When did today's church service tradition get started?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Castor Muscular
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Castor Muscular

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Serious question.  When did the traditional service as shown below get started (please allow for minor variations -- your service might not be exactly like this, but I'll bet it's very similar):

1. Gather
2. Sing
3. Sermon
4. Sing
5. Maybe grape juice and cracker
6. Sing
7. Leave

I'm not really interested in how the Lord's Supper became the grape juice and cracker (well, I AM interested, but that's a topic for a separate thread).  I'm more interested in how the rest got started. 
 
Castor Muscular said:
Serious question.  When did the traditional service as shown below get started (please allow for minor variations -- your service might not be exactly like this, but I'll bet it's very similar):

1. Gather
2. Sing
3. Sermon
4. Sing
5. Maybe grape juice and cracker
6. Sing
7. Leave

I'm not really interested in how the Lord's Supper became the grape juice and cracker (well, I AM interested, but that's a topic for a separate thread).  I'm more interested in how the rest got started.
Click to expand...

Various aspects emerged at various times. Some aspects (eg. congregational singing) emerged, died, and re-emerged again at a later date. Pretty much all parts can be seen in one form or another, with varying degrees of frequency, since NT times.

As far as the other...well, you've started a thread for it. ;)
 
rsc2a said:
Castor Muscular said:
Serious question.  When did the traditional service as shown below get started (please allow for minor variations -- your service might not be exactly like this, but I'll bet it's very similar):

1. Gather
2. Sing
3. Sermon
4. Sing
5. Maybe grape juice and cracker
6. Sing
7. Leave

I'm not really interested in how the Lord's Supper became the grape juice and cracker (well, I AM interested, but that's a topic for a separate thread).  I'm more interested in how the rest got started.
Click to expand...

Various aspects emerged at various times. Some aspects (eg. congregational singing) emerged, died, and re-emerged again at a later date. Pretty much all parts can be seen in one form or another, with varying degrees of frequency, since NT times.

As far as the other...well, you've started a thread for it. ;)
Click to expand...

I guess I'm really wondering when it became one pastor, one sermon.  Or even 2-5 pastors, one sermon.
 
Not spamming but Pagan Christianity? by Frank Viola and George Barna gives a lot of history and evolution of many of the American church practices. Might be worth checking your local library or a cheap book store to locate it.
 
[quote author=Castor Muscular]I guess I'm really wondering when it became one pastor, one sermon.  Or even 2-5 pastors, one sermon.[/quote]

About the time the Church got a professional clergy.

The Viola book may actually be able to give you more detail but I think 90% of what he writes to be crap. (SC - That's my book review for the day. ;) )
 
rsc2a said:
[quote author=Castor Muscular]I guess I'm really wondering when it became one pastor, one sermon.  Or even 2-5 pastors, one sermon.
Click to expand...

About the time the Church got a professional clergy.

The Viola book may actually be able to give you more detail but I think 90% of what he writes to be crap. (SC - That's my book review for the day. ;) )
[/quote]

Well, for this particular book, he uses Barna's historical research and is more about documentation, although he does throw in come commentary. I can take or leave Viola concerning general theology but he does his due in his historical research here. IMHO.
 
[quote author=Smellin Coffee]Well, for this particular book, he uses Barna's historical research and is more about documentation, although he does throw in come commentary. I can take or leave Viola concerning generaly theology but he does his due in his historical research here. IMHO.[/quote]

Maybe this book wouldn't be that bad then. :)
 
rsc2a said:
[quote author=Smellin Coffee]Well, for this particular book, he uses Barna's historical research and is more about documentation, although he does throw in come commentary. I can take or leave Viola concerning generaly theology but he does his due in his historical research here. IMHO.
Click to expand...

Maybe this book wouldn't be that bad then. :)
[/quote]

About 30%-40% of each page is full of footnotes and sources. If nothing else, a good reference guide in research.
 
Some traditions are bad. Some are good. In the grand scheme of things..... does it really matter how church service is conducted? I have a personal preference but its just that, personal. For example, I don't particularly like partaking in communion almost every service. Yet, I can't "Biblically" say anything against it.
 
Smellin Coffee said:
Not spamming but Pagan Christianity? by Frank Viola and George Barna gives a lot of history and evolution of many of the American church practices. Might be worth checking your local library or a cheap book store to locate it.
Click to expand...

I picked up the audio book so I could listen at work.  I'm in the middle of chapter 2 (I listened to the preface and intro, too).  It's a wonderful book, so far. 
 
Castor Muscular said:
Serious question.  When did the traditional service as shown below get started (please allow for minor variations -- your service might not be exactly like this, but I'll bet it's very similar):

1. Gather
2. Sing
3. Sermon
4. Sing
5. Maybe grape juice and cracker
6. Sing
7. Leave

I'm not really interested in how the Lord's Supper became the grape juice and cracker (well, I AM interested, but that's a topic for a separate thread).  I'm more interested in how the rest got started.
Click to expand...

Ours doesn't go quite that way. It's more structured, with a shorter sermon but more Scripture readings and short prayers, often with the congregation responding. We also do Communion (which we call Eucharist) every Sunday. It looks a lot like a Catholic Mass. We are Episcopalian.
 
Criminy!  According to the book, Pagan Christianity, in AD 321, Constantine decreed that Sunday was the day of rest, in honor of the sun god. 

It sounds like THIS (and not the verse about meeting on the first day of the week) is how Sunday church got started. 
 
Holy Frijoles, this book is downright scary.  I've only heard 1/6th of the book so far, and I've already learned how much of our modern churches and traditions -- yes, even Protestant churches and traditions -- originated as imitation of pagan beliefs and practices. 

I agree with the author on major point -- DO NOT READ THIS BOOK if you are sold on your current traditions, are easily offended and wish to maintain the illusion that your church is doing the "right thing" as it pertains to how you meet and worship.  It would be like taking away your sense of reality and purpose. 

 
Castor Muscular said:
Holy Frijoles, this book is downright scary.  I've only heard 1/6th of the book so far, and I've already learned how much of our modern churches and traditions -- yes, even Protestant churches and traditions -- originated as imitation of pagan beliefs and practices. 

I agree with the author on major point -- DO NOT READ THIS BOOK if you are sold on your current traditions, are easily offended and wish to maintain the illusion that your church is doing the "right thing" as it pertains to how you meet and worship.  It would be like taking away your sense of reality and purpose.
Click to expand...

I'm listening to this book on my Kindle. It is a very scholarly and well written book. This is not the kind of book an IFBx would want to read.
In this book the contemporary church is considered to have started about 200 years ago. He goes on to show that all church services of the various denominations today all come from the same source and are fundamentally all the same.

This book could cause a Baptist briderer or Landmarker to have a stroke.

If you like real honest history this book is a guide to a vast array of original source material.

Well worth the time.
 
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