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pastorryanhayden

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Read this article by Al Mohler on the Zimmerman case.  He's very good at "playing both sides."

Is he just being soft here?  Or does he make a legitimate point?

http://www.albertmohler.com/2013/07/15/the-central-tragedy-of-this-case-remains-trayvon-martin-belongs-to-us-all/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=the-central-tragedy-of-this-case-remains-trayvon-martin-belongs-to-us-all
 
Wow!  Hayden the only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.  I cannot see the article but from CM's response you are attempting to do something.
 
Mohler is pandering to popularity.  He ignores the genuine central tragedy of this case, which is the spiritual question of where Trayvon Martin probably is now.  Trayvon is a never-dying soul, and I would certainly hate to have departed this earth with his testimony or to be called upon to preach his funeral.  Pastor Hayden, do you do unbelievers' funerals?  That article is Mohler falling for the common temptation of preachers who are faced with preaching an unbeliever's funeral.  Do I preach the truth and warn the other family members, many of which are probably lost and unchurched, and come off as heartless and cruel?  Or do I confer sainthood upon the deceased in order to extend some comfort to the living who grieve?  Most I know who do unbeliever's funerals will preach a basic gospel message and leave the dead man's testimony out of it.  However, tragically, Mohler was NOT compelled to give this eulogy!

The texts and images on Martin's cell phone (which was suppressed by the prosecution, btw), his language, the drugs in his system, and the history of delinquency are all ignored by Mohler who only presents Trayvon as a young black man "eyed suspiciously by people just because you are a young black male."  The only point he has is that the grieving family is to be pitied.  But have you (or he) examined the mixed up dynamic that makes up this "family"?  Has no one noticed how Trayvon's biological parents appear so chummy with one another that to look you would not know they were divorced?  Mohler fully justifies the Trayvon Martins of this world because of their social environment. 
[quote author=Albert Mohler]It is dangerous to be a young black male in America. [/quote]Really?  Just because he was black, it makes it dangerous?  Not the marijuana, or the attitude that prompted him to attack Zimmerman, or the fact that he was dressed to fit the profile of a troublemaker on a dark night in a gated neighborhood where he was a stranger?  Mohler describes Martin in glowing terms, as if he is an angel.
[quote author=Albert Mohler]The photos of Trayvon Martin shown to the world show a normal, happy, 17-year-old boy. A boy who had been living with his mother, but had been sent to be with his father after an incident in school. In other words, a 17-year-old boy who not only was in the right place, but for a very right reason–so that he could be watched over by his father. There isn’t a father of a 17-year-old boy in America (or any man who was once a 17-year-old boy) who doesn’t know exactly what that is about.

The central tragedy remains. A smiling 17-year-old boy who had gone to a convenience store to buy a soft drink and a snack was shot to death,...[/quote]An "incident in school"?!?  Look beyond the show, and see the true testimony of this "normal"(?!) smiling 17-year-old boy, just innocently pounding Zimmerman's head into the concrete.  See the testimony that could NOT be presented at trial, but still speaks of an angry, racist, young thug instead of a smiling, normal 17-year-old little boy. 

Furthermore, Mohler makes the egregious error of adopting and feeding the racial hatred.[quote author=Albert Mohler]It is a political tragedy, a cultural tragedy, and a legal mess. But far more than these, it is the tragedy of a boy now dead, of parents and loved ones grieving, and of a nation further wounded, confused, and tormented by the color line.[/quote]
The one good thing I like which he said in his article was [quote author=Albert Mohler]Show trials are the hallmarks of tyranny, not democracy. [/quote]Unfortunately, he did not pay attention.  His is a "show piece" and stumbles into the same trap of social tyranny.  Writing like this, it would not be a surprise to find Al Sharpton to be a lauded speaker at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary's chapel services.
 
I agree with 99% of Mohler's social commentary, but I had the same misgivings about this piece as you PapaBear.  I think he was being soft and taking the easy route here
I think it's perfectly ok to be concerned with sensitivity to Martin's family and  I don't think Zimmerman needs to be lionized in all this. But in truth, the "it's dangerous to be a black kid in America" bit doesn't sit well for me. 
I've got a black cousin and he never seemed to be in danger, none of my black friends ever seemed to be in danger.  I'd say a better lesson to reach our children is that it's dangerous to self identify with the gangster culture.  It's dangerous to purposely dress like a thug.  It's dangerous to do illegal drugs. Had Martin been walking through the neighborhood sober and respectively dressed he probably would never have been followed by Zimmerman.
Racially insensitive - maybe.  But it's true.  If I white teenager was walking through the neighborhood with pants around his ankles, a hoody and was acting suspiciously, I think the outcome would have been the same.
 
Seems like a similar thought is claimed when a pretty lady wears a little too much make-up or her skirt is a little too short. If she hadn't done that he wouldn't have raped her.

Albert Mohler hit this one out of the park IMO. And the responses in this thread so far actually serve to prove his point. How many of you have been puller over for "driving white"?
 
I disagree on the mini-skirt thing.  While clothing choice never justifies a crime, it cannot be denied that some clothing choices effect the way that you are treated.  That's not evil, it's human nature.
I'm not trying to justify racism in any context or way.  The truth is that you can dress in a way that makes you look suspicious and identifies you as a thug and it has nothing to do with color.  I read a great book a months ago about Jovan Mosely, who was jailed for six years in Chicago for a crime he didn't commit, in his case, he was hanging out with the people who did commit the crime - so it was guilt by association.  Does that make it right? No.  Should the police have done a better job - yes.  Would Mosely have gone to jail if he was dressed differently or hanging out with different people - almost certainly not.
Spin it however you want.  Martin would still be here had he chosen different associations and a white kid could have been in Martin's shoes and the same thing would have happened.
BTW when was the last time you heard of anyone being pulled over for "driving black"?  I was pulled over almost weekly in high school for no other reason than I was a teenager driving through a nice neighborhood after dark. 
 
Most round these parts know I am pretty much a Mohler fanboy, and though the essence of his summarizing paragraph <below> contained a lot worthy of considering...

The central tragedy remains. A smiling 17-year-old boy who had gone to a convenience store to buy a soft drink and a snack was shot to death, and we will never know exactly how or why. We just know that it is an unspeakable tragedy. It is a moral tragedy that even the best system of justice cannot remedy, much less restore. It is a political tragedy, a cultural tragedy, and a legal mess. But far more than these, it is the tragedy of a boy now dead, of parents and loved ones grieving, and of a nation further wounded, confused, and tormented by the color line.


...he inaccurately paints a picture of Trayvon Martin as being an innocent boy.  It is very likely that Trayvon's attitude and (im)maturity at least partly precipitated the escalation of tragic events that led to his death.  Zimmerman should have not have been so over-the-top macho and zealous to be a rent-a-cop, but, letting the race-mongers seize this as a touchstone for black rights, making it all about race, is nothing short of opportunism on the part of the black community.  I heard Crump (Martin family attorney in the criminal case) say during jury deliberations that this case would elevate Martin to martydom status on the levels of Medgar Evars and Emmett Till (a pastor said this was the black community of today's "Medgar Evers moment").  Such rhetoric, a little like what Mohler is doing, cheapens the true struggles of people who made great strides for racial equality.  The gangsta culture of today should not in any way be elevated to an equivalent status of such icons.

Maybe Mohler is just being over-reactive to the race issue because of the Convention's historical part in defending slave-holding. ;)
 
Alayman,
100% agree.

I wish Mohler had written a piece like this:
http://www.davidmcelroy.org/?p=18715
 
subllibrm said:
Albert Mohler hit this one out of the park IMO.
IMO, only if you are playing in one of the old Negro League ball parks.  Mohler ignored the facts in evidence, and took "advantage of this case and controversy" to play his own race game.  He wants a say in things, and desires approval, so he is going to speak for what he perceives will gain him the most popularity.

subllibrm said:
How many of you have been puller over for "driving white"?
Are you under the mistaken impression that George Zimmerman only followed Trayvon Martin because he was black?  Or the mistaken impression that Zimm is white?  btw, we are 50 years beyond the 1960's and this is not Boss Daley's Chicago.  In the current Civil Rights atmosphere, especially since the Rodney King affair, a policeman would be risking a lot more than just a job to pull someone over for only "driving black."  What?  Are you obsessed with watching Morgan Freeman reruns?  Miss Daisey was victimized too!

Have you ever been grounded from flying a plane for "flying Arab"?  No, but since 9/11 people with the above thinking have searched a lot of  Grandmothers, children and handicapped ... anybody and everybody but Arab Muslims for fear of being accused of "profiling" when every one of the 9/11 skyjackers and the Shoe Bomber and the Lockerbie Bomber fit THAT profile.  It may be racist, or even legalistic IFBx in your opinion, but these days I feel much safer if the pilots flying the planes I'm on are African-American or Native-American or Hispanic or anything else but carrying a prayer rug and wearing a turban.

Yeah, there is a good reason for Paul to have told the Thessalonians to avoid the appearance of evil.  And in this particular case, if Mr. Mohler had followed even just the headlines of this trial, he would have known that there was a lot more to Trayvon Martin than just appearing like a normal, smiling, 17-year-old boy visiting his father for some much needed parental guidance following a little "incident" in school.  A history of social injustice, even if proved to be current, does not excuse or sanctify the actions of a hoodlum.  A bigoted cop harassing those of a certain ethnic background is very different from shooting someone off your chest who is trying to bust your head wide open on a concrete sidewalk. In such a situation, you don't wait to determine if your assailant's race or family history is on the approved list for self-defense. 

Mohler's article reeks of pandering to what is politically correct, not for the noble purpose of calming things down or extending comfort to Trayvon's family, but for what appears to be the selfish reason of putting himself forward into the public eye as a wise commentator.  Many of his misguided statements disregard the injury he is doing to George Zimmerman and his family, or the racial tensions he is aggravating.
 
qwerty said:
pastorryanhayden said:
Alayman,
100% agree.

I wish Mohler had written a piece like this:
http://www.davidmcelroy.org/?p=18715

That is an excellent article.

It was pretty good.  I just have to take issue with this:  "As I wrote Friday, I don’t think Zimmerman is a murderer, but I also don’t think he’s a hero."  I don't know anyone who is making Zimmerman out to be a hero.  The people I know who are celebrating are celebrating because the law triumphed over politics.

 
pastorryanhayden said:
I wish Mohler had written a piece like this:
http://www.davidmcelroy.org/?p=18715
That is one powerfully written article!  I especially love the way he builds up to his conclusion in the last 3 major paragraphs.  He does not ignore the errors of either Zimmerman or Martin, but neither does he justify either one.  This final statement is well worth the quote:
[quote author=David McElroy]And as long as we do that, we’re going to keep pretending that people such as Zimmerman and Martin are heroes or martyrs — and nothing’s going to change.[/quote]
 
Castor Muscular said:
I just have to take issue with this:  "As I wrote Friday, I don’t think Zimmerman is a murderer, but I also don’t think he’s a hero."  I don't know anyone who is making Zimmerman out to be a hero.  The people I know who are celebrating are celebrating because the law triumphed over politics.
I don't know.  I have seen some that appear to be spiking the ball and raising Zimm on their shoulders in a victory dance.  Hiindsight is 20-20, and if I read his expressions right, even Zimm is thinking of some things he could have done differently which would not have led to the necessity of self-defense. 

In contrast, do you not see that despite all that is known about Trayvon Martin, folks on that side are raising him to martyr status as if he is a saint?  I believe what McElroy is pointing out is that there are always 2 sides to that, and at least some on the Zimm side are just as guilty of justifying Zimmerman for EVERYTHING because of his not guilty verdict.  Just verdict and triumph of the rule of law?  Yes.  But as stated earlier in the article, a declaration of absolute innocence?  Not hardly, that is a different matter.
 
pastorryanhayden said:
Is he just being soft here?  Or does he make a legitimate point?

Mohler is always insightful, and almost always right, and this article is no exception.

Having seen that other side of Trayvon Martin than has been portrayed in the lamestream media, however, I take issue with his portrayal of the teen as an innocent child.
 
So I said what I said and the responses went right where we would expect. If Martin hadn't been dressed like he was this wouldn't have happened. I saw the photos of the dead body. He didn't look "thug" to me.

If I had said that none of this would have happened if Zimmerman had stayed in his car what would the argument be?

Fact is they both had a right to be where they were and what appear to be misunderstandings of the motives of the other by both parties led to the death of a young man that was unnecessary. That alone makes it tragic. Regardless of his attire, his blood chemistry or his attitude it is a tragedy that he is dead. If you don't understand that then there is an additional tragedy afoot.

BTW Blair Underwood was pulled over for driving black in his own upscale neighborhood driving his own upscale car. Putting your fingers in your ears going na na na na  na I can't hear you doesn't change the facts.

http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20102555,00.html

Nope, never happens.  ::)
 
No one is saying its not tragic.
No one is saying Zimmerman was a hero. 
Without being an eyewitness or inside Zimmerman's head, how can you say he wasn't acting suspicious? 
Yes.  You were able to find one news story of a man pulled over for "driving black".  That proves we are still a racist country.  So racist we elected a black president with a Muslim sounding name in two consecutive landslide elections.
There is enough in Zimmerman's past to know this whole thing  probably wasn't racially motivated.  Yet it was turned into a media/race circus and a trial by public opinion.
Some of us are glad the justice system still operates under the presumption of innocence and juries still have to convict criminals of specific crimes.
 
pastorryanhayden said:
No one is saying its not tragic.
No one is saying Zimmerman was a hero. 
Without being an eyewitness or inside Zimmerman's head, how can you say he wasn't acting suspicious? 
Yes.  You were able to find one news story of a man pulled over for "driving black".  That proves we are still a racist country.  So racist we elected a black president with a Muslim sounding name in two consecutive landslide elections.
There is enough in Zimmerman's past to know this whole thing  probably wasn't racially motivated.  Yet it was turned into a media/race circus and a trial by public opinion.
Some of us are glad the justice system still operates under the presumption of innocence and juries still have to convict criminals of specific crimes.

Pastor, your normally calm and reasoned demeanor is failing you here. The link shows not one but many instances which indicates you didn't read it.

My point is that much of the rationalizing of why Zimmerman may have been suspicious is racially tinged. Wearing a hoodie is "thug"? Really? We better get those girls in our youth group to stop wearing them ASAP! Do you ever wear a white tank t-shirt? Does that make you a wife beater? Go back and read the thread and look for the code words. They are there. I can see them and I not black.

And I didn't say we are a racist country. I said that there is still a different set of rules for being a young black man than there is for being white. That was brother Mohler's point. Do you need to have a talk with your boys about how to react when they are pulled over for looking out of place in the neighborhood? You don't. I don't Mohler doesn't. Why do black fathers feel the need to educate their kids that way? Because there is still prejudice.
 
You are right.  That may be a valid point,  I just think the Zimmerman case was the wrong jumping off point for it.
This entire case was a circus.  The race crowd were looking for racism so hard their eyes were popping out of their heads.  In a case where the defendant was 1) not white and 2) had a history which made him very unlikely to be a racist.
Why?
Why do they WANT to see racism here?
One of my personal mottos is "it's good to be wrong about wrong in other people."  That's not the attitude the African American community has shown towards George Zimmerman and its one they rarely ever show when the accusation is race.
Mohler's article seemed to pander to that.
BTW, I too am a bit of a "Mohler Fanboy."  I listen to both of his podcasts and usually agree with all of his social commentary.
I'm against racism.  I've written against racism among IFBs before (and not calmly.). I don't think the a-a community should get a free pass for reverse-racism.  Mohler seemed to give them one.
 
subllibrm said:
pastorryanhayden said:
No one is saying its not tragic.
No one is saying Zimmerman was a hero. 
Without being an eyewitness or inside Zimmerman's head, how can you say he wasn't acting suspicious? 
Yes.  You were able to find one news story of a man pulled over for "driving black".  That proves we are still a racist country.  So racist we elected a black president with a Muslim sounding name in two consecutive landslide elections.
There is enough in Zimmerman's past to know this whole thing  probably wasn't racially motivated.  Yet it was turned into a media/race circus and a trial by public opinion.
Some of us are glad the justice system still operates under the presumption of innocence and juries still have to convict criminals of specific crimes.

My point is that much of the rationalizing of why Zimmerman may have been suspicious is racially tinged.

Um...  Nevermind
 
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