Throwing out the baby with the bathwater

[RAIDER]

On the HAC FFF we have a wide variety of posters.  Each one has a story.  Each of our lives have taken different turns.  The majority of us have one thing in common - we attended HAC/FBCH.  This common ground is what allows us to share thoughts and stories on the FFF.

For the majority of us there was a time when we were excited about being at HAC.  We loved the services at FBCH.  We were learning about building and serving in an IFBC.  We loved Dr. Hyles.  We had our "favorite" college teachers.  We had ministry leaders to whom we looked up.  We felt we were in the best place in the world to train for that to which God had called us.

In the first paragraph I mentioned that "each of our lives have taken different turns".  Because of this, each of us look back to our days at HAC/FBCH through different glasses.  Some look back with bitterness and hurt feelings.  If some had to do it again at the same time period in their life, they would not have attended.  Some are still 100% behind the college and church.  Some compare things now with the way they were then and are very confussed.  Some have taken the positive and left the negative.  Some want nothing to do with anything that has ever happened at HAC/FBCH.

All that to bring us to the reason for the thread.  It seems that it is human nature to totally disown anyone or any organization that we feel has "done us wrong".  We tend to throw out everything this person has said or anything for which this organization has stood.  When we get hurt this is even more prevalent.  As I have posted regularly on the FFF it seems that some have decided to (in my opinion) "throw out the baby with the bathwater". 

We reach a point where we leave the good because we are upset with the bad.  Because we feel we were disillusioned in some area or treated unfairly we decide that we need to change several areas.  Possibly we look back and don't agree with the dress standards to which we once held.  Because of this we decide that several of the things to which we held need to be changed.  It then turns to tossing out the majority of that for which we stood.  Finally it reaches a point of "if I heard it or was taught it at HAC/FBCH I want nothing to do with it". 

What I described in the above paragraph is not only what may happen to someone who is totally out of church, but more times than not, to someone who is in church and faithful.  I don't have an ax to grind with anyone on the FFF.  I love our discussions, humor, and even our disagreements.  I want us all to continue to post our true feelings.  It's what makes the FFF great.

As for me, I would do it all again.  I did not agree with everything while at HAC/FBCH in the early '80s.  I agreed with less after leaving HAC/FBCH.  I was no fan of Schaap as his years as pastor progressed.  I am not 100% HAC/FBCH, but I learned so much during my years there.  They helped form who I am today.  Many positive things in my life have transpired because of those years.  Yes, I have things about which I am critical.  There were rules and things that took place that made me wonder.  On the other hand, I learned many practical things that have helped me in my business and in my dealings with people.  I am a better person today because of my time at HAC/FBCH.

Just my opinion! 

     

 

[Baptist City Holdout]

Some compare things now with the way they were then and are very confussed. 
   

Will th ecoupons ever cease for you, Raider!!!!!!!!! After all these years, you are the one to explain it to me. I am very confussed!  BLESS GAWD!!!!!!!!

 

[Smellin Coffee]

All that to bring us to the reason for the thread.  It seems that it is human nature to totally disown anyone or any organization that we feel has "done us wrong".  We tend to throw out everything this person has said or anything for which this organization has stood.  When we get hurt this is even more prevalent.  As I have posted regularly on the FFF it seems that some have decided to (in my opinion) "throw out the baby with the bathwater". 

We reach a point where we leave the good because we are upset with the bad.  Because we feel we were disillusioned in some area or treated unfairly we decide that we need to change several areas.  Possibly we look back and don't agree with the dress standards to which we once held.  Because of this we decide that several of the things to which we held need to be changed.  It then turns to tossing out the majority of that for which we stood.  Finally it reaches a point of "if I heard it or was taught it at HAC/FBCH I want nothing to do with it". 


People deal with hardships and abuses differently. Take for example repeated sexual abuse by a parent. Some abused kids grow up and have nothing to with that parent. Some have a "civil" relationship but no intimacy. Some grow up and have such low self-value, that they may even stay. Some commit suicide or mark themselves to get rid of the pain.

Which response is right or wrong? I don't know. Should a daughter look at her father as a "good provider" and stay in the household while every day brings back memory of consistent fondling or rape?

I don't mean to be harsh at all but that is what a lot of us endured while there, some spiritually, some emotionally and some literally. For the emotional health of some, there is a NEED to throw out everything and start their life all over again. It can be a part of the healing process and lead to forgiveness toward the abuser.

And how about being lied to? When the man behind the pulpit consistenly lies in both action and words, why should people look for "nuggets" of truth on which to cling? If a cheating spouse comes home after disappearing for a weekend, when asked says he was at Disneyland, would it be wrong to suspect his integrity? Why should anything he says be trusted?

For me, there are parts I would do all over again and much I would not. Knowing what I know now, I would have rebelled and bucked the system. I would have stood for the abused. I would have created conflict where the system was wrong. I would not have pledged my loyalties. I would have questioned everything, especially those things that seemed "shady". I would have confronted those bullies, both at peer level and authority level. In a couple cases, I would have reported a situation to the legal authorities. But in the end, was it all that which has brought me to where I am? Is it that experience that created this "independence" inside me? Am I stronger because of the abuses I was witness to and experienced? I don't know. Regardless, I cannot judge how another responds to such as the difference of responses is relative to each human experience.

 

[RAIDER]

People deal with hardships and abuses differently. Take for example repeated sexual abuse by a parent. Some abused kids grow up and have nothing to with that parent. Some have a "civil" relationship but no intimacy. Some grow up and have such low self-value, that they may even stay. Some commit suicide or mark themselves to get rid of the pain.

Which response is right or wrong? I don't know. Should a daughter look at her father as a "good provider" and stay in the household while every day brings back memory of consistent fondling or rape?

I don't mean to be harsh at all but that is what a lot of us endured while there, some spiritually, some emotionally and some literally. For the emotional health of some, there is a NEED to throw out everything and start their life all over again. It can be a part of the healing process and lead to forgiveness toward the abuser.

And how about being lied to? When the man behind the pulpit consistenly lies in both action and words, why should people look for "nuggets" of truth on which to cling? If a cheating spouse comes home after disappearing for a weekend, when asked says he was at Disneyland, would it be wrong to suspect his integrity? Why should anything he says be trusted?

For me, there are parts I would do all over again and much I would not. Knowing what I know now, I would have rebelled and bucked the system. I would have stood for the abused. I would have created conflict where the system was wrong. I would not have pledged my loyalties. I would have questioned everything, especially those things that seemed "shady". I would have confronted those bullies, both at peer level and authority level. In a couple cases, I would have reported a situation to the legal authorities. But in the end, was it all that which has brought me to where I am? Is it that experience that created this "independence" inside me? Am I stronger because of the abuses I was witness to and experienced? I don't know. Regardless, I cannot judge how another responds to such as the difference of responses is relative to each human experience.

I appreciate your thoughts.  You were the child of HAC faculty members.  You grew up in FBCH.  Because of that you heard (and saw) things that most of us did not.  Your post is from this angle.

I came to HAC from another state.  While I was a student at HAC I did not see or hear of any of the issues of which you speak.  This makes it easier for me to view things as I do in my OP.     

 

[Smellin Coffee]

People deal with hardships and abuses differently. Take for example repeated sexual abuse by a parent. Some abused kids grow up and have nothing to with that parent. Some have a "civil" relationship but no intimacy. Some grow up and have such low self-value, that they may even stay. Some commit suicide or mark themselves to get rid of the pain.

Which response is right or wrong? I don't know. Should a daughter look at her father as a "good provider" and stay in the household while every day brings back memory of consistent fondling or rape?

I don't mean to be harsh at all but that is what a lot of us endured while there, some spiritually, some emotionally and some literally. For the emotional health of some, there is a NEED to throw out everything and start their life all over again. It can be a part of the healing process and lead to forgiveness toward the abuser.

And how about being lied to? When the man behind the pulpit consistenly lies in both action and words, why should people look for "nuggets" of truth on which to cling? If a cheating spouse comes home after disappearing for a weekend, when asked says he was at Disneyland, would it be wrong to suspect his integrity? Why should anything he says be trusted?

For me, there are parts I would do all over again and much I would not. Knowing what I know now, I would have rebelled and bucked the system. I would have stood for the abused. I would have created conflict where the system was wrong. I would not have pledged my loyalties. I would have questioned everything, especially those things that seemed "shady". I would have confronted those bullies, both at peer level and authority level. In a couple cases, I would have reported a situation to the legal authorities. But in the end, was it all that which has brought me to where I am? Is it that experience that created this "independence" inside me? Am I stronger because of the abuses I was witness to and experienced? I don't know. Regardless, I cannot judge how another responds to such as the difference of responses is relative to each human experience.

I appreciate your thoughts.  You were the child of HAC faculty members.  You grew up in FBCH.  Because of that you heard (and saw) things that most of us did not.  Your post is from this angle.

I came to HAC from another state.  While I was a student at HAC I did not see or hear of any of the issues of which you speak.  This makes it easier for me to view things as I do in my OP.   

FYI, I didn't take the OP as being critical of those with a different perspective than yours.

It has taken me several years out of it and through the bitterness stage (yes, I DID go through that) to realize that there are some who saw what I did, knew what I knew yet decided to stay. The "black and white" part of me was critical of them. Why would they stay knowing what they know? Then one day it dawned on me that although they may have seen what I did, their perception was theirs and I could not understand it. In essence, their staying was a decision they chose to make from their own perspective just like my perspective encouraged that I leave.

So over the years I've tried to drop my critical spirit (though it does pop up now and again) and let people who are there and "in the know" but have chosen to remain, live by their own principles. I won't have to answer to God for their actions and I certainly don't know if God would tell them to leave or stay so I try not to be critical of those who decided differently than I.

Does that make me a stinkin' compromiser? 

 

[RAIDER]

FYI, I didn't take the OP as being critical of those with a different perspective than yours.

It has taken me several years out of it and through the bitterness stage (yes, I DID go through that) to realize that there are some who saw what I did, knew what I knew yet decided to stay. The "black and white" part of me was critical of them. Why would they stay knowing what they know? Then one day it dawned on me that although they may have seen what I did, their perception was theirs and I could not understand it. In essence, their staying was a decision they chose to make from their own perspective just like my perspective encouraged that I leave.

So over the years I've tried to drop my critical spirit (though it does pop up now and again) and let people who are there and "in the know" but have chosen to remain, live by their own principles. I won't have to answer to God for their actions and I certainly don't know if God would tell them to leave or stay so I try not to be critical of those who decided differently than I.

Does that make me a stinkin' compromiser? 

Your post was not taken as anything critical of my perspective.  You and I can go back and forth and never offend each other.  Some of your points probably deserve their own thread.  Future ideas!    And, yes, my friend, you are a stinkin' compromising liberal!!

 

[IFB X-Files]

I have not thrown out all the "baby".  I ripped a few pages from Dave Hyles' youth book to keep my fridge and washing machine level.

 

[lnf]

People deal with hardships and abuses differently. Take for example repeated sexual abuse by a parent. Some abused kids grow up and have nothing to with that parent. Some have a "civil" relationship but no intimacy. Some grow up and have such low self-value, that they may even stay. Some commit suicide or mark themselves to get rid of the pain.

Which response is right or wrong? I don't know. Should a daughter look at her father as a "good provider" and stay in the household while every day brings back memory of consistent fondling or rape?

I don't mean to be harsh at all but that is what a lot of us endured while there, some spiritually, some emotionally and some literally. For the emotional health of some, there is a NEED to throw out everything and start their life all over again. It can be a part of the healing process and lead to forgiveness toward the abuser.

And how about being lied to? When the man behind the pulpit consistenly lies in both action and words, why should people look for "nuggets" of truth on which to cling? If a cheating spouse comes home after disappearing for a weekend, when asked says he was at Disneyland, would it be wrong to suspect his integrity? Why should anything he says be trusted?

For me, there are parts I would do all over again and much I would not. Knowing what I know now, I would have rebelled and bucked the system. I would have stood for the abused. I would have created conflict where the system was wrong. I would not have pledged my loyalties. I would have questioned everything, especially those things that seemed "shady". I would have confronted those bullies, both at peer level and authority level. In a couple cases, I would have reported a situation to the legal authorities. But in the end, was it all that which has brought me to where I am? Is it that experience that created this "independence" inside me? Am I stronger because of the abuses I was witness to and experienced? I don't know. Regardless, I cannot judge how another responds to such as the difference of responses is relative to each human experience.

I appreciate your thoughts.  You were the child of HAC faculty members.  You grew up in FBCH.  Because of that you heard (and saw) things that most of us did not.  Your post is from this angle.

I came to HAC from another state.  While I was a student at HAC I did not see or hear of any of the issues of which you speak.  This makes it easier for me to view things as I do in my OP.   

FYI, I didn't take the OP as being critical of those with a different perspective than yours.

It has taken me several years out of it and through the bitterness stage (yes, I DID go through that) to realize that there are some who saw what I did, knew what I knew yet decided to stay. The "black and white" part of me was critical of them. Why would they stay knowing what they know? Then one day it dawned on me that although they may have seen what I did, their perception was theirs and I could not understand it. In essence, their staying was a decision they chose to make from their own perspective just like my perspective encouraged that I leave.

So over the years I've tried to drop my critical spirit (though it does pop up now and again) and let people who are there and "in the know" but have chosen to remain, live by their own principles. I won't have to answer to God for their actions and I certainly don't know if God would tell them to leave or stay so I try not to be critical of those who decided differently than I.

Does that make me a stinkin' compromiser? 

Mr. Coffee ( I love calling you that!), what you said in this post speaks truth.  You're walking your own walk and letting others walk theirs.  That's what we should be doing.  Sure, we can and should discuss things.  We might change an opinion or two, or even just to agree to disagree...but we are all still siblings in Christ.

God bless you, my brother!

God bless you, my brother!