairs he has had, and how many girls he has stalked.
  A trial would have brought out more proof of his character, dragged in many abuse victims
[/quote]

Is their rumor of more than one victim?

 

[prophet]

He will spend the next 12 years justifying his 'heroic' attempts, never admitting how many affairs he has had, and how many girls he has stalked.
  A trial would have brought out more proof of his character, dragged in many abuse victims

Is their rumor of more than one victim?
[/quote]                                              Have you not heard justasinner's testimony?  Also, I have spoken to people, who can reveal their own names if they choose, who said that Dr. Shaaft was a pervert all the way back in his Purdue Lafayette ministry (girls gone wild).  And you have heard testimony of his many other abusive behaviours, which lends creedence to the rumor mills.


Anishinabe

 

[RAIDER]

He will spend the next 12 years justifying his 'heroic' attempts, never admitting how many affairs he has had, and how many girls he has stalked.
  A trial would have brought out more proof of his character, dragged in many abuse victims

Is their rumor of more than one victim?

                                              Have you not heard justasinner's testimony?  Also, I have spoken to people, who can reveal their own names if they choose, who said that Dr. Shaaft was a pervert all the way back in his Purdue Lafayette ministry (girls gone wild).  And you have heard testimony of his many other abusive behaviours, which lends creedence to the rumor mills.


Anishinabe
[/quote]

Got it.  I thought there may have been rumors of more underaged girls.

 

[abp]

[Is their rumor of more than one victim?

Maybe this?

Lest we jump to hasty conclusions here I would like to add something.

I do not know the family of the girl personally and don't know if I have ever met them. I definitely have met 2 or 3 of the kids. But, they are relatives of relatives so what I am about to say is not firsthand but I believe it.

When this originally came out and the FBI started investigating, one of the investigators told the family that this is pretty much all they do and that js knew exactly what he was doing and was a pro. They said that they doubted this was the first time.

The family has recently said that 3 other girls have come forward. Now whether it was a criminal act or not I really don't know. But believe me, they had bucko goods on js and he plead guilty not because of his concern for the families but because he knew he was in some deep do-doo. This is hearsay but it came from a relative.

 

[prophet]

Thanks, I couldn't remember who had posted that.

Anishinabe

 

[BALAAM]

Yes. It was relatives of my relatives who are the victim's family and they have said this more than once. The FBI told them in the beginning that this was probably not a one time thing because this guy was a pro.

 

[lnf]

Sobering statistics, to be sure.

 

[Binaca Chugger]

For all the talk about helping the victim, this is an incredible read:

http://www.christianbook.com/wounded-adult-victims-childhood-sexual-abuse/dan-allender/9781600063077/pd/063070?en=google-pla&kw=christian-living-0-20&p=1167941&gclid=CK6G0tCOnbYCFcw7MgodrHAArQ

 

[Bull City Justice]

Lest we jump to hasty conclusions here I would like to add something.

I do not know the family of the girl personally and don't know if I have ever met them. I definitely have met 2 or 3 of the kids. But, they are relatives of relatives so what I am about to say is not firsthand but I believe it.

When this originally came out and the FBI started investigating, one of the investigators told the family that this is pretty much all they do and that js knew exactly what he was doing and was a pro. They said that they doubted this was the first time.

The family has recently said that 3 other girls have come forward. Now whether it was a criminal act or not I really don't know. But believe me, they had bucko goods on js and he plead guilty not because of his concern for the families but because he knew he was in some deep do-doo. This is hearsay but it came from a relative.

I have no reason to doubt that the victim in whose case Schaap pled guilty is not the only victim.  Also, as an attorney, I am very familiar with the prosecution practice of dismissing or foregoing prosecution on other possible charges based upon or in exchange for a guilty plea.  What troubles me is the possibility that there are indeed other victims (to criminal behavior - i.e. underage and/or unwanted sexual overtures, harassment, activity, etc.) who will be ignored by the criminal justice system only because the perpetrator made a plea deal with the feds that halted any further investigation or prosecution ...

this I find troubling

 

[BALAAM]

Okay, I have to tell you this.

I had to report for jury duty this week in Lake County, IN. Now, I think it would be very interesting and all and would not mind but due to the nature of my work it created a huge hardship if I was chosen. They don't call me during the slow season, you know. I sat there for hours and finally my number was called to be one of the twelve in the jury box. They question potential jurors and either keep you or dismiss you and I was trying desperately to find a way to be dismissed.

You have to fill out a questionnaire and one of the questions was, "Do you have either a relative or a close friend who is incarcerated?" I filled out the yes box. When I was seated in the jury box they said, "Juror number 39 you answered in the affirmative that you have a relative or close friend who has been incarcerated. Would you care to tell us about it?  I said out loud, The guy who was my pastor for over 10 years was sentenced just last week to 12 years in federal prison!"

They asked another juror a couple of questions and said number 147 and number 39, you are both dismissed!  (True Story) I am sure that most of the people there knew exactly what I was talking about as it made the front page of the paper more than once.

 

[prophet]

Okay, I have to tell you this.

I had to report for jury duty this week in Lake County, IN. Now, I think it would be very interesting and all and would not mind but due to the nature of my work it created a huge hardship if I was chosen. They don't call me during the slow season, you know. I sat there for hours and finally my number was called to be one of the twelve in the jury box. They question potential jurors and either keep you or dismiss you and I was trying desperately to find a way to be dismissed.

You have to fill out a questionnaire and one of the questions was, "Do you have either a relative or a close friend who is incarcerated?" I filled out the yes box. When I was seated in the jury box they said, "Juror number 39 you answered in the affirmative that you have a relative or close friend who has been incarcerated. Would you care to tell us about it?  I said out loud, The guy who was my pastor for over 10 years was sentenced just last week to 12 years in federal prison!"

They asked another juror a couple of questions and said number 147 and number 39, you are both dismissed!  (True Story) I am sure that most of the people there knew exactly what I was talking about as it made the front page of the paper more than once.

I love the naked truth!

Anishinabe

 

[Sherryh]

Okay, I have to tell you this.

I had to report for jury duty this week in Lake County, IN. Now, I think it would be very interesting and all and would not mind but due to the nature of my work it created a huge hardship if I was chosen. They don't call me during the slow season, you know. I sat there for hours and finally my number was called to be one of the twelve in the jury box. They question potential jurors and either keep you or dismiss you and I was trying desperately to find a way to be dismissed.

You have to fill out a questionnaire and one of the questions was, "Do you have either a relative or a close friend who is incarcerated?" I filled out the yes box. When I was seated in the jury box they said, "Juror number 39 you answered in the affirmative that you have a relative or close friend who has been incarcerated. Would you care to tell us about it?  I said out loud, The guy who was my pastor for over 10 years was sentenced just last week to 12 years in federal prison!"

They asked another juror a couple of questions and said number 147 and number 39, you are both dismissed!  (True Story) I am sure that most of the people there knew exactly what I was talking about as it made the front page of the paper more than once.

Last month I was on jury duty and being questioned....#15 Do you think it's wrong to drink beer,wine etc. I answered yes and was dismissed. The trial was a man that hit a person while driving drunk.

 

[Torrent v.2]

I'm not sure how to feel about Cindy. Read the Linda Murphrey Open Letter referenced above. Cindy grew up in that same atmosphere and yet she wrote a book glorifying Jack Hyles and even extolling Dave Hyles. Add to that the judge's statement about Jack Schaap firing the person who told Cindy about the "improper relationship/affair" and her lack of any action to stop or expose it.

Why do we glorify Beverly and Cindy for putting on a huge front that lead many to man worship?

She is caught just like Mob wives are caught.  The lifestyle is out of this world. Money, Money and more Money.  High living, and if you question anything it might come crumbling down and you know how easy it would be to crumble, so over the years she just learned to shut her mouth and play the party trumpet.

That is my take. Over the years, she never came off as anyone who would speak her mind independently of the "men of God." And I say "men of God" only because that is what they call themselves.  In my mind, many of them are just like the Pharisees who take well meaning, innocent young men and women who come under their influence and make then twice the children of hell that they are.  My heart goes out to you HAC people who bought it all, Lock stock and Barrell and gave your lives to it, only to come to your senses way too late. And when you looked at your family, the devastation was un-fixable.

 

[lnf]

torrent, I reply to give you hope, God can fix the unfixable.  He can redeem the time.  I've seen it in my own family.