Akron Baptist Temple, Home of World's Largest Sunday School, Now Closed

4everfsu said:
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That was interesting, but mostly sad. I didn't realize that Billington was a racist. Seems like a lot of the early IFBs had that problem. I know that the orginal pastor of my church was influenced (though not influenced towards racism) and educated in Arlington Baptist college, founded by J. Frank Norris, who was likewise allegedly a racist (allegedly a Klan member).

Here's a followup article that I thought was worthwhile...Local history: As Akron Baptist Temple is demolished, its glory days are remembered
 
ALAYMAN said:
That was interesting, but mostly sad. I didn't realize that Billington was a racist. Seems like a lot of the early IFBs had that problem. I know that the orginal pastor of my church was influenced (though not influenced towards racism) and educated in Arlington Baptist college, founded by J. Frank Norris, who was likewise allegedly a racist (allegedly a Klan member).
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From the biography I read about J Frank Norris, he wasn't a Klan member, but he had members (leaders) in his church in Fort Worth that were.

* it's been a few years since I read the biography, so my memory may be at fault.
 
abcaines said:
No but trying to inflate the numbers so a pastor looks successful is wrong.
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That is exactly what they would do. There was a case of David Wood's church. I think he wrote some soul winning materials or something. They would count like 2500 and put that in "The Sword of the Lord" and "Revival Fires" by Dennis Corle. (or maybe it was 1500). Someone from some publication came 4 or 5 weeks in a row and actually did their own count iad it was more like 900. They took the evidence public and the church reponded with a long, drawn out explanation, saying that they ran busses on Wed and did outdoor bible clubs on saturdays and Monday nights and many elderly shut who were sent tapes and tithed. It was a really far stretch to get to the 2500, but they stood by it.
 
Years ago, when First Baptist Church of Hammond, Indiana was having a "big day," they would contact other churches in the Chicago area, that had no connection with Hammond, and ask them to call in their attendance on that Sunday morning so it could be reported as part of their Hammond "big day" attendance. I don't know if they are still doing that. Also, a young man told me he had been baptized at First Baptist Church of Hammond 360 times. He left to join a church affiliated with Fairhaven, so apparently the Hammond water cure didn't take. :cool:

The Sword of the Lord reported 92 people saved at an outreach by a church in Chicago. I asked the church secretary of that church about that, and she scoffed and said that some soulwinners from out of town had gone to the park on behalf of that church and gotten some professions of faith, but apparently none of the converts ever joined or even visited the church.
 
illinoisguy said:
Years ago, when First Baptist Church of Hammond, Indiana was having a "big day," they would contact other churches in the Chicago area, that had no connection with Hammond, and ask them to call in their attendance on that Sunday morning so it could be reported as part of their Hammond "big day" attendance. I don't know if they are still doing that. Also, a young man told me he had been baptized at First Baptist Church of Hammond 360 times. He left to join a church affiliated with Fairhaven, so apparently the Hammond water cure didn't take. :cool:

The Sword of the Lord reported 92 people saved at an outreach by a church in Chicago. I asked the church secretary of that church about that, and she scoffed and said that some soulwinners from out of town had gone to the park on behalf of that church and gotten some professions of faith, but apparently none of the converts ever joined or even visited the church.
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When I lived in Battle Creek, MI, I went to a BJU church. Hyles heard that Battle Creek washard to win people in, so he sent a bus load of college students. They reported 105 Conversaions in one Sunday. Our pastor followed up, got the names and we visited each and every one. NOT ONE was truly a believer. NOT ONE.
 
Bob Jones VI said:
When I lived in Battle Creek, MI, I went to a BJU church. Hyles heard that Battle Creek washard to win people in, so he sent a bus load of college students. They reported 105 Conversaions in one Sunday. Our pastor followed up, got the names and we visited each and every one. NOT ONE was truly a believer. NOT ONE.
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That's just it. Do the 1-2-3 pray after me and that's all you need to get in the Kingdom. I'll bet they'd lead a whole group and count everyone in the crowd. I've seen this stumble many.

Billy Graham and Greg Laurie are/were slightly more genuine. At least they attempt to disciple those who come forward. My pastor was in charge of follow up at Harvest Crusades and at Harvest.

I've wondered if all these reported numbers are genuine, where is the societal reform one would expect from so many changed lives?
 
abcaines said:
I've wondered if all these reported numbers are genuine
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I might well be one of those "reported numbers" somewhere. I got visited by a door-to-door soulwinner in my dorm when I was in university, and she wasn't a JW (from whom I'd also received visits from time to time). She would not leave me alone. The only way to make her go away so I could get back to my homework was to pray the prayer with her. Of course I was already a firm believer.

So no, the numbers aren't always genuine.

The icing on the cake was the tract she gave me, which directed me to my own church. She was there on her own, not as part of any officially sanctioned outreach, so the church's attendance numbers didn't get to double-dip on my dramatic conversion experience. ;)
 
Ransom said:
I might well be one of those "reported numbers" somewhere. I got visited by a door-to-door soulwinner in my dorm when I was in university, and she wasn't a JW (from whom I'd also received visits from time to time). She would not leave me alone. The only way to make her go away so I could get back to my homework was to pray the prayer with her. Of course I was already a firm believer.

So no, the numbers aren't always genuine.

The icing on the cake was the tract she gave me, which directed me to my own church. She was there on her own, not as part of any officially sanctioned outreach, so the church's attendance numbers didn't get to double-dip on my dramatic conversion experience. ;)
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That's why you passed the test to become admin here. You're double saved.
 
Walt said:
From the biography I read about J Frank Norris, he wasn't a Klan member, but he had members (leaders) in his church in Fort Worth that were.

* it's been a few years since I read the biography, so my memory may be at fault.
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Yeah, there wasn't any smoking gun, per se, and it could be argued that Norris was a product of his times and geographic demographic, but I was intending my observation in the broader context of the Akron Baptist Temple (and Dallas F. Billington) article about racism in IFB circles (think Bob Jones, G.B. Vick, etc).

Good to see you posting again Walt.
 
illinoisguy said:
Years ago, when First Baptist Church of Hammond, Indiana was having a "big day," they would contact other churches in the Chicago area, that had no connection with Hammond, and ask them to call in their attendance on that Sunday morning so it could be reported as part of their Hammond "big day" attendance. I don't know if they are still doing that. Also, a young man told me he had been baptized at First Baptist Church of Hammond 360 times. He left to join a church affiliated with Fairhaven, so apparently the Hammond water cure didn't take. :cool:
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Wow! 360 times!! I pray that this will open they eyes of those that read it to the wretchedness of this system.
 
ALAYMAN said:
Yeah, there wasn't any smoking gun, per se, and it could be argued that Norris was a product of his times and geographic demographic, but I was intending my observation in the broader context of the Akron Baptist Temple (and Dallas F. Billington) article about racism in IFB circles (think Bob Jones, G.B. Vick, etc).

Good to see you posting again Walt.
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Thanks. I do enjoy discussions about topics like this... sadly, many of the topics just deteriorated into name calling.
 
ALAYMAN said:
3 of the top 10 hailing from Ohio, interesting. As I look around our tri-state, and make casual historical observations, it makes sense as to the impact of the impact of IFBs made in the area, and unfortunately (or fortunately according to some other perspectives) I see the waning influence of such conservative theological churches in favor of the Furtick/Warren/Hybels models.
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You got that right. "The church growth methods popularized today are nothing more than a repackaging of liberal Harry Emerson Fosdick's philosophy"......... which these guys do.
 
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