What Sermon text would you use to preach against welfare?

[christundivided]

I was thinking the other day of

Joh 6:26  Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled.

In the same manner..... Most of those on long term welfare programs don't believe government is right and morally ethical in its attempts to help them. They simple enjoy getting their "belly full". When you are only enjoying the gift, you're not often seeking the truth. The truth you're just enjoying the gift at other peoples expense.

 

[rsc2a]

Which sermon text would you use to preach against welfare?

I wouldn't.

 

[Izdaari]

I wouldn't.

It may be a bad policy, but it's in the realm of politics, not religion. I don't go to church to hear someone preach politics.

 

[Castor Muscular]

I would use, "Those unwilling to work shall not eat."  It applies to the way Obama has restructured welfare, by taking away the work requirement. 

 

[christundivided]

Which sermon text would you use to preach against welfare?

I wouldn't.

Okay. Why wouldn't you?

Surely you believe in all the Gospel....

2Th 3:10  For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.
2Th 3:11  For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies.
2Th 3:12  Now them that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread.

 

[christundivided]

taking care of the poor is the responsibility of the church

the church has failed

No its not the responsibility of the church to take care of all the poor. Its is the responsibility of the church to take care of its own poor. BIG difference. Either way. I'm not talking about the church. I am talking about governmental welfare. I didn't say anything about a Church welfare program.

 

[samspade]

What would be your motivation for preaching against welfare?

 

[christundivided]

What would be your motivation for preaching against welfare?

The truth is important isn't it?

What would be any person's motive for preaching/promoting welfare?

 

[rsc2a]

Which sermon text would you use to preach against welfare?

I wouldn't.

Okay. Why wouldn't you?

Surely you believe in all the Gospel....

2Th 3:10  For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.
2Th 3:11  For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies.
2Th 3:12  Now them that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread.

I think you and I have completely different understandings on what the Gospel is or is not.



I wouldn't preach against welfare because welfare, like a variety of other things, is amoral. There is nothing inherently wrong with accepting welfare and may, in some cases, be a just and necessary thing. Furthermore, I'm not a fan of preaching "against sin" (which welfare is not).

I'm a fan of preaching Christ and Him crucified. If someone makes it a point to preach on certain virtues and/or vices, they will inevitable begin to start preaching "right" behavior instead of wearing the righteousness of Christ. Of course you will address behavior, but behavior modification should not be the primary objective of any sermon, at least any Christian sermon. It is be grace we are saved, not good living.

 

[Reformed Guy]

Which sermon text would you use to preach against welfare?

I wouldn't.

Okay. Why wouldn't you?

Surely you believe in all the Gospel....

2Th 3:10  For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.
2Th 3:11  For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies.
2Th 3:12  Now them that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread.

I think you and I have completely different understandings on what the Gospel is or is not.



I wouldn't preach against welfare because welfare, like a variety of other things, is amoral. There is nothing inherently wrong with accepting welfare and may, in some cases, be a just and necessary thing. Furthermore, I'm not a fan of preaching "against sin" (which welfare is not).

I'm a fan of preaching Christ and Him crucified. If someone makes it a point to preach on certain virtues and/or vices, they will inevitable begin to start preaching "right" behavior instead of wearing the righteousness of Christ. Of course you will address behavior, but behavior modification should not be the primary objective of any sermon, at least any Christian sermon. It is be grace we are saved, not good living.

It is be grace we are saved, not good living. 

It is true- It is by grace we are saved, not good living.  But we must not stop there-  for we are saved for good works, i.e. "good living."

 

[christundivided]

Which sermon text would you use to preach against welfare?

I wouldn't.

Okay. Why wouldn't you?

Surely you believe in all the Gospel....

2Th 3:10  For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.
2Th 3:11  For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies.
2Th 3:12  Now them that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread.

I think you and I have completely different understandings on what the Gospel is or is not.



I wouldn't preach against welfare because welfare, like a variety of other things, is amoral. There is nothing inherently wrong with accepting welfare and may, in some cases, be a just and necessary thing. Furthermore, I'm not a fan of preaching "against sin" (which welfare is not).

I'm a fan of preaching Christ and Him crucified. If someone makes it a point to preach on certain virtues and/or vices, they will inevitable begin to start preaching "right" behavior instead of wearing the righteousness of Christ. Of course you will address behavior, but behavior modification should not be the primary objective of any sermon, at least any Christian sermon. It is be grace we are saved, not good living.

The Gospel is the entire council of God. There is no biblical separation between "Gospel" and "doctrine". When our Lord came to preach the "Good News". He also preached doctrine. It was His DOCTRINE that caused multitudes of people that once accepted HIM to abandon Him entirely.

Do you remember the words recorded our Lord spoke when He sent forth the disciples to the preach the Gospel?

Mat 28:20  Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you?

What does this mean to you?

You have a plausible philosophy but its not rooted any real notion of what Exactly the Gospel is.....

I do agree that welfare can be good but it has become overwhelmingly BAD for our nation. People have become accustom to following whoever it is that "fills their belly". They could care less of what it cost or whether its ethically acceptable.

I personally have received welfare when I was young. My father was a drunk and mother worked 2 to 3 jobs until it destroyed her heart. I am grateful for what we received. HOWEVER.... When I became old enough to work myself. I DID. From that day till this I have NEVER received one more penny of welfare support. I don't want it as long as I DON'T NEED IT. I don't EXPECT it if I'm  do NEED IT just because I'm a citizen.

I BY THE GRACE of GODI  can help myself. I have worked and become successful in life. I make more now than anyone has ever made in my family. I have two wonderful children and a wife that intend to support rest of my natural life. I try NOT to follow anything just for my own benefit. The moral and ethical justification for long term welfare programs for those that can help themselves are nonexistent.

 

[Timothy]

What would be your motivation for preaching against welfare?

The truth is important isn't it?

What would be any person's motive for preaching/promoting welfare?

1 Timothy 5:8
"Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever."

For some using welfare allows them to provide for their household. They can provide health services and good food for the babies.

Isaiah 32:18
"My people will live in peaceful dwelling places, in secure homes, in undisturbed places of rest."

Perhaps not the best passage of scripture, but my pastor has been talking with me one-on-one about the peace God wants for us. If God uses welfare to extend peace I see no issue. He can use welfare to extend peace in health. We can use welfare to provide our daily bread.

 

[christundivided]

What would be your motivation for preaching against welfare?

The truth is important isn't it?

What would be any person's motive for preaching/promoting welfare?

1 Timothy 5:8
"Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever."

For some using welfare allows them to provide for their household. They can provide health services and good food for the babies.

Isaiah 32:18
"My people will live in peaceful dwelling places, in secure homes, in undisturbed places of rest."

Perhaps not the best passage of scripture, but my pastor has been talking with me one-on-one about the peace God wants for us. If God uses welfare to extend peace I see no issue. He can use welfare to extend peace in health. We can use welfare to provide our daily bread.

How does welfare help someone provide for his own? You're not providing anything. The government is....

Get it?

 

[ALAYMAN]

[quote author=rsc2a]I think you and I have completely different understandings on what the Gospel is or is not.[/quote]

Undoubtedly, as you believe <falsely> that Rome believes properly in Justification by grace alone through faith alone.

Furthermore, I'm not a fan of preaching "against sin" (which welfare is not).

Paul disagrees with you, as does Peter, the prophets, and a overwhelming preponderance of Biblical evidence.

Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

 

[Timothy]

What would be your motivation for preaching against welfare?

The truth is important isn't it?

What would be any person's motive for preaching/promoting welfare?

1 Timothy 5:8
"Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever."

For some using welfare allows them to provide for their household. They can provide health services and good food for the babies.

Isaiah 32:18
"My people will live in peaceful dwelling places, in secure homes, in undisturbed places of rest."

Perhaps not the best passage of scripture, but my pastor has been talking with me one-on-one about the peace God wants for us. If God uses welfare to extend peace I see no issue. He can use welfare to extend peace in health. We can use welfare to provide our daily bread.

How does welfare help someone provide for his own? You're not providing anything. The government is....

Get it?

I work, pay taxes, follow the laws of the land, and Love the Lord with my life. For some, they do this and make $100,000 a year and they can afford health insurance and food for the children without a struggle. Others, they make $35,000 a year and after rent, gas to get to/from work, utility bills ... well, they end up short and need help. God looks at the sparrow and provides a worm. A worm that the sparrow never even worked for. God just left it there for him. In a similar way God provides for me with some cash to purchase things and a government that cares for those who are in need. The programs seek to give quality food to children, heath care, and for some even homes.

The question I would ask is who gets the praise for these blessings? The government or the Lord of the government? Think about it, Romans 13:1 says "Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God."

So, I would submit welfare is a gift from God.

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=Reformed Guy]It is be grace we are saved, not good living. 

It is true- It is by grace we are saved, not good living.  But we must not stop there-  for we are saved for good works, i.e. "good living."[/quote]

I completely agree. And those good works are a result of our love for God (via grace); therefore, if you teach your people to love God and pursue Him with all their hearts, mind, soul, and strength, then the good works* will be naturally flow from them. If you preach "clean living" as a means of somehow avoiding God's wrath or as a means of somehow buying off God, then you're badly off. Teach your people that loving God looks like <this>, but the motivation is love for God...which is why I wouldn't preach against behavior because that type of preaching stimulates that works-righteousness button that everyone has built into them more than anything else.

*love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=christundivided]The Gospel is the entire council of God. There is no biblical separation between "Gospel" and "doctrine". When our Lord came to preach the "Good News". He also preached doctrine. It was His DOCTRINE that caused multitudes of people that once accepted HIM to abandon Him entirely.

Do you remember the words recorded our Lord spoke when He sent forth the disciples to the preach the Gospel?

Mat 28:20  Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you?

What does this mean to you?[/quote]

It means we need to teach people to take care of poor people.  It also means that, as Christians, we should be doing our part to right the wrongs in the world...and I consider hungry, naked people who cannot work to be very wrong.

[quote author=christundivided]You have a plausible philosophy but its not rooted any real notion of what Exactly the Gospel is.....[/quote]

Nope. I just recognize that what we are saved TO is vastly more important than what we are saved FROM.

[quote author=christundivided]I do agree that welfare can be good but it has become overwhelmingly BAD for our nation. People have become accustom to following whoever it is that "fills their belly". They could care less of what it cost or whether its ethically acceptable. [/quote]

Logical fallacy.

[quote author=christundivided]I personally have received welfare when I was young. My father was a drunk and mother worked 2 to 3 jobs until it destroyed her heart. I am grateful for what we received. HOWEVER.... When I became old enough to work myself. I DID. From that day till this I have NEVER received one more penny of welfare support. I don't want it as long as I DON'T NEED IT. I don't EXPECT it if I'm  do NEED IT just because I'm a citizen. [/quote]

You should expect it if you need it. It's your right as a citizen.

[quote author=christundivided]I BY THE GRACE of GODI  can help myself. I have worked and become successful in life. I make more now than anyone has ever made in my family. I have two wonderful children and a wife that intend to support rest of my natural life. I try NOT to follow anything just for my own benefit. The moral and ethical justification for long term welfare programs for those that can help themselves are nonexistent.[/quote]

Then let's hope you don't get hit by a train the same time your wife gets very ill. Because...in that case...she will most likely be very thankful that our system will help her out.

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=rsc2a]I think you and I have completely different understandings on what the Gospel is or is not.

Undoubtedly, as you believe <falsely> that Rome believes properly in Justification by grace alone through faith alone.[/quote]

Did you catch that rabbit?

[quote author=ALAYMAN]

Furthermore, I'm not a fan of preaching "against sin" (which welfare is not).

Paul disagrees with you, as does Peter, the prophets, and a overwhelming preponderance of Biblical evidence.

Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=Timothy]I work, pay taxes, follow the laws of the land, and Love the Lord with my life. For some, they do this and make $100,000 a year and they can afford health insurance and food for the children without a struggle. Others, they make $35,000 a year and after rent, gas to get to/from work, utility bills ... well, they end up short and need help. God looks at the sparrow and provides a worm. A worm that the sparrow never even worked for. God just left it there for him. In a similar way God provides for me with some cash to purchase things and a government that cares for those who are in need. The programs seek to give quality food to children, heath care, and for some even homes.

The question I would ask is who gets the praise for these blessings? The government or the Lord of the government? Think about it, Romans 13:1 says "Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God."

So, I would submit welfare is a gift from God.[/quote]

I want to say I completely agree with this post.

As a political libertarian, I don't like the system for a variety of reasons, but I still recognize the need for the services that are being provided by the government.

 

[christundivided]

What would be your motivation for preaching against welfare?

The truth is important isn't it?

What would be any person's motive for preaching/promoting welfare?

1 Timothy 5:8
"Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever."

For some using welfare allows them to provide for their household. They can provide health services and good food for the babies.

Isaiah 32:18
"My people will live in peaceful dwelling places, in secure homes, in undisturbed places of rest."

Perhaps not the best passage of scripture, but my pastor has been talking with me one-on-one about the peace God wants for us. If God uses welfare to extend peace I see no issue. He can use welfare to extend peace in health. We can use welfare to provide our daily bread.

How does welfare help someone provide for his own? You're not providing anything. The government is....

Get it?

I work, pay taxes, follow the laws of the land, and Love the Lord with my life. For some, they do this and make $100,000 a year and they can afford health insurance and food for the children without a struggle. Others, they make $35,000 a year and after rent, gas to get to/from work, utility bills ... well, they end up short and need help. God looks at the sparrow and provides a worm. A worm that the sparrow never even worked for. God just left it there for him. In a similar way God provides for me with some cash to purchase things and a government that cares for those who are in need. The programs seek to give quality food to children, heath care, and for some even homes.

The question I would ask is who gets the praise for these blessings? The government or the Lord of the government? Think about it, Romans 13:1 says "Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God."

So, I would submit welfare is a gift from God.

1. I can't help if someone makes $35,000 or $100,000 a year. I will say I've made $35000 a year or less and lived just fine. You live within your means. Are you having a problem living within you means? Why do you expect to earn more than someone that is doing more?

2. What do you mean a worm the bird doesn't work for? Have you ever seen a bird dig up a worm? Does the bird just sit its rearend and expect a worm to be dropped in its mouth? Does the bird fly around seeking its next meal? Wouldn't you call this WORK? Are you that naive?

How about the bugs the birds eat so you don't have to swat them the rest of your life? Do you call that WORK? Does a bird WORK to catch a bug?

3. Are you seriously applying Romans 13:1 to this? What about before welfare? When the government didn't provide such for over one hundred years? The fact is... we choose our leaders. We get what we choose.