Smoking Deacon

[FundNoMore]

A while back, I shared one of many reasons I left IFB Dom years ago. In summary, a well known preacher told a Sword conference crowd that he was informed (by phone) that a Sunday School teacher was drinking alcohol. The preacher did not visit this teacher, but just called him and told him he was no longer teaching Sunday School. The callousness of this famous so-called MOG appalled me.
In contrast a friend shared a story from his church last Sunday. The preacher recounted that years ago he needed to speak to one of the church deacons and when he arrived, the deacon was coming out of his garage smoking a cigar. Upon seeing the preacher, the deacon put the cigar behind his back, dropped it on the ground and stepped on it. The preacher spoke to him about the church issues first and then told him, "you know, you can't be a deacon at the church and be a smoker." The deacon sadly replied, "I know, preacher, I will submit my resignation." The preacher said he really liked this man and that he was a good deacon for the church and he told him, "I dont want you to stop being a deacon, I want you to stop smoking. Why give Satan the victory here?" The man agreed with the preacher and decided to stop smoking. He continued to be a deacon at that church for many years after.
I wonder if that famous "MOG" had tried to salvage the Sunday School teacher rather than cast him out, if he would have overcome the drinking and continued his service to God?
Why give Satan the victory?

 

[abcaines]

I wonder if that famous "MOG" had tried to salvage the Sunday School teacher rather than cast him out, if he would have overcome the drinking and continued his service to God?
Why give Satan the victory?

In principle, I agree. However, how much was this SS teacher drinking? Was he taken by the drinking? Or was he just seen at a restaurant with a wine glass on the table? Either way, Famous MOG was off base in his handling of the situation. If a pastor wants folks teaching under his authority to abstain, that's certainly his prerogative. However just because someone lifts a glass to their lips, that doesn't mean he's a lush.

The cigar smoking deacon just as likely could have been a "non-smoker". I have known plenty of people who would smoke the occasional cigar but that was their only tobacco use. I used to do the same. Now, if the preacher doesn't want his deacons using tobacco at all, whether addicted or not, that's his choice. That preacher showed great wisdom and grace in the handling of the situation. If the deacon wasn't addicted to tobacco, his decision to quit was simple.

In both my ministry at Church and within CMA, I am STRONGLY advised to abstain from both. To me, the point is moot; I have decided to abstain for my own reasons.

 

[Dr. Huk-N-Duck]

A while back, I shared one of many reasons I left IFB Dom years ago. In summary, a well known preacher told a Sword conference crowd that he was informed (by phone) that a Sunday School teacher was drinking alcohol. The preacher did not visit this teacher, but just called him and told him he was no longer teaching Sunday School. The callousness of this famous so-called MOG appalled me.
In contrast a friend shared a story from his church last Sunday. The preacher recounted that years ago he needed to speak to one of the church deacons and when he arrived, the deacon was coming out of his garage smoking a cigar. Upon seeing the preacher, the deacon put the cigar behind his back, dropped it on the ground and stepped on it. The preacher spoke to him about the church issues first and then told him, "you know, you can't be a deacon at the church and be a smoker." The deacon sadly replied, "I know, preacher, I will submit my resignation." The preacher said he really liked this man and that he was a good deacon for the church and he told him, "I dont want you to stop being a deacon, I want you to stop smoking. Why give Satan the victory here?" The man agreed with the preacher and decided to stop smoking. He continued to be a deacon at that church for many years after.
I wonder if that famous "MOG" had tried to salvage the Sunday School teacher rather than cast him out, if he would have overcome the drinking and continued his service to God?
Why give Satan the victory?

Odds he actually never smoked a cigar again? Near zero….

 

[Ekklesian]

A while back, I shared one of many reasons I left IFB Dom years ago. In summary, a well known preacher told a Sword conference crowd that he was informed (by phone) that a Sunday School teacher was drinking alcohol. The preacher did not visit this teacher, but just called him and told him he was no longer teaching Sunday School. The callousness of this famous so-called MOG appalled me.
In contrast a friend shared a story from his church last Sunday. The preacher recounted that years ago he needed to speak to one of the church deacons and when he arrived, the deacon was coming out of his garage smoking a cigar. Upon seeing the preacher, the deacon put the cigar behind his back, dropped it on the ground and stepped on it. The preacher spoke to him about the church issues first and then told him, "you know, you can't be a deacon at the church and be a smoker." The deacon sadly replied, "I know, preacher, I will submit my resignation." The preacher said he really liked this man and that he was a good deacon for the church and he told him, "I dont want you to stop being a deacon, I want you to stop smoking. Why give Satan the victory here?" The man agreed with the preacher and decided to stop smoking. He continued to be a deacon at that church for many years after.
I wonder if that famous "MOG" had tried to salvage the Sunday School teacher rather than cast him out, if he would have overcome the drinking and continued his service to God?
Why give Satan the victory?

As far as I m concerned, smoking isn't a vice.

And my question to the accuser of the one 'drinking', after informing him that God requires two or more witnesses, would be, Was he drunken?

 

[voicecrying]

The thread title brought back memories of TRB talking about his smokin' wife. I wonder what brand of cigars she smoked?

 

[FundNoMore]

In principle, I agree. However, how much was this SS teacher drinking? Was he taken by the drinking? Or was he just seen at a restaurant with a wine glass on the table? Either way, Famous MOG was off base in his handling of the situation. If a pastor wants folks teaching under his authority to abstain, that's certainly his prerogative. However just because someone lifts a glass to their lips, that doesn't mean he's a lush.

The cigar smoking deacon just as likely could have been a "non-smoker". I have known plenty of people who would smoke the occasional cigar but that was their only tobacco use. I used to do the same. Now, if the preacher doesn't want his deacons using tobacco at all, whether addicted or not, that's his choice. That preacher showed great wisdom and grace in the handling of the situation. If the deacon wasn't addicted to tobacco, his decision to quit was simple.

In both my ministry at Church and within CMA, I am STRONGLY advised to abstain from both. To me, the point is moot; I have decided to abstain for my own reasons.

Ah. You ask the MOG to explain too much. Lol. From my memory of the sermon, the person on the phone told the MOG that the SS teacher and his wife were seen out "at a nightclub" (his words) drinking. So the MOG just made a phone call. No personal visit. No asking if there was a problem that led to the drinking. No offer of counseling or even prayer. Just the usual IFB reaction, be gone sinner!
And that was my last interaction with "those guys".

 

[abcaines]

Ah. You ask the MOG to explain too much. Lol. From my memory of the sermon, the person on the phone told the MOG that the SS teacher and his wife were seen out "at a nightclub" (his words) drinking. So the MOG just made a phone call. No personal visit. No asking if there was a problem that led to the drinking. No offer of counseling or even prayer. Just the usual IFB reaction, be gone sinner!
And that was my last interaction with "those guys".

Yup. So much for approaching the person yourself or two witnesses.

 

[ALAYMAN]

The thread title brought back memories of TRB talking about his smokin' wife. I wonder what brand of cigars she smoked?

Lol, great (and immature ) minds think alike.

 

[ALAYMAN]

Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

While Mr. Spurgeon was living at Nightingale Lane, Clapham, an excursion was one day organised by one of the young men's classes at the Tabernacle. The brake with the excursionists was to call for the President on their way to mid-Surrey.
It was a beautiful early morning, and the men arrived in high spirits, pipes and cigars alight, and looking forward to a day of unrestrained enjoyment. Mr. Spurgeon was ready waiting at the gate. He jumped up to the box-seat reserved for him, and looking round with an expression of astonishment, exclaimed: "What, gentlemen! Are you not ashamed to be smoking so early?"
Here was a damper! Dismay was on every face. Pipes and cigars one by one failed and dropped out of sight.
When all had disappeared, out came the President's cigar-case. He lit up and smoked away serenely.
The men looked at him astonished. "I thought you said you objected to smoking, Mr. Spurgeon?" one ventured.
"Oh no, I did not say I objected. I asked if they were not ashamed, and it appears they were, for they have all put their pipes away."

 

[aleshanee]

Lol, great (and immature ) minds think alike.

i tried to smoke a cigar once..... not out of curiosity - but out of a weird and mistaken sense that it would serve as a protest to the person who brought it with him and had just lit it up... ...that didn;t go well for me... .. ...but my dad still laughs about it to this day.... he still smokes cigars too.. ..but i never did anything like that again.... ..smoking is definitely not for me.... ..but i did learn something that day.... the smell of a cigar burning is much more pleasing and tolerable than the actual taste of one inhaled is..... of course the smell of tobacco by itself not being burned is even more pleasing than that... .. but they say that
takes all the fun out of it.....

 

[abcaines]

How people get started on cigars (including myself) is beyond me. I don't know of anyone that didn't end up puking their guts out on that first cigar.

For me, the nail in the coffin for cigar smoking was the horrible taste it left in my mouth for days after even one cigar. I thought pipes would be better... turns out they were high maintenance and my clothes smelled like I was smoking cigarettes.

 

[Dr. Huk-N-Duck]

i tried to smoke a cigar once..... not out of curiosity - but out of a weird and mistaken sense that it would serve as a protest to the person who brought it with him and had just lit it up... ...that didn;t go well for me... .. ...but my dad still laughs about it to this day.... he still smokes cigars too.. ..but i never did anything like that again.... ..smoking is definitely not for me.... ..but i did learn something that day.... the smell of a cigar burning is much more pleasing and tolerable than the actual taste of one inhaled is..... of course the smell of tobacco by itself not being burned is even more pleasing than that... .. but they say that
takes all the fun out of it.....

I agree, the smell of a cigar is vastly superior to the actual smoking of it. Years ago I used to occasionally smoke one when I was visiting the Ybor City area of Tampa. A hot cup of cafe con leche (Cuban coffee) and a freshly rolled cigar was heaven, except I couldn’t handle the lingering stench of the smoke on my fingers and clothes, so eventually I decided I didn’t want to smoke another one. The last one I smoked was probably at least fifteen years ago.

 

[4everfsu]

I agree, the smell of a cigar is vastly superior to the actual smoking of it. Years ago I used to occasionally smoke one when I was visiting the Ybor City area of Tampa. A hot cup of cafe con leche (Cuban coffee) and a freshly rolled cigar was heaven, except I couldn’t handle the lingering stench of the smoke on my fingers and clothes, so eventually I decided I didn’t want to smoke another one. The last one I smoked was probably at least fifteen years ago.

Are your from Tampa? Or do you visit there often? Nothing like a good cuban sandwich!

 

[ALAYMAN]

I like the smell of cigars, but I’ve never tried one, and probably never will, not just so I can keep my Pedegree as a good fundamentalist, but I don’t really like puking all that well.

 

[Dr. Huk-N-Duck]

Are your from Tampa? Or do you visit there often? Nothing like a good cuban sandwich!

I’m from the Charleston, SC area but I moved to Florida after college for graduate school and have been here since. I currently live about an hour north of the Tampa area. I’ve also been in the Chiefland and Crystal River areas (job dependent). However, I have family down in the Tampa area, so I’ve been visiting my whole life.

 

[AverageJoe]

In the IFB church where I grew up, my father used to substitute for the SS teacher every now and then in the adults. When the pastor found out that he smoked, he could no long do so....he couldn't usher in the church, nor could he sing in the choir.

 

[FundNoMore]

A while back, I shared one of many reasons I left IFB Dom years ago. In summary, a well known preacher told a Sword conference crowd that he was informed (by phone) that a Sunday School teacher was drinking alcohol. The preacher did not visit this teacher, but just called him and told him he was no longer teaching Sunday School. The callousness of this famous so-called MOG appalled me.
In contrast a friend shared a story from his church last Sunday. The preacher recounted that years ago he needed to speak to one of the church deacons and when he arrived, the deacon was coming out of his garage smoking a cigar. Upon seeing the preacher, the deacon put the cigar behind his back, dropped it on the ground and stepped on it. The preacher spoke to him about the church issues first and then told him, "you know, you can't be a deacon at the church and be a smoker." The deacon sadly replied, "I know, preacher, I will submit my resignation." The preacher said he really liked this man and that he was a good deacon for the church and he told him, "I dont want you to stop being a deacon, I want you to stop smoking. Why give Satan the victory here?" The man agreed with the preacher and decided to stop smoking. He continued to be a deacon at that church for many years after.
I wonder if that famous "MOG" had tried to salvage the Sunday School teacher rather than cast him out, if he would have overcome the drinking and continued his service to God?
Why give Satan the victory?

The purpose of this post was not to discuss smoking or drinking as Christians, but only the 2 different approaches by different pastors. The man at my friend's church exhibited grace whereas the famous MOG show no care about what was going on in the life of his Sunday school teacher. It seems that only one of these men were restored. I agree that churches can make any requirement for those who serve in leadership positions, but as Christians, we should use the scriptures and consult Holy Spirit on how we live our lives.

 

[ALAYMAN]

The purpose of this post was not to discuss smoking or drinking as Christians, but only the 2 different approaches by different pastors. The man at my friend's church exhibited grace whereas the famous MOG show no care about what was going on in the life of his Sunday school teacher. It seems that only one of these men were restored. I agree that churches can make any requirement for those who serve in leadership positions, but as Christians, we should use the scriptures and consult Holy Spirit on how we live our lives.

Your intent for the thread, and the redirection of that intent is perfectly understandable. The truth is, however, nobody here is going to defend such decision making from a pastor. That conversation would end quickly. However, there has been some tangential and interesting discussion flowing from the subject. As light as the traffic is around here anymore, you ought to be glad there’s more than just two responses, lol. That is, of course, unless you just want everybody to pile on all the IFBX stuff that’s stupid like that found in the “IFB Preacher Clips” thread.

 

[aleshanee]

I agree, the smell of a cigar is vastly superior to the actual smoking of it. Years ago I used to occasionally smoke one when I was visiting the Ybor City area of Tampa. A hot cup of cafe con leche (Cuban coffee) and a freshly rolled cigar was heaven, except I couldn’t handle the lingering stench of the smoke on my fingers and clothes, so eventually I decided I didn’t want to smoke another one. The last one I smoked was probably at least fifteen years ago.

what i did was kinda dumb... very impulsive and totally unexpected - even to me.... ..it happened when we were whale watching at makapuu... and when my dad who was sitting up wind from me on the rocks lit up a cigar... . the wind started blowing the smoke toward me and i told him if he was going to smoke that i would end up smoking it too.... (i meant the second hand smoke.. but the whole thing went another way moments later).. he apologized - said he would move down wind and started to get up...

but i blurted out "that;s not what i meant!".. and i jumped up and grabbed the cigar out of his hand... ran a few steps away from him... and took a huge deep draw on it.... ..i have no idea what came over me or why i did that... but i instantly regretted it... i choked and couldn;t breathe... felt both lungs on fire... was instantly nauseated and barfed up all the water i drank earlier.... ..then started crying.... my dad said i turned green and he couldn;t resist laughing about it and couldn;t believe what he had just seen... ..i couldn;t believe i had just done it;.......subconciously i might have thought i could teach him a lesson doing something dumb... ...i wrote about it on the old fff the day after it happened...

 

[Dr. Huk-N-Duck]

what i did was kinda dumb... very impulsive and totally unexpected - even to me.... ..it happened when we were whale watching at makapuu... and when my dad who was sitting up wind from me on the rocks lit up a cigar... . the wind started blowing the smoke toward me and i told him if he was going to smoke that i would end up smoking it too.... (i meant the second hand smoke.. but the whole thing went another way moments later).. he apologized - said he would move down wind and started to get up...

but i blurted out that;s not what i meant.. and i jumped up and grabbed the cigar out of his hand... ran a few steps away from him... and took a huge deep draw on it.... ..i have no idea what came over me or why i did that... but i instantly regretted it... i choked and couldn;t breathe... felt both lungs on fire... was instantly nauseated and barfed up all the water i drank earlier.... ..then started crying.... my dad said i turned green and he couldn;t resist laughing about it and couldn;t believe what he had just seen... ..i couldn;t believe i had just done it;.......subconciously i might have thought i could teach him a lesson doing something dumb... ...i wrote about it on the old fff the day after it happened...

LOL…well, it taught you not to smoke, so some good came from it!