Was what Schaap did really that bad?

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I recently talked with an old friend who had moved to Hammond about a dozen years ago to attend HAC. I haven't seen him since he and his family left our church. We talked on the phone for nearly a hour, reminicing and bring each other up to speed about our respective families.

And then he said, "I suppose you heard about Brother Schaap?"  I told him I had.

Friend: "Yeah, he really screwed up." Not wanting to capitalize on the misfortune but also detecting a bit of cynicism in his voice, I said Schaap committed a crime by taking advantage of a young vunerable girl.

Friend: "It's not as bad as alot of people make it out to be."

I have to say I was shocked at the time, but now after thinking about the conversation (and his feelings) I'm wondering why I was shocked. Is he merely expressing the overall sentiment of present-day FBCH and HAC?

Any takers?
 
Every person has their opinion.  To take the opinion of one and apply it to all is not always accurate.  I have a friend who is also at FBCH.  He wants Schaap to spend as long as possible in prison, and he wants the majority of staff members that were there with Schaap to be fired.  There is no "general consensus".
 
RAIDER said:
Every person has their opinion.  To take the opinion of one and apply it to all is not always accurate.  I have a friend who is also at FBCH.  He wants Schaap to spend as long as possible in prison, and he wants the majority of staff members that were there with Schaap to be fired.  There is no "general consensus".
Click to expand...

While there might not be a general consensus it does seem the ones who think it really wasn't that bad are in the majority. After all, John Wilkerson was able to use the word "admire" when speaking of Schaap and wasn't booed off the platform for doing so.

And that is a shame.
 
RAIDER said:
Every person has their opinion.  To take the opinion of one and apply it to all is not always accurate.  I have a friend who is also at FBCH.  He wants Schaap to spend as long as possible in prison, and he wants the majority of staff members that were there with Schaap to be fired.  There is no "general consensus".
Click to expand...

Good point and I was not attempting to broad-brush the situation. Obviously opinions differ, at FBCH/HAC and everywhere else. I guess it was more the inflection of my friend's voice that I suspected a bit cyncism about Schaap.
 
Your friend said: "It's not as bad as a lot of people make it out to be."

What is bad & stinkin sickening, is that Christians like your fiend & a bunch of FBCH fundamentalist are so deep in their little "BOX" that they can no longer comprehend that their little hero's can commit crimes that carry severe scriptural & civil penalties. >:(
 
fishinnut said:
Your friend said: "It's not as bad as a lot of people make it out to be."

What is bad & stinkin sickening, is that Christians like your fiend & a bunch of FBCH fundamentalist are so deep in their little "BOX" that they can no longer comprehend that their little hero's can commit crimes that carry severe scriptural & civil penalties. >:(
Click to expand...

Amen. I agree that what Schaap did was egregious and down-right perverted. That being said, what troubles me is the denial of some deep within the FBCH/HAC cavern. Makes me wonder there are some that would seriously allow Schaap back into church leadership.
 
Yes.  It was really that bad.  In fact, it was worse than the punishment he received.
 
Binaca Chugger said:
Yes.  It was really that bad.  In fact, it was worse than the punishment he received.
Click to expand...

Good point. Whether Schaap's prison sentence was commensurate with his crime is hard to say and certainly out of our hands. That being said, Schaap, IMO is finished in the pastoral ministry. I hope he's attending church services in prison, but I cannot imagine any church dumb (or desperate) enough to hire him as pastor upon his release.
 
how can you  admire someone you trusted to take advantage of a young girl....something isn't right here....that makes me sick to my stomach
 
Yah, it is bad. Back in the 70s we became aware of the following story from Michigan.

This is a quote from D Magazine.
http://www.dmagazine.com/publications/d-magazine/1988/september/gods-man-savior-or-seducer

"A background search on the Smiths was begun and in midsummer produced more than expected. Billie Jo Cole uncovered school principal Tim Smith’s 1976 dismissal from Saginaw, Michigan’s Sheridan Road Baptist Church and school following the discovery that Smith had conducted an extended relationship with a seventeen-year-old student, whom he took to Florida for several months, leaving his wife and children behind and devastating the church. At the same time, Ferguson traced a tip back to Lake City, Georgia, where a Baptist pastor confirmed having counseled a young woman he described as "suicidal." She had been involved several years ago with a third Smith brother now living in Richardson, former Forest Park, Georgia, pastor Tom Smith. The Georgia pastor was told by the woman that in 1979, Terry Smith came to Atlanta to speak at the high school of his brother Tom’s church. Tom asked her to have sex with Terry as a favor, and the woman complied. Soon after, said the Lake City pastor, Tom Smith resigned from his church when he was discovered to be involved with another woman, a married church member. He left to join his brothers in Texas."

This was IMHO just as bad. It is the template in the Hyles family for JS similar indiscretion. JS of course knew about this, many in the church did.

I believe JS thought that since things worked out so well for Tim they would work out just fine for him too. What he didn't count on was that there was no federal trafficing law back in the 70s, like the one on the books now.

We thought things would work out so well for Tim and Becky when they went to Michigan to work in the school, we were wrong, they picked up one trait from the Hyles family and carried it with them to Michigan.

This is now such a common story in the IFB world. And it has been going on for decades. People are always trying to cover it up for the good of the ministry. How foolish.

It's bad very bad, to date there has been no public apology and repentance after decades of the same indiscretions occurring over and over.
 
bgwilkinson said:
Yah, it is bad. Back in the 70s we became aware of the following story from Michigan.

This is a quote from D Magazine.
http://www.dmagazine.com/publications/d-magazine/1988/september/gods-man-savior-or-seducer

"A background search on the Smiths was begun and in midsummer produced more than expected. Billie Jo Cole uncovered school principal Tim Smith’s 1976 dismissal from Saginaw, Michigan’s Sheridan Road Baptist Church and school following the discovery that Smith had conducted an extended relationship with a seventeen-year-old student, whom he took to Florida for several months, leaving his wife and children behind and devastating the church. At the same time, Ferguson traced a tip back to Lake City, Georgia, where a Baptist pastor confirmed having counseled a young woman he described as "suicidal." She had been involved several years ago with a third Smith brother now living in Richardson, former Forest Park, Georgia, pastor Tom Smith. The Georgia pastor was told by the woman that in 1979, Terry Smith came to Atlanta to speak at the high school of his brother Tom’s church. Tom asked her to have sex with Terry as a favor, and the woman complied. Soon after, said the Lake City pastor, Tom Smith resigned from his church when he was discovered to be involved with another woman, a married church member. He left to join his brothers in Texas."

This was IMHO just as bad. It is the template in the Hyles family for JS similar indiscretion. JS of course knew about this, many in the church did.

I believe JS thought that since things worked out so well for Tim they would work out just fine for him too. What he didn't count on was that there was no federal trafficing law back in the 70s, like the one on the books now.

We thought things would work out so well for Tim and Becky when they went to Michigan to work in the school, we were wrong, they picked up one trait from the Hyles family and carried it with them to Michigan.

This is now such a common story in the IFB world. And it has been going on for decades. People are always trying to cover it up for the good of the ministry. How foolish.

It's bad very bad, to date there has been no public apology and repentance after decades of the same indiscretions occurring over and over.
Click to expand...
I vaguely remember hearing about this years ago. I've wondered if it is the "touch-not-God's anointed" lack of accountability that makes some within the IFB leadership think there are two sets of rules for believers. I've heard Brother Hyles talk about being a benevolont dictator. I've also had my fill back in the day hearing my own former pastor justify his spiritual abuse by saying the Bible teaches pastors are to be the ultimate authority.
I have a big problem with churches (my former church included) granting blanket authority to a man without having some sort of legitimate accountability mechanism in place to check and balance his authority.
 
no value said:
I recently talked with an old friend who had moved to Hammond about a dozen years ago to attend HAC. I haven't seen him since he and his family left our church. We talked on the phone for nearly a hour, reminicing and bring each other up to speed about our respective families.

And then he said, "I suppose you heard about Brother Schaap?"  I told him I had.

Friend: "Yeah, he really screwed up." Not wanting to capitalize on the misfortune but also detecting a bit of cynicism in his voice, I said Schaap committed a crime by taking advantage of a young vunerable girl.

Friend: "It's not as bad as alot of people make it out to be."

I have to say I was shocked at the time, but now after thinking about the conversation (and his feelings) I'm wondering why I was shocked. Is he merely expressing the overall sentiment of present-day FBCH and HAC?

Any takers?
Click to expand...

I guess the biggest thing I will never understand is how someone can call it "they were in a relationship". 

JS was married for at least 30 years he knew how to get inside that girls head and he knew exactly what to say, he was in his 50's and was married for 30 years. 

He took advantage of that young lady, that is no relationship. 

I just don't get it?
 
"Is what Jack Schaap did really that bad?"

"Thou shalt not commit adultery." Exodus 20:1

The answer is "Yes, Yes, a thousand times Yes."
 
Tennessean said:
"Is what Jack Schaap did really that bad?"

"Thou shalt not commit adultery." Exodus 20:1

The answer is "Yes, Yes, a thousand times Yes."
Click to expand...

NOOOOO!!!  it was much more than adultery.
 
I knew there was "goings on" with the Smith brothers, but honestly didn't know what it was.  It had been going on since the 70's.  To say the least, WOW!!!

After Bro. Hyles' death, I really thought that JS could come in and bring some healing to a hurting church.  In the beginning he was doing that and then the rug was being pulled out from under us - or should I say the $$$$$$$$.  Remodeling this, and buying that and going there and expensive vacations and all I could see was $$$$$$$$.  I told my family as I started noticing flaws in the early beginning I would give him 10 years and he would be gone - either back to Michigan or somewhere else.  Well, I was pretty close.  The deacons of FBC had their heads in the ground and no one dared to say anything.  JS was a bully and no one was going to tell him no.  He had endless funds of money, credit, phones - you name it he had it.  When he made a comment in a sermon that the million or so money that JH had left the church was gone in the first few months he was here, I looked over at my family and nearly had a heart attack.  When he mentioned the schools that were once debt free were in hock up to our necks, I knew we were in real trouble.  We had nothing to fall back on.  He wanted his grand building and nothing and no one was going to stop him from getting it. 

So you ask was JS really bad - think of it - was he bad in ways of  greed, women, unfaithfulness???  There are several ways JS was bad.  He has ruined many lives, including his own. 
 
Still There said:
I knew there was "goings on" with the Smith brothers, but honestly didn't know what it was.  It had been going on since the 70's.  To say the least, WOW!!!

After Bro. Hyles' death, I really thought that JS could come in and bring some healing to a hurting church.  In the beginning he was doing that and then the rug was being pulled out from under us - or should I say the $$$$$$$$.  Remodeling this, and buying that and going there and expensive vacations and all I could see was $$$$$$$$.  I told my family as I started noticing flaws in the early beginning I would give him 10 years and he would be gone - either back to Michigan or somewhere else.  Well, I was pretty close.  The deacons of FBC had their heads in the ground and no one dared to say anything.  JS was a bully and no one was going to tell him no.  He had endless funds of money, credit, phones - you name it he had it.  When he made a comment in a sermon that the million or so money that JH had left the church was gone in the first few months he was here, I looked over at my family and nearly had a heart attack.  When he mentioned the schools that were once debt free were in hock up to our necks, I knew we were in real trouble.  We had nothing to fall back on.  He wanted his grand building and nothing and no one was going to stop him from getting it. 

So you ask was JS really bad - think of it - was he bad in ways of  greed, women, unfaithfulness???  There are several ways JS was bad.  He has ruined many lives, including his own.
Click to expand...
“The mills of God grind slowly, yet they grind exceeding small;
Though with patience He stands waiting, with exactness He grinds all.”

 
"Was what Schaap did really that bad?"

He took advantage of a young lady and seduced her as a counselor and pastor with the power of his position, while filling her mind with his poisonous theology and using that to convince her that sex with him was service to God. Yes, what he did was that bad and more.
 
no value said:
I recently talked with an old friend who had moved to Hammond about a dozen years ago to attend HAC. I haven't seen him since he and his family left our church. We talked on the phone for nearly a hour, reminicing and bring each other up to speed about our respective families.

And then he said, "I suppose you heard about Brother Schaap?"  I told him I had.

Friend: "Yeah, he really screwed up." Not wanting to capitalize on the misfortune but also detecting a bit of cynicism in his voice, I said Schaap committed a crime by taking advantage of a young vunerable girl.

Friend: "It's not as bad as alot of people make it out to be."

I have to say I was shocked at the time, but now after thinking about the conversation (and his feelings) I'm wondering why I was shocked. Is he merely expressing the overall sentiment of present-day FBCH and HAC?

Any takers?
Click to expand...

>:(IT WAS WORSE THAN WHAT PEOPLE MAKE IT OUT TO BE.
 
AmazedbyGrace said:
RAIDER said:
Every person has their opinion.  To take the opinion of one and apply it to all is not always accurate.  I have a friend who is also at FBCH.  He wants Schaap to spend as long as possible in prison, and he wants the majority of staff members that were there with Schaap to be fired.  There is no "general consensus".
Click to expand...

While there might not be a general consensus it does seem the ones who think it really wasn't that bad are in the majority. After all, John Wilkerson was able to use the word "admire" when speaking of Schaap and wasn't booed off the platform for doing so.

And that is a shame.
Click to expand...
Now what was the context of that comment?
 
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