1 Cor 8: A misunderstood, hand grenade text

[FSSL]

I grew up in, was educated in and ministered in IFB churches. However, ONLY in seminary, when I was forced to actually exegete 1 Corinthians did I really get the outworkings of this passage.

I have heard this passage used to support a litany of IFB, pharisaical issues (hair length on men, skirts on women, movies and, yes alchohol).

Paul was addressing people who have come out of idolatry in the temples of cultic prostitution. Meat, offered to idols, caused a stumbling block to the weak. It was the connection to the cult which caused issues for a few new believers coming out of the temples.

Hopefully the context would be studied by IFBrs. Our modern application is entirely different as it relates to abiblical standards, set up by certain Bible Colleges and legalistic churches.

 

[jimmudcatgrant]

I grew up in, was educated in and ministered in IFB churches. However, ONLY in seminary, when I was forced to actually exegete 1 Corinthians did I really get the outworkings of this passage.

I have heard this passage used to support a litany of IFB, pharisaical issues (hair length on men, skirts on women, movies and, yes alchohol).

Paul was addressing people who have come out of idolatry in the temples of cultic prostitution. Meat, offered to idols, caused a stumbling block to the weak. It was the connection to the cult which caused issues for a few new believers coming out of the temples.

Hopefully the context would be studied by IFBrs. Our modern application is entirely different as it relates to abiblical standards, set up by certain Bible Colleges and legalistic churches.

Fine, but the scripture says anything that is not of faith is sin.  That isn't limited to a few people coming out of temple cults.  Or do you think it is?  Do you believe that you can't make any applications today from any scripture?  I mean, God wasn't talking to any of us, was he?  Just trying to get a handle on what you apply to your life, and what you don't. I understand that we are a narcissistic society and are too quick sometimes to apply scripture to our lives, but words like anything and whatever are plain.

But let's say you are right and I Corinthians can't be applied to drinking alcohol.  What about this:

Romans 14:21-23 (HCSB)
21 It is a noble thing not to eat meat, or drink wine, or do anything that makes your brother stumble.
22 Do you have a conviction? Keep it to yourself before God. The man who does not condemn himself by what he approves is blessed.
23 But whoever doubts stands condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from a conviction, and everything that is not from a conviction is sin.

I think we can compare scripture with scripture and see what the truth is here.

 

[FSSL]

The wine was also connected to the cult.

If you are correct about your applications of 1Cor and Romans, why do you insist only on the issue of wine? What about meat? Are you vegetarian?

 

[jimmudcatgrant]

The wine was also connected to the cult.

If you are correct about your applications of 1Cor and Romans, why do you insist only on the issue of wine? What about meat? Are you vegetarian?

If all it said was meat or wine, you might have a point, but it continued on to use the word anything.  What does anything exclude?

Romans 14:21-23 (HCSB)
21 It is a noble thing not to eat meat, or drink wine, or do anything that makes your brother stumble.
22 Do you have a conviction? Keep it to yourself before God. The man who does not condemn himself by what he approves is blessed.
23 But whoever doubts stands condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from a conviction, and everything that is not from a conviction is sin.

 

[FSSL]

If a new Christian came out of the idolatry of alchoholism, I will not drink it in front of him.

If a new Christian came out of the idolatry of gambling addiction, I will not play Texas hold'em with him.

Do you see the direct applications here?

 

[FSSL]

Why dont you address "meat?" If your understanding is true, then why is meat never addressed by the IFBr?

 

[jimmudcatgrant]

Why dont you address "meat?" If your understanding is true, then why is meat never addressed by the IFBr?

If I am having a vegen over for dinner, and he/she is a Christian, I will not serve them meat.  Happy?

 

[FSSL]

Will it offend them if you eat meat?

Why are you snarky? Can I not challenge your wrong assumptions and application of a text?

 

[jimmudcatgrant]

Will it offend them if you eat meat?

Why are you snarky? Can I not challenge your wrong assumptions and application of a text?

You are the one beating the same drum.  It's just that I have no friends that are vegan and it never occured to me.  Now that you have brought it up, I get it.  Anything would mean meat whether it is listed or not.  Now can you admit that the scripture includes alcohol, and not just that offered to idols?  I mean, since we are talking about wrong assumptions and applications of a text.

 

[FSSL]

Reread what I said 4 posts up.

On another thread, you told rsc2a that you can have a good friendly  discussion without the snarkiness. I see why he does not want to continue with you. You cannot.

 

[jimmudcatgrant]

Reread what I said 4 posts up.

On another thread, you told rsc2a that you can have a good friendly  discussion without the snarkiness. I see why he does not want to continue with you. You cannot.

I am not sure what you are talking about, but I would glad to see where I said that.  I remember saying we were having a friendly discussion.  Can't friends get snarky (whatever it means as I am not familiar with it)? 

I guess you have never gotten snarky with any of your friends.  Now if it offends you, I will try not to do it once you define it.  Anything for the weaker brother.    Besides, I thought I was in the fighting forum and that a certain amount of snarkiness was ok.  Guess I misapplied that text as well.

 

[Thomas Cassidy]

I am not sure what you are talking about, but I would glad to see where I said that.  I remember saying we were having a friendly discussion.  Can't friends get snarky (whatever it means as I am not familiar with it)? 

He means, "I am losing this argument so I will attack my opponent and accuse him of being snarky. Works every time."

 

[rsc2a]

Why dont you address "meat?" If your understanding is true, then why is meat never addressed by the IFBr?

If I am having a vegen over for dinner, and he/she is a Christian, I will not serve them meat.  Happy?

Actually, not serving them meat isn't good enough. You shouldn't eat meat yourself. You shouldn't consider meat to be a legitimate option for Christians for fear of "offending a weaker brother". You also shouldn't go into a store that sells meat because someone might see you and think you are going in there to buy meat and get offended by that. And, even though the Bible has clear things to say about those who would say you can't eat meat and even gives examples where eating meat is a good thing, you should ignore all that so you don't offend these people. To say nothing of all the harm that eating too much meat can cause. In fact, I don't know how someone can really call themselves a Christian and not be convicted by their eating of meat.

 

[FSSL]

Exactly...

It is painfully obvious that the IFBs have totally missed the context and implications of this text. They see the word "wine" and they have blinders on when it comes to "meat."

What is being revealed is that the IFBs, on this thread, have not done any preliminary exegetical work on this passage. OR, if they have, they are unwilling to allow the word to inform them against their own preferences.

Traditions are nasty, blinding things.

 

[jimmudcatgrant]

Why dont you address "meat?" If your understanding is true, then why is meat never addressed by the IFBr?

If I am having a vegen over for dinner, and he/she is a Christian, I will not serve them meat.  Happy?

Actually, not serving them meat isn't good enough. You shouldn't eat meat yourself. You shouldn't consider meat to be a legitimate option for Christians for fear of "offending a weaker brother". You also shouldn't go into a store that sells meat because someone might see you and think you are going in there to buy meat and get offended by that. And, even though the Bible has clear things to say about those who would say you can't eat meat and even gives examples where eating meat is a good thing, you should ignore all that so you don't offend these people. To say nothing of all the harm that eating too much meat can cause. In fact, I don't know how someone can really call themselves a Christian and not be convicted by their eating of meat.

Agreed on the not eat meat in front of him.  Should have said it better.  So the bible says meat is okay, but you put your opinion over the bible, even questioning someone's Christianity if they do eat meat.  Nice.  Should we expect a new book with all your heretical theological ideas?

This is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever read:

"You shouldn't consider meat to be a legitimate option for Christians for fear of "offending a weaker brother". You also shouldn't go into a store that sells meat because someone might see you and think you are going in there to buy meat and get offended by that. And, even though the Bible has clear things to say about those who would say you can't eat meat and even gives examples where eating meat is a good thing, you should ignore all that so you don't offend these people."

So if the above is true, then no one should go in a convenience store that store that sells beer.  Are you TGL?

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=jimmudcatgrant]Agreed on the not eat meat in front of him.  Should have said it better.  So the bible says meat is okay, but you put your opinion over the bible, even questioning someone's Christianity if they do eat meat.  Nice.  Should we expect a new book with all your heretical theological ideas?

This is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever read:

"You shouldn't consider meat to be a legitimate option for Christians for fear of "offending a weaker brother". You also shouldn't go into a store that sells meat because someone might see you and think you are going in there to buy meat and get offended by that. And, even though the Bible has clear things to say about those who would say you can't eat meat and even gives examples where eating meat is a good thing, you should ignore all that so you don't offend these people."

So if the above is true, then no one should go in a convenience store that store that sells beer.  Are you TGL?
[/quote]

People that argue with themselves are strange creatures...

 

[FSSL]

There is a strange disconnect going on with jimmud... Actually, it may be because he is not reading... He obviously did not read mine.

 

[Bob H]

I have heard this passage used to support a litany of IFB, pharisaical issues (hair length on men, skirts on women, movies and, yes alchohol).

If I may digress a bit,  I grew up in Holiness circles {Not Pentecostal} and IBF's are not the only one who hold such views. I know of some independent pentecostal churches who make IBF"s look like liberals....just sayin.



Carry on

 

[jimmudcatgrant]

[quote author=jimmudcatgrant]Agreed on the not eat meat in front of him.  Should have said it better.  So the bible says meat is okay, but you put your opinion over the bible, even questioning someone's Christianity if they do eat meat.  Nice.  Should we expect a new book with all your heretical theological ideas?

This is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever read:

"You shouldn't consider meat to be a legitimate option for Christians for fear of "offending a weaker brother". You also shouldn't go into a store that sells meat because someone might see you and think you are going in there to buy meat and get offended by that. And, even though the Bible has clear things to say about those who would say you can't eat meat and even gives examples where eating meat is a good thing, you should ignore all that so you don't offend these people."

So if the above is true, then no one should go in a convenience store that store that sells beer.  Are you TGL?

People that argue with themselves are strange creatures...
[/quote]

There is a big difference between going into a store that sells meat and serving meat to a vegan weaker brother.  That is taking things to an unrealistic level.  I don't believe it is wrong to go into a store or restaurant that sells meat or alcohol.  That is simply ludicrous, and you suggested that, not I.  Your example is foolish.  You didn't answer my other question:  Are you TGL?  The convenience store thing was his idea.  Nice putting yourself in his camp.

 

[jimmudcatgrant]

There is a strange disconnect going on with jimmud... Actually, it may be because he is not reading... He obviously did not read mine.

I may not have read yours.  My old computer loses the server all the time.  What did you say that I missed?  I will be glad to address it.