Which country handles porn the best?

[Castor Muscular]

Please correct me if I'm wrong on any of these...

The USA makes no effort to block porn at all, except maybe to require that you click a button that says you're over 18 years old.  I'm not sure if that's a law or not, but suffice it to say that porn is freely available to anyone in the USA.

I believe the UK just passed a law that will block all Internet access to porn.  You, as a customer of an ISP (Internet Service Provider) must specifically request access to porn in order to get it. 

China blocks all porn, and you have no legal or legitimate means to access it.  Technically savvy users can subscribe to a VPN outside China, which allows them to access porn illegally.  But the default is no porn. 

Japanese porn is widely available, but it is censored (they make it difficult to see the genitals).  This one baffles me the most.  Why is Japanese porn censored? Is that supposed to make it family-friendly or something?

Japanese Dad: Hey kids, let's watch this DVD I just bought.
Japanese Mom: Are you sure that's appropriate for children?
Japanese Dad: Don't worry, honey, the genitals are all pixelated so you can't really see them.
Japanese Mom: Oh, okay. I'll make some popcorn!

Islamic countries probably have access to goat porn or something.  Just kidding.  I have no idea. 

Given the mixture of libertarians and hard core IFBs here, what say you?  Which approach do you favor?

 

[Sherryh]

Castor of course I would vote to remove it.... sin doesn't go away.

 

[Castor Muscular]

Castor of course I would vote to remove it.... sin doesn't go away.

So you'd say China has the right idea?

EDIT: Don't be ashamed to say it if that's what you believe.  Personally, I like China's approach the best, and that's very difficult for me to admit, because I'm a libertarian at heart.  I've seen how Chinese kids turn out as a result of heavy censorship of porn and bad entertainment in general.  And since it's basically country-wide (with few exceptions, like those who get a vpn), there's little danger of your kids getting exposed to these things at school.  That's not to say China is pure goodness (there's lots of prostitution, drunkenness, irresponsible fathers, etc.) but kids aren't readily exposed to the bad stuff virtually everywhere like they are here. 

Family censorship in the USA really doesn't work very well when your kids go to public school, because they go to school with kids who are unsupervised and get involved in all kinds of bad stuff available on the Internet.  I censored things very heavily in my home, and it was all for naught because my kids were exposed to the worst of the worst at school.  They came home knowing urban slang about sexual things that I never heard of, and I'm pretty savvy. 

 

[Ransom]

"Which country handles porn the best" is kind of like asking "which country handles abortion the best."

 

[Castor Muscular]

"Which country handles porn the best" is kind of like asking "which country handles abortion the best."

Is there a country where abortion is totally banned?  I'd pick that one. 

EDIT: According to Wikipedia: "Seven countries (in Latin America and Europe) ban the procedure entirely." 

Malta bans it in all cases.  "In Ireland abortion is illegal with the exception of cases where a woman's life is endangered by the continuation of her pregnancy (see Abortion in the Republic of Ireland). Andorra allows for abortions only when there is a threat to the woman's life."

So some countries do handle it better than others, IMO. 

 

[pastorryanhayden]

Castor,

Must you always introduce seedy, borderline (or sometimes totally) inappropriate topics to the forum?

Seriously??

I'm not trying to be the prudish uncle here but when I go to a Christian forum it would be nice to not have to think through topics like pornography or wade through a sea of profanity to have a conversation about issues in fundamentalism.

 

[Ransom]

Ireland banned all abortions until last week, when they passed a law permitting therapeutic ones.

 

[Castor Muscular]

Castor,

Must you always introduce seedy, borderline (or sometimes totally) inappropriate topics to the forum?

Seriously??

I'm not trying to be the prudish uncle here but when I go to a Christian forum it would be nice to not have to think through topics like pornography or wade through a sea of profanity to have a conversation about issues in fundamentalism.

It is an interesting topic, because it intersects freedom of speech and morals, and it is one of the few areas where I think it's worthwhile to trump freedom of speech with morals.  That's a difficult position to take for a Constitutional originalist, which I am.

The problem is that I am not sure I buy into the idea that porn is an expression of free speech.  I'd like to hear opinions from those who think the Constitution was meant to protect such "speech". 

 

[ddgently]

Castor,

Must you always introduce seedy, borderline (or sometimes totally) inappropriate topics to the forum?

Seriously??

I'm not trying to be the prudish uncle here but when I go to a Christian forum it would be nice to not have to think through topics like pornography or wade through a sea of profanity to have a conversation about issues in fundamentalism.

Cheap shot alert: I'm not surprised that the phrases "it would be nice not to have to think through topics" and "have a conversation about issues in fundamentalism" are in the same sentence. (In a managawd voice) "None of that thinking for you. You leave the thinking to God and your pastor!"

On a serious note, as a pastor, don't you have to think about issues such as this. Pornography use is rampant in the church, as it is in society at large.

It is an interesting topic, because it intersects freedom of speech and morals, and it is one of the few areas where I think it's worthwhile to trump freedom of speech with morals.  That's a difficult position to take for a Constitutional originalist, which I am.

The problem is that I am not sure I buy into the idea that porn is an expression of free speech.  I'd like to hear opinions from those who think the Constitution was meant to protect such "speech".

Constitutionally, I think you start with what the Framer's intended and the law meant at the time and then see how it's evolved through court decisions to the present. I think freedom of speech is SO important that we should be careful of any type of censorship.

On the other hand, SCOTUS has held that obscenity gets no free speech protection. The Miller test gives guidelines as to how to identify obscenity. It is a three-prong test that asks the following questions:

(1) Whether "the average person, applying contemporary community standards", would find that the work, taken as a whole, appeals to the prurient interest,

(2) Whether the work depicts or describes, in a patently offensive way, sexual conduct specifically defined by applicable state law,

(3) Whether the work, taken as a whole, lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value.

Most internet pornography is almost certainly obscene. The problem with trying to censor it is that you would grab a lot of non-obscene material along with it, which would obviously suppress others' legitimate speech interests.

 

[Castor Muscular]

On the other hand, SCOTUS has held that obscenity gets no free speech protection.

SCOTUS also says abortion it protected by the Constitution.  While I might personally agree that obscenity gets no free speech protection, SCOTUS is unfortunately an unreliable source for proving it one way or another. 

 

[ddgently]

On the other hand, SCOTUS has held that obscenity gets no free speech protection.

SCOTUS also says abortion it protected by the Constitution.  While I might personally agree that obscenity gets no free speech protection, SCOTUS is unfortunately an unreliable source for proving it one way or another.

Well, whether or not you agree with it, their's is the opinion that counts!

 

[pastorryanhayden]

Maybe I missed the point of the forum.  My ears are still ringing from the Asian name thing from last week and I may be a little oversensitive.
You are right about the issues if dealing with pornography in the church.  It is a rampant problem.  Unfortunately, I don't think there is any easy solution.

 

[Castor Muscular]

On the other hand, SCOTUS has held that obscenity gets no free speech protection.

SCOTUS also says abortion it protected by the Constitution.  While I might personally agree that obscenity gets no free speech protection, SCOTUS is unfortunately an unreliable source for proving it one way or another.

Well, whether or not you agree with it, their's is the opinion that counts!

True.  But I'll never "get" Roe v. Wade.  Life begins at conception.  That's a scientific fact.  The Constitution is designed to protect our creator-given rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.  That's an historical fact.  It's a slam-dunk against abortion unless the life of the mother is at risk (which is extremely rare), in which case someone must choose which life to protect.  Either way, the Constitution is meant to protect life, not end it at the will of the mother. 

 

[Sherryh]

Its like let's clean counters of beer and cigarettes..... its not going away sadly

 

[pastorryanhayden]

Castor,
Wanted to apologize for my post this morning.  I hastily read your post and came to a wrong conclusion.
I agree with your position that pornography is not free speech.  Pornography is incredibly destructive to all involved.  I would agree that it needs to be outlawed or at least better censored (on the Internet.)
I too am a constitutional originalist and being from NH, where "live free or die" is the state motto, I'm a bit of a libertarian as well.  I'm not a legislate people into morality kind of guy, but I think porn may be an exception.
Sorry again for jumping on your case unfairly. 

 

[rsc2a]

I would probably want something between the UK and the US options although there are reasons I am strongly in favor of the Chinese approach.

Perhaps it would be a reasonable compromise to have all ISPs (loudly) offer free filtering options but allow the individual to make the ultimate choice. Couple this with some method of doing a better job of providing said filtration, something a bit harder to override than just a .xxx suffix (although it's an option to use among many).

With that being said, the porn industry is incredibly destructive, and not just to those who would destroy themselves (a la libertarian argument). It is a major player in the sex slave industry and those people enslaved do not choose to be destroyed. For this reason, I could make an argument (even from a libertarian perspective) that the best solution may be to, in fact, completely ban pornography.

However, similarly to how I feel about the "war on drugs", I believe that any of these efforts should be focused on the providers, not the consumers. Attempting to stop pornography at the consumer level is foolhardy and bound to fail (much like the drug war). However, with stricter laws and harsher punishments for those providing the product may actually do some good...but this also comes with a concern...often times, it is difficult to differentiate between those who are willingly producing this material and those who are being forced to do so against their will.

 

[Izdaari]

Which country handles porn the best? I don't know. Maybe Sweden?

 

[ChuckBob]

On the other hand, SCOTUS has held that obscenity gets no free speech protection.

SCOTUS also says abortion it protected by the Constitution.  While I might personally agree that obscenity gets no free speech protection, SCOTUS is unfortunately an unreliable source for proving it one way or another.

Since Chief Justice Marshall grabbed the power in Marbury v Madison way back in 1803 the SCOTUS has the last word. Of course if some president decided to buck them like say Andrew Jackson did I don't know what they could do about it.

ChuckBob